From chappa at u.washington.edu Sun Aug 1 08:49:34 2010 From: chappa at u.washington.edu (Eduardo Chappa) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Re: Sort question on ALPINE 2.00 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, 31 Jul 2010, Joe(theWordy)Philbrook wrote: :) OK I located the other rule section in my .pinerc, and due to the length of :) the line I copied the section to the attached file. Thank you for the copy of the rule. This is a problem in Alpine, which is actually quite old (it comes from Pine). The problem is that the rule is not expanded correctly, and so Alpine parses your rule incorrectly. There is a "$" sign in your rule. This character triggers a part of the code that expands environment variables. The problem is that the code that expands variables assumes that "$h" (as appears in your rule) ends with a space, or is at the end of the line, and because none of this happens, Alpine keeps looking for in the rule for the end of the name of the variable. Now if you look in the line that contains that $h, you will see that it is followed by /FLDTYPE=SPEC/FOLDER=Enligh.... and so no space is found for the remaining 127 characters, until Alpine gives up trying to find the name of the environment variable. So Alpine gets the environment variable incorrectly. But you might argue that you never intended to input an environment variable in the first place, since what you meant to input was "$ort tHread", instead. Since that was your intention, you should have written $$h, instead. So your problem will go away if you replace $h by $$h. In regards to the real problem that exists, I still do not know what to make of it. I'll have to think about it longer.... -- Eduardo http://staff.washington.edu/chappa/alpine/ From tk-gmane+at at idpax.com Mon Aug 2 11:26:44 2010 From: tk-gmane+at at idpax.com (Tim K. (Gmane)) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] no message status updates from gmail Message-ID: Using Alpine 2.0 with Gmail IMAP. At the same time I use Thunderbird and the Gmail web interface against the same Gmail account. While Thunderbird picks up changes made via Alpine or the web interface, Alpine does not get any message status updates made via other clients until the Inbox is closed and reopened. E.g. if I mark a new message as read either via Thunderbird or the web interface, the message still shows as new in Alpine. It seems to me that Alpine does not interact with Gmail IMAP very well. Yes, I read that the Gmail IMAP server is not a true IMAP server, it doesn't fully implement the specs, etc. but that's not the point here, it's the user experience. Hopefully future versions of Alpine will make an effort to work around Gmail issues, just like Thunderbird and other clients do. TK From fhdata at unm.edu Mon Aug 2 13:09:09 2010 From: fhdata at unm.edu (FHDATA) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] alpine 2.00 disabling the greeting text In-Reply-To: <4C4762E3.1090701@unm.edu> References: <4C460148.8040806@unm.edu> <4C460633.5090101@redhat.com> <4C47296F.1000005@unm.edu> <4C4762E3.1090701@unm.edu> Message-ID: <4C5725E5.1070809@unm.edu> FHDATA wrote, On 07/21/2010 03:13 PM: > Benjamin R. Haskell wrote, On 07/21/2010 11:42 AM: >> On Wed, 21 Jul 2010, FHDATA wrote: >> >>> Jeffrey Bastian wrote, On 07/20/2010 02:25 PM: >>>> On 07/20/2010 03:04 PM, FHDATA wrote: >>>>> Is there a way to disable the greeting text users see when they >>>>> launch alpine for the first time? >>>> >>>> >>>> alpine uses the last-version-used variable in your ~/.pinerc file to >>>> determine which message to display (first time user, major version >>>> upgrade, etc.) >>>> > > =6.00 >>>> >>>> pine 1.0 through 4.x are versions 1.0 through 4.x (no surprises), >>>> alpine 1.x is version 5.x, and alpine 2.x is 6.x. >>>> >>>> Jeff >>> >>> I would like to implement that system-wide for all users. >>> >>> According to paragraph below, if I set new-version-threshold=7.00 >>> the greeting text should not appear. Alas, it does .... >>> >>> I do it in /etc/pine.conf and /etc/pine.conf.fixed to no avail. >>> >>> I actually did try many variations& permutation of values for >>> new-version-threshold (1,1.00,2,2.0,7.0,9.99 ,etc)... Maybe my >>> "version string" is wrong? >> >> Maybe it can't be overridden systemwide (which makes sense). > I am under impression that where applicable, as is the case for > last-version-used, tech-note states that it is for (personal) > ~/.pinerc and that when I see nothing in that regard for the > new-version-threshold then I assume it is for system-wide. > Maybe I am reading it incorrectly. > > >> Can you >> put it in a per-user .pinerc in a skeleton dir? (I assume not - since >> you probably have existing users.) > > true. > > >> >> What are you trying to accomplish, though, in the first place? > we have a populous pine users and some are not technically savvy > and may "freak out" seeing the message .... > > >> >> Alpine handles character sets much differently than Pine. It would be >> useful for your users to know that they're using a different program >> than they might assume they are. (e.g. Why am I seeing question marks >> instead of smart quotes in emails?) > > > >> >> And unless they're forced to use Pine/Alpine, I'd think a screen like >> that wouldn't be 'scary' for someone who uses Pine/Alpine in the first >> place. >> > > > Generally, it'd be nice to do something about the greeting text but > it's not the end of the world thing.... > > Considering that (to me) new-version-threshold is clearly meant to be > used by sys admins, I really would like to know why is it broken > or [correct way of using it ;-)] This is just an update. I did compile the source. Similar to rpm, the compiled version of alpine also ignores the directive new-version-threshold in pine.conf and/or pine.conf.fixed ... Any config change at the source-code you know I can do to disable the greeting text, let me know. thank you, f, > > > Thanks, > f, > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Alpine-info mailing list > Alpine-info@u.washington.edu > http://mailman13.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/alpine-info From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Mon Aug 2 13:16:35 2010 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] no message status updates from gmail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Aug 2010, Tim K. (Gmane) wrote: > Using Alpine 2.0 with Gmail IMAP. At the same time I use Thunderbird and > the Gmail web interface against the same Gmail account. While > Thunderbird picks up changes made via Alpine or the web interface, > Alpine does not get any message status updates made via other clients > until the Inbox is closed and reopened. E.g. if I mark a new message as > read either via Thunderbird or the web interface, the message still > shows as new in Alpine. > > It seems to me that Alpine does not interact with Gmail IMAP very well. > Yes, I read that the Gmail IMAP server is not a true IMAP server, it > doesn't fully implement the specs, etc. but that's not the point here, > it's the user experience. > > Hopefully future versions of Alpine will make an effort to work around > Gmail issues, just like Thunderbird and other clients do. When Mark Crispin was on the list, he often pointed out that Google makes money from the web interface to Gmail, because of advertising, but it only loses on POP3 and IMAP. So Google is not motivated to fix its broken IMAP. I would have thought Alpine couldn't fix the Gmail IMAP problem, but if Tbird does it, I guess it can be done. What specifically does Tbird do right (using IMAP, not POP) that Alpine isn't doing? Mike From gem at rellim.com Mon Aug 2 13:25:49 2010 From: gem at rellim.com (Gary E. Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] no message status updates from gmail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Yo Mike! On Mon, 2 Aug 2010, Mike Miller wrote: > What specifically does Tbird do right (using IMAP, not POP) that Alpine isn't > doing? Maintaining their code? RGDS GARY - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gary E. Miller Rellim 109 NW Wilmington Ave., Suite E, Bend, OR 97701 gem@rellim.com Tel:+1(541)382-8588 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFMVynRBmnRqz71OvMRAncSAJ42xCXq7FtMTa9lgaBlKiGk3u7ezgCbBbyb dJCdpMg9QuCL1v0xicJQSe8= =70bd -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From bikefridaywalter at gmail.com Mon Aug 2 13:32:26 2010 From: bikefridaywalter at gmail.com (bikefridaywalter@gmail.com) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Incoming Folders work great for IMAP, but not for INBOX Message-ID: I'm using incoming folders with a bunch of Gmail accouns and they work great. I can send fine with my local account and they get sent to the right saved folders, but my INBOX does not display any of the messages that I know are there (I can access it with Mutt or Squirrel Mail). There does not seem to be an inbox file in my mail folder which is curious. I've tried to create it (using "inbox" and "INBOX" as the file name) to no avail. Looking at my .pinerc, it does not seem that there were any changes that would affect such things. I'm frankly stumped. From morgan at orst.edu Mon Aug 2 13:45:54 2010 From: morgan at orst.edu (Andrew Morgan) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] no message status updates from gmail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Aug 2010, Gary E. Miller wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Yo Mike! > > On Mon, 2 Aug 2010, Mike Miller wrote: > >> What specifically does Tbird do right (using IMAP, not POP) that Alpine isn't >> doing? > > Maintaining their code? With helpful comments like that, it's no wonder Alpine doesn't work "fully" with Gmail. New code doesn't appear out of thin air. Someone that cares about Gmail compatibility will need to step up. Andy From tk-gmane+at at idpax.com Mon Aug 2 14:12:46 2010 From: tk-gmane+at at idpax.com (Tim K. (Gmane)) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Re: no message status updates from gmail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > What specifically does Tbird do right (using IMAP, not POP) that Alpine > isn't doing? 1. Alpine loses connection to Gmail and then just shows "INBOX closed". It should attempt to re-connect. I never see TB complaining like this many times a day, unless Gmail is hard down. 2. Alpine does not make use of the IMAP IDLE command. I know it's controversial, but it works fine in TB, I see folder updates quickly. 3. Alpine does not get message flag updates when they happen through another client: marking a message important/star, marking a message read, answered, etc. TB doesn't have such problems. 4. It would be nice for Alpine to sync contacts with Google Contacts. TB can do it via an addon. Maybe Alpine needs a plugin system. 5. Alpine does not have a "move to Trash or Archive" on delete. I think these are all feature a modern mail client should support these days. TK From alpine at benizi.com Mon Aug 2 14:35:20 2010 From: alpine at benizi.com (Benjamin R. Haskell) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Re: no message status updates from gmail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Aug 2010, Tim K. (Gmane) wrote: > > > What specifically does Tbird do right (using IMAP, not POP) that > > Alpine isn't doing? > > 1. Alpine loses connection to Gmail and then just shows "INBOX > closed". It should attempt to re-connect. I never see TB complaining > like this many times a day, unless Gmail is hard down. This is one of the fundamental flaws in Gmail's IMAP server. It doesn't handle persistent connections very well. (The other biggies I can think of offhand are 'Size of Message to Save Shrank' and the now-improved impedance mismatch between Gmail tags and IMAP folders [improved if you choose an option via Gmail's web i/f].) But, as pointed out, they don't have a financial incentive to fix it. Especially because this is only problematic for 'connected'-style clients, which is an increasingly-short list. Thunderbird and most other clients are inherently 'disconnected' (They fetch mail, and then disconnect) ... > 2. Alpine does not make use of the IMAP IDLE command. I know it's > controversial, but it works fine in TB, I see folder updates quickly. ... with the exception of 'IDLE'. Which Alpine, as a connected client, is unlikely(IMO) to ever support. > 3. Alpine does not get message flag updates when they happen through > another client: marking a message important/star, marking a message > read, answered, etc. TB doesn't have such problems. If you perform any operations on the folder, it gets the updates, AFAICT. I think 'any operations' includes the underadvertised 'Ctrl+L' = refresh. Not true if the connection's hosed, though. [INBOX(closed)]. > 4. It would be nice for Alpine to sync contacts with Google Contacts. > TB can do it via an addon. Maybe Alpine needs a plugin system. Also unlikely (again, IMO) given how Alpine works and how little dev power/motivation there is now. > 5. Alpine does not have a "move to Trash or Archive" on delete. Not really an issue with the way Gmail maps to IMAP, though. Deletion from [Gmail]/All Mail is the 'one true delete', IIRC. All other deletion is just tag-removal. (Where the most-used 'tag' via Alpine is probably 'Inbox'.) > I think these are all feature a modern mail client should support these days. And I think that the state of modern mail clients is the reason most of us prefer (re)alpine. (Not saying "Oh no, new features". Just saying "New features require dev manpower".) -- Best, Ben From rick+alpine at helix.nih.gov Mon Aug 2 14:37:17 2010 From: rick+alpine at helix.nih.gov (Rick Troxel) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Re: no message status updates from gmail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Today (08/02/10) at 14:12 -0700, Tim K. (Gmane) wrote: > 5. Alpine does not have a "move to Trash or Archive" on delete. It seems to me that deleting when a message is moved (to Trash, Archive or whatever) accomplishes the same thing. For this, unselect "Save Will Not Delete" in the Configuration menu. With best regards, -- Rick Troxel, Helix Systems Staff rick@helix.nih.gov 301/435-2983 From tk-gmane+at at idpax.com Mon Aug 2 14:57:52 2010 From: tk-gmane+at at idpax.com (Tim K. (Gmane)) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Re: no message status updates from gmail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >> 3. Alpine does not get message flag updates when they happen through >> another client: marking a message important/star, marking a message >> read, answered, etc. TB doesn't have such problems. > > If you perform any operations on the folder, it gets the updates, > AFAICT. I think 'any operations' includes the underadvertised 'Ctrl+L' > = refresh. Not true if the connection's hosed, though. > [INBOX(closed)]. I tried Ctrl+L and anything else I could think of. None of the message flags get updated, even if new mail comes in, or I delete some of the messages (deleted messages do go away though). I have been using pine for ~15 years, it's sad to see it become a thing of the past as it is starting to no longer meet my needs. TK From jtwdyp at ttlc.net Mon Aug 2 14:58:48 2010 From: jtwdyp at ttlc.net (Joe(theWordy)Philbrook) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Re: Re: Sort question on ALPINE 2.00 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It would appear that on Aug 1, Eduardo Chappa did say: > On Sat, 31 Jul 2010, Joe(theWordy)Philbrook wrote: > > :) OK I located the other rule section in my .pinerc, and due to the length of > :) the line I copied the section to the attached file. > > Thank you for the copy of the rule. This is a problem in Alpine, which is > actually quite old (it comes from Pine). > > The problem is that the rule is not expanded correctly, and so Alpine > parses your rule incorrectly. There is a "$" sign in your rule. This > character triggers a part of the code that expands environment variables. > The problem is that the code that expands variables assumes that "$h" (as > appears in your rule) ends with a space, or is at the end of the line, and > because none of this happens, Alpine keeps looking for in the rule for the > end of the name of the variable. Now if you look in the line that contains > that $h, you will see that it is followed by /FLDTYPE=SPEC/FOLDER=Enligh.... > and so no space is found for the remaining 127 characters, until Alpine > gives up trying to find the name of the environment variable. So Alpine > gets the environment variable incorrectly. > > But you might argue that you never intended to input an environment > variable in the first place, since what you meant to input was "$ort > tHread", instead. Since that was your intention, you should have written > $$h, instead. So your problem will go away if you replace $h by $$h. > > In regards to the real problem that exists, I still do not know what to > make of it. I'll have to think about it longer.... Well I still don't quite understand... I never touched that part of my .pinerc by hand. I used the main->setup->rule->other configuration tui to set that rule. And because I'm lazy, ALL the selected folders were selected by using ^T to select foldernames... But if the actual problem is as easy as closing alpine, vim ~/.pinerc, finding that $h and adding a 2nd "$" then that's an easy fix. I don't need to learn the syntax of the actual filter line to do that... THANKS! If this problem has been there since pine, than I doubt there's an easy fix to prevent such improper rule encoding. But if you decide to spend the time to rewrite some of this, would you consider the basic choices of folder types (aside from a list of specific folders) the current choices are: any, email, & news... I can't speak for others but if I could apply rules to folders based on local-folders & remote-folders, I'd never bother maintaining a list of such folders. I'd simply tell it to sort all remote folders by arrival to avoid waiting for the server, and to sort by all local folders by thread Then I'd probably try to override that by defining a sort by arrival for my sent mail folder... But for now, "$$h" is easy enough. Thanks again! -- | --- ___ | <0> <-> Joe (theWordy) Philbrook | ^ J(tWdy)P | ~\___/~ <> From gem at rellim.com Mon Aug 2 15:02:48 2010 From: gem at rellim.com (Gary E. Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] no message status updates from gmail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Yo Andrew! On Mon, 2 Aug 2010, Andrew Morgan wrote: > > > What specifically does Tbird do right (using IMAP, not POP) that Alpine > > > isn't > > > doing? > > > > Maintaining their code? > > With helpful comments like that, it's no wonder Alpine doesn't work "fully" > with Gmail. New code doesn't appear out of thin air. Someone that cares > about Gmail compatibility will need to step up. I see you got my point. RGDS GARY - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gary E. Miller Rellim 109 NW Wilmington Ave., Suite E, Bend, OR 97701 gem@rellim.com Tel:+1(541)382-8588 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFMV0CMBmnRqz71OvMRAutlAKCo6W8wOIj7fzkogbMY42oMCFGkDwCg4brZ C0LmYPCVY5yuB6Z6YkbWSTA= =hdQF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jlb17 at duke.edu Mon Aug 2 15:32:23 2010 From: jlb17 at duke.edu (Joshua Baker-LePain) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] no message status updates from gmail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Aug 2010 at 3:16pm, Mike Miller wrote > On Mon, 2 Aug 2010, Tim K. (Gmane) wrote: > >> It seems to me that Alpine does not interact with Gmail IMAP very well. >> Yes, I read that the Gmail IMAP server is not a true IMAP server, it >> doesn't fully implement the specs, etc. but that's not the point here, it's >> the user experience. >> >> Hopefully future versions of Alpine will make an effort to work around >> Gmail issues, just like Thunderbird and other clients do. > > When Mark Crispin was on the list, he often pointed out that Google makes > money from the web interface to Gmail, because of advertising, but it only > loses on POP3 and IMAP. So Google is not motivated to fix its broken IMAP. > I would have thought Alpine couldn't fix the Gmail IMAP problem, but if Tbird > does it, I guess it can be done. > > What specifically does Tbird do right (using IMAP, not POP) that Alpine isn't > doing? I believe what Tbird does (note: not what it does *right*) is "not follow the IMAP standard". I for one rather appreciate alpine as a (perhaps *the*) standards compliant IMAP MUA, and would cast my vote for that not changing. -- Joshua Baker-LePain QB3 Shared Cluster Sysadmin UCSF From tk-gmane+at at idpax.com Mon Aug 2 15:43:48 2010 From: tk-gmane+at at idpax.com (Tim K. (Gmane)) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Re: no message status updates from gmail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >> What specifically does Tbird do right (using IMAP, not POP) that >> Alpine isn't doing? > > I believe what Tbird does (note: not what it does *right*) is "not > follow the IMAP standard". I for one rather appreciate alpine as a > (perhaps *the*) standards compliant IMAP MUA, and would cast my vote for > that not changing. Standards are nice, but we should not kill the user experience just so we claim we are standards compliant. These are tools and they need to be useful to the end user, they are not written just to fulfill a standards checklist. TK From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Mon Aug 2 16:00:57 2010 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] no message status updates from gmail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Aug 2010, Joshua Baker-LePain wrote: > On Mon, 2 Aug 2010 at 3:16pm, Mike Miller wrote > >> On Mon, 2 Aug 2010, Tim K. (Gmane) wrote: >> >>> It seems to me that Alpine does not interact with Gmail IMAP very >>> well. Yes, I read that the Gmail IMAP server is not a true IMAP >>> server, it doesn't fully implement the specs, etc. but that's not the >>> point here, it's the user experience. >>> >>> Hopefully future versions of Alpine will make an effort to work around >>> Gmail issues, just like Thunderbird and other clients do. >> >> When Mark Crispin was on the list, he often pointed out that Google >> makes money from the web interface to Gmail, because of advertising, >> but it only loses on POP3 and IMAP. So Google is not motivated to fix >> its broken IMAP. I would have thought Alpine couldn't fix the Gmail >> IMAP problem, but if Tbird does it, I guess it can be done. >> >> What specifically does Tbird do right (using IMAP, not POP) that Alpine >> isn't doing? > > I believe what Tbird does (note: not what it does *right*) is "not > follow the IMAP standard". I for one rather appreciate alpine as a > (perhaps *the*) standards compliant IMAP MUA, and would cast my vote for > that not changing. FYI (or disclaimer?) - I do use Gmail SMTP and I use fetchmail with POP3 to download messages to my Ubuntu box. I also like Google services and appreciate their generally friendly approach to FOSS. That said, I very rarely use IMAP to access Gmail archives because I have them on my local machine, and I do everything there, but I do see the advantage of making Alpine play well with Gmail IMAP. It doesn't have to mean that Alpine becomes "nonstandard" in the way that it does IMAP with other systems, does it? Wouldn't it be possible to build in special Gmail IMAP functionality? Yes, I'm not going to do it, but I'm just pointing out that there is a third option, at least in theory. I don't work for Google, or know anyone who does, but they seem to be providing the best free email on the 'net these days and it would be nice for Alpine to work well with them. Our university (U Minnesota) is currently transitioning from running their own email services to relying on Google to provide Gmail (with a .umn.edu domain) to all of our students, faculty and staff. Mike From morgan at orst.edu Mon Aug 2 16:57:09 2010 From: morgan at orst.edu (Andrew Morgan) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] no message status updates from gmail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Aug 2010, Mike Miller wrote: > On Mon, 2 Aug 2010, Joshua Baker-LePain wrote: > >> On Mon, 2 Aug 2010 at 3:16pm, Mike Miller wrote >> >>> On Mon, 2 Aug 2010, Tim K. (Gmane) wrote: >>> >>>> It seems to me that Alpine does not interact with Gmail IMAP very well. >>>> Yes, I read that the Gmail IMAP server is not a true IMAP server, it >>>> doesn't fully implement the specs, etc. but that's not the point here, >>>> it's the user experience. >>>> >>>> Hopefully future versions of Alpine will make an effort to work around >>>> Gmail issues, just like Thunderbird and other clients do. >>> >>> When Mark Crispin was on the list, he often pointed out that Google makes >>> money from the web interface to Gmail, because of advertising, but it only >>> loses on POP3 and IMAP. So Google is not motivated to fix its broken >>> IMAP. I would have thought Alpine couldn't fix the Gmail IMAP problem, but >>> if Tbird does it, I guess it can be done. >>> >>> What specifically does Tbird do right (using IMAP, not POP) that Alpine >>> isn't doing? >> >> I believe what Tbird does (note: not what it does *right*) is "not follow >> the IMAP standard". I for one rather appreciate alpine as a (perhaps >> *the*) standards compliant IMAP MUA, and would cast my vote for that not >> changing. > > > FYI (or disclaimer?) - I do use Gmail SMTP and I use fetchmail with POP3 to > download messages to my Ubuntu box. I also like Google services and > appreciate their generally friendly approach to FOSS. > > That said, I very rarely use IMAP to access Gmail archives because I have > them on my local machine, and I do everything there, but I do see the > advantage of making Alpine play well with Gmail IMAP. It doesn't have to > mean that Alpine becomes "nonstandard" in the way that it does IMAP with > other systems, does it? Wouldn't it be possible to build in special Gmail > IMAP functionality? Yes, I'm not going to do it, but I'm just pointing out > that there is a third option, at least in theory. > > I don't work for Google, or know anyone who does, but they seem to be > providing the best free email on the 'net these days and it would be nice for > Alpine to work well with them. Our university (U Minnesota) is currently > transitioning from running their own email services to relying on Google to > provide Gmail (with a .umn.edu domain) to all of our students, faculty and > staff. Back to the original problem - someone needs to figure out what combination of IMAP commands will provide the updated message status flags. Perhaps Thunderbird actually calls FETCH (FLAGS) on every message all the time? Andy From dougb at FreeBSD.org Mon Aug 2 17:43:12 2010 From: dougb at FreeBSD.org (Doug Barton) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Re: no message status updates from gmail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C576620.8000105@FreeBSD.org> On 08/02/10 14:57, Tim K. (Gmane) wrote: > >>> 3. Alpine does not get message flag updates when they happen through >>> another client: marking a message important/star, marking a message >>> read, answered, etc. TB doesn't have such problems. >> >> If you perform any operations on the folder, it gets the updates, >> AFAICT. I think 'any operations' includes the underadvertised 'Ctrl+L' >> = refresh. Not true if the connection's hosed, though. >> [INBOX(closed)]. > > > I tried Ctrl+L and anything else I could think of. None of the message > flags get updated, even if new mail comes in, or I delete some of the > messages (deleted messages do go away though). Have you tried eXpunge? Also, have you defined your inbox as a stayopen folder? Doug -- Improve the effectiveness of your Internet presence with a domain name makeover! http://SupersetSolutions.com/ Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. -- Pablo Picasso From ruskie at codemages.net Mon Aug 2 22:31:57 2010 From: ruskie at codemages.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andra=C5=BE_'ruskie'_Levstik?=) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Re: no message status updates from gmail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: :2010-08-02T14:12:Tim K. (Gmane): > > > What specifically does Tbird do right (using IMAP, not POP) that Alpine > > isn't doing? > > 1. Alpine loses connection to Gmail and then just shows "INBOX closed". It > should attempt to re-connect. I never see TB complaining like this many times > a day, unless Gmail is hard down. Any $PROVIDER specific fixes should be marked as $provider-hack and stuffed under the hidden settings of the configuration. Otherwise I see no problem in adding any such support if someone produces a patch that works. > 2. Alpine does not make use of the IMAP IDLE command. I know it's > controversial, but it works fine in TB, I see folder updates quickly. Feel free to provide a patch with an option to enable/disable it. > 4. It would be nice for Alpine to sync contacts with Google Contacts. TB can > do it via an addon. Maybe Alpine needs a plugin system. Feel free to implement one. > > 5. Alpine does not have a "move to Trash or Archive" on delete. > Sure it has. But it requires a filter to do so. > I think these are all feature a modern mail client should support these days. > I believe the main reason tbird doesn't have issues is because it uses it's own cache and keeps reconnecting. The main reason I like alpine is because it doesn't have a cache. It could do with some decent reconnecting code if it detects that it got booted from the server though. -- Andra? 'ruskie' Levstik Source Mage GNU/Linux Games/Xorg grimoire guru Re-Alpine Coordinator http://sourceforge.net/projects/re-alpine/ Geek/Hacker/Tinker Be sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth. From brennan at columbia.edu Tue Aug 3 06:43:06 2010 From: brennan at columbia.edu (Joseph Brennan) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] no message status updates from gmail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mike Miller wrote: > When Mark Crispin was on the list, he often pointed out that Google makes > money from the web interface to Gmail, because of advertising Actually they make money by data-mining your mail and adding the results to the dossier they build on you to target ads on other web sites that carry Google ads. The ads on Gmail itself are just icing on the cake. So it does pay for them to bring in people who don't use webmail. They want to scan your email too. The IMAP brokenness might be from designing to empirical client behavior instead of to standard. If Thunderbird and Outlook work with their server... done. Iterations of this can cause a drift away from standards. We've seen it in web page design. Joseph Brennan Columbia University Information Technology From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Tue Aug 3 13:24:34 2010 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] no message status updates from gmail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Aug 2010, Joseph Brennan wrote: > Mike Miller wrote: > >> When Mark Crispin was on the list, he often pointed out that Google >> makes money from the web interface to Gmail, because of advertising > > Actually they make money by data-mining your mail and adding the results > to the dossier they build on you to target ads on other web sites that > carry Google ads. The ads on Gmail itself are just icing on the cake. > > So it does pay for them to bring in people who don't use webmail. > They want to scan your email too. That's a very good point. Thanks. > The IMAP brokenness might be from designing to empirical client behavior > instead of to standard. If Thunderbird and Outlook work with their > server... done. Iterations of this can cause a drift away from > standards. We've seen it in web page design. Do you mean that Google might be writing IMAP code so that it works well with Tbird and Outlook? I would have to guess that the driving source then becomes Microsoft. I don't know what we can do. This is a game where the little guy just can't win. If there were some body enforcing standards compliance, that could do it, but I think there never will be such a thing for IMAP or web page design. I like the idea of having a check box for "work well with Gmail's broken IMAP server." That way we don't give in but we also don't suffer needlessly and sacrifice even more user base to the noncompliant developers. Mike From mattack at apple.com Tue Aug 3 13:38:02 2010 From: mattack at apple.com (Matt Ackeret) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: gmail/ads Re: [Alpine-info] no message status updates from gmail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Aug 2010, Joseph Brennan wrote: > Mike Miller wrote: > >> When Mark Crispin was on the list, he often pointed out that Google makes >> money from the web interface to Gmail, because of advertising > > Actually they make money by data-mining your mail and adding the > results to the dossier they build on you to target ads on other > web sites that carry Google ads. The ads on Gmail itself are just > icing on the cake. Tangent: I've always wondered why they couldn't still have ads even when using POP/IMAP. Couldn't they "just" do something like add another attachment to the email that had the ad? (I guess to change, it would actually have to add the ads 'live' when the IMAP client was querying the email.) They're already data-mining the email, seems like they could do that. Note: I personally hate ads (generally).. I've used Tivos and VCRs for literally decades to avoid most TV ads (but will rewind to watch entertaining ads -- once..) Newspaper ads are obviously easy to skip over, and I do use coupons. While those are ads, they're also saving me money, and the vast vast majority of the time I'm using them on something I already buy (i.e. I can't think of a time when a coupon got me to change brands beyond a single-time coupon-induced purchase). sorry, way tangential, I just wondered why they couldn't still have ads even in a non-web UI. (and btw, despite my hate of ads above, I do accept them on things like gmail or most web sites. I have Flash blockers, and admittedly have an ad blocker installed in Safari currently, but I actually think it's not blocking most ads, I haven't been configuring it.) From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Tue Aug 3 13:52:46 2010 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: gmail/ads Re: [Alpine-info] no message status updates from gmail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Aug 2010, Matt Ackeret wrote: > On Tue, 3 Aug 2010, Joseph Brennan wrote: > >> Mike Miller wrote: >> >>> When Mark Crispin was on the list, he often pointed out that Google >>> makes money from the web interface to Gmail, because of advertising >> >> Actually they make money by data-mining your mail and adding the >> results to the dossier they build on you to target ads on other web >> sites that carry Google ads. The ads on Gmail itself are just icing on >> the cake. > > Tangent: I've always wondered why they couldn't still have ads even when > using POP/IMAP. Couldn't they "just" do something like add another > attachment to the email that had the ad? (I guess to change, it would > actually have to add the ads 'live' when the IMAP client was querying > the email.) If they could, and they did, then I wouldn't use Gmail. I don't want to send ads to people, so I'd find another way to get the job done. Maybe that's why they don't do it. This brings up a broader issue for web developers and others trying to make some money on the web -- too many obvious ads drive would-be customers away, but too few ads reduces revenue. I guess the goal is to maximize clicks on ads. Google knows what the heck they are doing, and I think they try to make the ads on Gmail subtle, with not many per page, then bring in a lot of page views, and maybe that is what works best for profit (click) maximization: Fewer and subtler ads but with many page views. Mike From mattack at apple.com Tue Aug 3 15:23:11 2010 From: mattack at apple.com (Matt Ackeret) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: gmail/ads Re: [Alpine-info] no message status updates from gmail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Aug 2010, Mike Miller wrote: > On Tue, 3 Aug 2010, Matt Ackeret wrote: > >> On Tue, 3 Aug 2010, Joseph Brennan wrote: >> >>> Mike Miller wrote: >>> >>>> When Mark Crispin was on the list, he often pointed out that Google makes >>>> money from the web interface to Gmail, because of advertising >>> >>> Actually they make money by data-mining your mail and adding the results to >>> the dossier they build on you to target ads on other web sites that carry >>> Google ads. The ads on Gmail itself are just icing on the cake. >> >> Tangent: I've always wondered why they couldn't still have ads even when using >> POP/IMAP. Couldn't they "just" do something like add another attachment to >> the email that had the ad? (I guess to change, it would actually have to add >> the ads 'live' when the IMAP client was querying the email.) > > If they could, and they did, then I wouldn't use Gmail. I don't want to send I meant to you reading gmail, with IMAP, not sending email... (just like AFAIK, email sent with gmail doesn't have ads in it) From vi5u0-pineinfo at yahoo.co.uk Wed Aug 4 03:38:37 2010 From: vi5u0-pineinfo at yahoo.co.uk (Dan Hatton) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: gmail/ads Re: [Alpine-info] no message status updates from gmail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Aug 2010, Joseph Brennan wrote: > Actually they make money by data-mining your mail and adding the > results to the dossier they build on you to target ads on other > web sites that carry Google ads. IANAL, but I'm fairly sure that if they did that here in the UK, they'd be in violation of section 1(3) of the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000. -- Dan From D.H.Davis at bath.ac.uk Wed Aug 4 03:58:29 2010 From: D.H.Davis at bath.ac.uk (Dennis Davis) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: gmail/ads Re: [Alpine-info] no message status updates from gmail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Aug 2010, Dan Hatton wrote: > From: Dan Hatton > To: alpine-info@u.washington.edu > Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 11:38:37 > Subject: Re: gmail/ads Re: [Alpine-info] no message status updates from gmail > > On Tue, 3 Aug 2010, Joseph Brennan wrote: > > > Actually they make money by data-mining your mail and adding the > > results to the dossier they build on you to target ads on other > > web sites that carry Google ads. > > IANAL, but I'm fairly sure that if they did that here in the UK, > they'd be in violation of section 1(3) of the Regulation of > Investigatory Powers Act 2000. I think you'll find that none of their servers are in the UK. So it's highly likely that they're outside the reach of UK law. Internet services that transcend national boundaries may well cause all kinds of legal problems[1]. I vaguely recall that a lot of their servers are situated in those parts of the USA (Tennessee ?) where land is relatively cheap, along with hydro-electric power. [1] Usual disclaimer applies: I'm not a lawyer and neither do I play the part of one on television. My advice to you on legal matters is that you do not take my advice on legal matters. -- Dennis Davis, BUCS, University of Bath, Bath, BA2 7AY, UK D.H.Davis@bath.ac.uk Phone: +44 1225 386101 From vi5u0-pineinfo at yahoo.co.uk Wed Aug 4 04:38:08 2010 From: vi5u0-pineinfo at yahoo.co.uk (Dan) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: gmail/ads Re: [Alpine-info] no message status updates from gmail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Aug 2010, Dennis Davis wrote: > I think you'll find that none of their servers are in the UK. > So it's highly likely that they're outside the reach of UK law. Ah, OK. RIPA does seem pretty clear that its jurisdiction is based on the location where the service provider does the intercepting. From rvi at sci.fi Wed Aug 4 11:12:33 2010 From: rvi at sci.fi (Riku Virtanen) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Pruning doesn't work In-Reply-To: References: <1279566647.19380.3.camel@baldr.codemages.net> Message-ID: Hi, Now I wrote strings command and the result is: -- /etc/pine.conf /etc/pine.conf.fixed .mailcap:/etc/mailcap:/usr/etc/mailcap:/usr/local/etc/mailcap .mime.types:/etc/mime.types:/usr/local/lib/mime.types mailcap# ~/.mailcap + /etc/mailcap + /usr/etc/mailcap + /usr/local/etc/mailcap mimetypes# ~/.mime.types + /etc/mime.types + /usr/local/lib/mime.types ~/.mailcap:/etc/mailcap:/usr/etc/mailcap:/usr/local/etc/mailcap "%s %s -l %s exec /etc/r%sd". All four "%s" entries MUST exist in the password /etc/passwd /etc/pki/tls/certs /etc/cram-md5.pwd /etc/mlock /etc/c-client.cf /etc/pki/tls/private %s %s -l %s exec /etc/r%sd # shell connection. The default is "%s %s -l %s exec /etc/r%sd" # shell connection. The default is "%s %s -l %s exec /etc/r%sd" --- What does it tell? Also, I have another Alpine in Debian machine, too, and same problem with it. Pruning question does not appear. Riku On Wed, 21 Jul 2010, Mike Miller wrote: > On Wed, 21 Jul 2010, Andra? 'ruskie' Levstik wrote: > >>> I wrote >>> which alpine | grep etc >>> Nothing text appear, I do not know if something goes to file or? >>> Besides, it is pity that is a bit problematic to install old Pine. I >>> loaded >>> the rpm file but after "rpm -ivh filename, there is list of missing libssl >>> / >>> libcrypto files which yum do not find, and a message about conflicts with >>> Alpine. >> >> You left out the backticks... But Anyway this is a bit more readable... >> >> the full command: $> strings $(which alpine) | grep "etc" >> >> Everything from > onward... just copy paste > > > That is an improvement (for bash shell) because backticks are deprecated, but > this will leave off some of the crap you don't want: > > strings $(which alpine) | grep /etc/ > > (the quotes were superfluous). The reason is that you only want to see the > path info, not this kind of junk: > > pam_setcred > pthread_setcancelstate > > Mike From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Wed Aug 4 11:37:19 2010 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Pruning doesn't work In-Reply-To: References: <1279566647.19380.3.camel@baldr.codemages.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Aug 2010, Riku Virtanen wrote: > Now I wrote strings command and the result is: > -- > /etc/pine.conf > /etc/pine.conf.fixed > .mailcap:/etc/mailcap:/usr/etc/mailcap:/usr/local/etc/mailcap > .mime.types:/etc/mime.types:/usr/local/lib/mime.types > mailcap# ~/.mailcap + /etc/mailcap > + /usr/etc/mailcap + /usr/local/etc/mailcap > mimetypes# ~/.mime.types + /etc/mime.types + /usr/local/lib/mime.types > ~/.mailcap:/etc/mailcap:/usr/etc/mailcap:/usr/local/etc/mailcap > "%s %s -l %s exec /etc/r%sd". All four "%s" entries MUST exist in the > password /etc/passwd > /etc/pki/tls/certs > /etc/cram-md5.pwd > /etc/mlock > /etc/c-client.cf > /etc/pki/tls/private > %s %s -l %s exec /etc/r%sd > # shell connection. The default is "%s %s -l %s exec /etc/r%sd" > # shell connection. The default is "%s %s -l %s exec /etc/r%sd" > --- > What does it tell? Also, I have another Alpine in Debian machine, too, and > same problem with it. Pruning question does not appear. You were trying to find out where Alpine is looking for your pine.conf file. The answer seems to be /etc/pine.conf Mike From rvi at sci.fi Wed Aug 4 13:25:08 2010 From: rvi at sci.fi (Riku Virtanen) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Pruning doesn't work In-Reply-To: References: <1279566647.19380.3.camel@baldr.codemages.net> Message-ID: Hi, I went to /etc/ -folder but there is not pine.conf file? How is it possible? Riku On Wed, 4 Aug 2010, Mike Miller wrote: > On Wed, 4 Aug 2010, Riku Virtanen wrote: > >> Now I wrote strings command and the result is: >> -- >> /etc/pine.conf >> /etc/pine.conf.fixed >> .mailcap:/etc/mailcap:/usr/etc/mailcap:/usr/local/etc/mailcap >> .mime.types:/etc/mime.types:/usr/local/lib/mime.types >> mailcap# ~/.mailcap + /etc/mailcap >> + /usr/etc/mailcap + /usr/local/etc/mailcap >> mimetypes# ~/.mime.types + /etc/mime.types + /usr/local/lib/mime.types >> ~/.mailcap:/etc/mailcap:/usr/etc/mailcap:/usr/local/etc/mailcap >> "%s %s -l %s exec /etc/r%sd". All four "%s" entries MUST exist in the >> password /etc/passwd >> /etc/pki/tls/certs >> /etc/cram-md5.pwd >> /etc/mlock >> /etc/c-client.cf >> /etc/pki/tls/private >> %s %s -l %s exec /etc/r%sd >> # shell connection. The default is "%s %s -l %s exec /etc/r%sd" >> # shell connection. The default is "%s %s -l %s exec /etc/r%sd" >> --- >> What does it tell? Also, I have another Alpine in Debian machine, too, and >> same problem with it. Pruning question does not appear. > > > You were trying to find out where Alpine is looking for your pine.conf file. > The answer seems to be /etc/pine.conf > > Mike > From chappa at u.washington.edu Wed Aug 4 14:13:25 2010 From: chappa at u.washington.edu (Eduardo Chappa) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Pruning doesn't work In-Reply-To: References: <1279566647.19380.3.camel@baldr.codemages.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Aug 2010, Riku Virtanen wrote: :) I went to /etc/ -folder but there is not pine.conf file? How is it :) possible? That is perfectly fine. There is no need for a global configuration file for Alpine to work. Alpine prunes folders when it is started, so I will assume that you have not been running Alpine for more than a month without closing it, right? Is your sent-mail folder local or remote? Can I see a .pinerc file that shows the problem? -- Eduardo http://staff.washington.edu/chappa/alpine/ From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Wed Aug 4 14:41:33 2010 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Pruning doesn't work In-Reply-To: References: <1279566647.19380.3.camel@baldr.codemages.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Aug 2010, Riku Virtanen wrote: > I went to /etc/ -folder but there is not pine.conf file? > How is it possible? That's just where it checks for the pine.conf file. It can run without one. The point of doing the "strings" test was to find out where it looks. Now you know that it isn't reading in a global configuration file because no such file exists in the place where it looks for it. I think that means your problems are probably in ~/.pinerc Mike From chappa at u.washington.edu Wed Aug 4 14:57:59 2010 From: chappa at u.washington.edu (Eduardo Chappa) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Re: no message status updates from gmail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Aug 2010, Tim K. (Gmane) wrote: :) > What specifically does Tbird do right (using IMAP, not POP) that :) > Alpine isn't doing? :) :) 2. Alpine does not make use of the IMAP IDLE command. I know it's :) controversial, but it works fine in TB, I see folder updates :) quickly. Against by better judgement, I installed and run Thunderbird to see this. I also implemented the IDLE command in Alpine, and this is what I see: The Gmail server is quite irresponsive to an IDLE command. This is the typical log of the response to an IDLE command: 54 IDLE + idling DONE 54 OK IDLE terminated (Success) Between the "idling" and the "DONE" messages, something is supposed to come from the server, like a changed flag, etc. I only saw that come once from the Gmail server to Thunderbird, and never for Alpine. It was only useful to update flags in the last message of the folder. Any other updates to other messages were ignored. In contrast, I could see in Alpine (while executing an IDLE command), updates in Microsoft Exchange server. I could also see updates in UW-IMAP. Microsoft's server was the best for this test. UW-IMAP will close the connection after 30 minutes. The Gmail server does not update status of the folders. It does not do it, be it during an IDLE or not in and IDLE command. You have to extract information from the server, this is not going to give it to you, unless you ask for it (I have updated a flag for a message in gmail more than an hour ago in Alpine, and still am waiting for it to be updated in Thunderbird). So, I do not know what are the conditions under which you observe this. I would like to know if there are two Thunderbird clients accessing the same folder, or it it is Thunderbird and another client (which one?). :) 3. Alpine does not get message flag updates when they happen through :) another client: marking a message important/star, marking a message :) read, answered, etc. TB doesn't have such problems. Is this happening in the local copy or in the remote copy? Do you know what are the conditions for this to happen? I am not clear about this point yet. Thank you. -- Eduardo http://staff.washington.edu/chappa/alpine/ From tk-gmane+at at idpax.com Wed Aug 4 15:09:39 2010 From: tk-gmane+at at idpax.com (Tim K. (Gmane)) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Re: no message status updates from gmail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > :) 3. Alpine does not get message flag updates when they happen through > :) another client: marking a message important/star, marking a message > :) read, answered, etc. TB doesn't have such problems. > > Is this happening in the local copy or in the remote copy? Do you know > what are the conditions for this to happen? I am not clear about this > point yet. I'm not sure what you mean by local or remote copy, but here's what I see: * Send an email to your Gmail account. It will appear 'new' in Gmail Web Interface (GWI), Thunderbird (TB) and Alpine. * Now open/read the email either in TB or in GWI. The email will be marked as read and both TB and GWI will see the message is no longer new. * Hit Ctrl+L in Alpine, the message will stay New all day long, I can never get it the 'N' flag removed. * You can take it further and play with 'Mark unread' in both TB and GWI, they will see each others changes, but Alpine will never see any of these changes. I don't know if IDLE plays any role in all this. TK From chappa at u.washington.edu Wed Aug 4 15:22:43 2010 From: chappa at u.washington.edu (Eduardo Chappa) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Re: no message status updates from gmail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Aug 2010, Tim K. (Gmane) wrote: :) > :) 3. Alpine does not get message flag updates when they happen :) > :) through another client: marking a message important/star, :) > :) marking a message read, answered, etc. TB doesn't have such :) > :) problems. :) > :) > Is this happening in the local copy or in the remote copy? Do you :) > know what are the conditions for this to happen? I am not clear about :) > this point yet. :) :) I'm not sure what you mean by local or remote copy, but here's what I :) see: [ommitted explanation of a process] Yes, I see this. No surprise. Now mark any message in Alpine as "A"nswered (except any of the last two). Do you see an update in Thunderbird? I am still waiting for an update from Thunderbird (Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.1.11) Gecko/20100714 SUSE/3.0.6 Thunderbird/3.0.6) By local or remote copy, I mean the following: Thundrebird caches your messages. I just spent more than 40 minutes downloading all my folders from Gmail, and I was not even asked if I wanted to do that. I am glad it was not done through the phone line! -- Eduardo http://staff.washington.edu/chappa/alpine/ From phalenor at gmail.com Wed Aug 4 15:26:16 2010 From: phalenor at gmail.com (Andy Cobaugh) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Re: no message status updates from gmail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 2010-08-04 at 15:09, Tim K. (Gmane) ( tk-gmane+at@idpax.com ) said: > >> :) 3. Alpine does not get message flag updates when they happen through >> :) another client: marking a message important/star, marking a message >> :) read, answered, etc. TB doesn't have such problems. >> >> Is this happening in the local copy or in the remote copy? Do you know >> what are the conditions for this to happen? I am not clear about this >> point yet. > > I'm not sure what you mean by local or remote copy, but here's what I see: > > * Send an email to your Gmail account. It will appear 'new' in Gmail Web > Interface (GWI), Thunderbird (TB) and Alpine. > > * Now open/read the email either in TB or in GWI. The email will be marked as > read and both TB and GWI will see the message is no longer new. > > * Hit Ctrl+L in Alpine, the message will stay New all day long, I can never > get it the 'N' flag removed. If you restart alpine, the flags get updated. > * You can take it further and play with 'Mark unread' in both TB and GWI, > they will see each others changes, but Alpine will never see any of these > changes. The reverse seems to be true as well. If I open the 'GWI', I see all kinds of messages that are still show as 'unread' which are no longer 'N' in alpine. Does this really matter? I thought most people who used alpine with gmail did so to avoid having to touch a web browser to get to their email. Maybe I'm in the majority, but the read/unread disconnect between gwi and alpine doesn't bother me. --andy From tk-gmane+at at idpax.com Wed Aug 4 15:56:18 2010 From: tk-gmane+at at idpax.com (Tim K. (Gmane)) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Re: no message status updates from gmail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 8/4/2010 3:26 PM, Andy Cobaugh wrote: > On 2010-08-04 at 15:09, Tim K. (Gmane) ( > tk-gmane+at@idpax.com ) said: >> >>> :) 3. Alpine does not get message flag updates when they happen through >>> :) another client: marking a message important/star, marking a message >>> :) read, answered, etc. TB doesn't have such problems. >>> >>> Is this happening in the local copy or in the remote copy? Do you know >>> what are the conditions for this to happen? I am not clear about this >>> point yet. >> >> I'm not sure what you mean by local or remote copy, but here's what I >> see: >> >> * Send an email to your Gmail account. It will appear 'new' in Gmail >> Web Interface (GWI), Thunderbird (TB) and Alpine. >> >> * Now open/read the email either in TB or in GWI. The email will be >> marked as read and both TB and GWI will see the message is no longer new. >> >> * Hit Ctrl+L in Alpine, the message will stay New all day long, I can >> never get it the 'N' flag removed. > > If you restart alpine, the flags get updated. > >> * You can take it further and play with 'Mark unread' in both TB and >> GWI, they will see each others changes, but Alpine will never see any >> of these changes. > > The reverse seems to be true as well. If I open the 'GWI', I see all > kinds of messages that are still show as 'unread' which are no longer > 'N' in alpine. > > Does this really matter? I thought most people who used alpine with > gmail did so to avoid having to touch a web browser to get to their > email. Maybe I'm in the majority, but the read/unread disconnect between > gwi and alpine doesn't bother me. > > --andy I think you need to hit Ctrl+L in Alpine to push the updates, it seems to work for me. TK From tk-gmane+at at idpax.com Wed Aug 4 15:59:14 2010 From: tk-gmane+at at idpax.com (Tim K. (Gmane)) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Re: no message status updates from gmail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > :)> :) 3. Alpine does not get message flag updates when they happen > :)> :) through another client: marking a message important/star, > :)> :) marking a message read, answered, etc. TB doesn't have such > :)> :) problems. > :)> > :)> Is this happening in the local copy or in the remote copy? Do you > :)> know what are the conditions for this to happen? I am not clear about > :)> this point yet. > :) > :) I'm not sure what you mean by local or remote copy, but here's what I > :) see: > [ommitted explanation of a process] > > Yes, I see this. No surprise. Now mark any message in Alpine as "A"nswered > (except any of the last two). Do you see an update in Thunderbird? I am > still waiting for an update from Thunderbird (Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux > i686; en-US; rv:1.9.1.11) Gecko/20100714 SUSE/3.0.6 Thunderbird/3.0.6) I think if I hit ctrl+l in Alpine it pushes the changes, it seems to for me. If I leave the Inbox in TB, go to a different folder and back to Inbox I see the flag update. > By local or remote copy, I mean the following: Thundrebird caches your > messages. I just spent more than 40 minutes downloading all my folders > from Gmail, and I was not even asked if I wanted to do that. I am glad it > was not done through the phone line! They changed this in the 3.x version I think because now there's a local email indexer ('gloda'). The default in TB 2 used to not store messages locally. If you know about the setting you can flip it when you configure the gmail account. But this is neither here nor there... TK From chappa at u.washington.edu Wed Aug 4 18:26:14 2010 From: chappa at u.washington.edu (Eduardo Chappa) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Re: no message status updates from gmail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Aug 2010, Tim K. (Gmane) wrote: :) I think if I hit ctrl+l in Alpine it pushes the changes, it seems to :) for me. If I leave the Inbox in TB, go to a different folder and back :) to Inbox I see the flag update. I do not know how Thunderbird handles the situation you describe. In Alpine, unless you are using a "stay open" folder, the folder you leave is closed, and so when you come back to it, the folder is reopened and all new status appear. But here is the bottom line. One of the reasons IMAP exists is so that you do not have to do these kind of "tricks" to see updates. The "know it all" server is supposed to tell its clients that updates have happened. It is not the job of the client to guess them, or even ask if any updates have happened. The server is supposed to say "a flag has been changed", "a message has been expunged". Unfortunately, I do not see certain updates being reported from the Gmail server, such as "this message that you have flagged with a N, was actually read, and so you should delete the N". The Gmail server just won't report that. Alpine has no way of knowing that information under normal conditions. I will try the IDLE command, maybe that will change things. -- Eduardo http://staff.washington.edu/chappa/alpine/ From tk-gmane+at at idpax.com Wed Aug 4 18:31:44 2010 From: tk-gmane+at at idpax.com (Tim K. (Gmane)) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Re: no message status updates from gmail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 8/4/2010 6:26 PM, Eduardo Chappa wrote: > On Wed, 4 Aug 2010, Tim K. (Gmane) wrote: > > :) I think if I hit ctrl+l in Alpine it pushes the changes, it seems to > :) for me. If I leave the Inbox in TB, go to a different folder and back > :) to Inbox I see the flag update. > > I do not know how Thunderbird handles the situation you describe. In > Alpine, unless you are using a "stay open" folder, the folder you leave is > closed, and so when you come back to it, the folder is reopened and all > new status appear. But the INBOX in Alpine is always "stay open", isn't it? How could I change it so that it is closed when I leave it and re-opened again? I'd like to play with it, maybe I can at least get updates this way. I currently get updates only when Alpine loses its connection to the server and it reports "INBOX closed" (which is another problem, it doesn't attempt to re-connect, an option would be nice). TK From chappa at u.washington.edu Wed Aug 4 19:25:31 2010 From: chappa at u.washington.edu (Eduardo Chappa) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Re: no message status updates from gmail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Aug 2010, Tim K. (Gmane) wrote: :) But the INBOX in Alpine is always "stay open", isn't it? Yes, that is correct. :) How could I change it so that it is closed when I leave it and :) re-opened again? You do not have to have an inbox, you could have your Gmail inbox as an incoming folder, instead. -- Eduardo http://staff.washington.edu/chappa/alpine/ From tk-gmane+at at idpax.com Wed Aug 4 19:29:10 2010 From: tk-gmane+at at idpax.com (Tim K. (Gmane)) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Re: no message status updates from gmail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > :) But the INBOX in Alpine is always "stay open", isn't it? > > Yes, that is correct. > > :) How could I change it so that it is closed when I leave it and > :) re-opened again? > > You do not have to have an inbox, you could have your Gmail inbox as an > incoming folder, instead. Do you have an example how to configure Alpine with Gmail like this? Not sure exactly which options I need to change. Thanks. TK From chappa at u.washington.edu Wed Aug 4 19:44:21 2010 From: chappa at u.washington.edu (Eduardo Chappa) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Re: no message status updates from gmail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: :) Do you have an example how to configure Alpine with Gmail like this? :) Not sure exactly which options I need to change. The easiest way is to edit your .pinerc file and add a like as follows: incoming-folders=Gmail {imap.gmail.com/ssl/user=YourAddress@gmail.com}inbox You may also want to enable [X] Enable Incoming Folders Collection in case you want for Alpine to check for new mail in it. If you want this, then try enabling also [X] Enable Incoming Folders Checking (however, as with many things with Gmail, you will never get an announcement saying that you got new mail in that folder, what I actually do is to recall how many messages there were in the folder the last time I checked, and see if the next time I see the folder if there is a different number. Due to the low amount of e-mail I receive in Gmail, I actually normally recall the last digit only.) -- Eduardo http://staff.washington.edu/chappa/alpine/ From tk-gmane+at at idpax.com Wed Aug 4 20:50:20 2010 From: tk-gmane+at at idpax.com (Tim K. (Gmane)) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Re: no message status updates from gmail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 8/4/2010 7:44 PM, Eduardo Chappa wrote: > > :) Do you have an example how to configure Alpine with Gmail like this? > :) Not sure exactly which options I need to change. > > The easiest way is to edit your .pinerc file and add a like as follows: > > incoming-folders=Gmail {imap.gmail.com/ssl/user=YourAddress@gmail.com}inbox > > You may also want to enable > > [X] Enable Incoming Folders Collection > > in case you want for Alpine to check for new mail in it. If you want this, > then try enabling also > > [X] Enable Incoming Folders Checking > > (however, as with many things with Gmail, you will never get an > announcement saying that you got new mail in that folder, what I actually > do is to recall how many messages there were in the folder the last time I > checked, and see if the next time I see the folder if there is a different > number. Due to the low amount of e-mail I receive in Gmail, I actually > normally recall the last digit only.) Do you mean not get email notifications at all, even if the folder is the currently open folder in Alpine? Not getting email notifications is a deal breaker for me. And it is strange that it does not work in Alpine again. In TB I can set multiple Gmail folders to be checked for new mail and I get notified when new mail is automatically foldered (or should I say labeled?) in those folders/labels. TK From chappa at u.washington.edu Wed Aug 4 21:16:05 2010 From: chappa at u.washington.edu (Eduardo Chappa) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Re: no message status updates from gmail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Aug 2010, Tim K. (Gmane) wrote: :) Do you mean not get email notifications at all, even if the folder is :) the currently open folder in Alpine? No, I am sorry. I probably misspoke. What I mean is that there is a system that checks for new mail in incoming folders, regardless of if they are open or closed. This system never notifies of new mail in Gmail when Gmail is closed (but it does, as it should, when the folder is open). I have never tried to understand why this happens. My hunch is that it is because I have the system check for recent messages as opposed to unseen messages (the gmail imap server does not have a concept of recent messags, only seen vs. unseen). I hope I am not confusing more every time. Oh, by the way, I tried changing the seen/unseen flag over an idle connection, and noticed no change. I have another idea up to what it could be, but it requires coding, which I need to try first.... -- Eduardo http://staff.washington.edu/chappa/alpine/ From dougb at FreeBSD.org Wed Aug 4 23:24:57 2010 From: dougb at FreeBSD.org (Doug Barton) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Re: no message status updates from gmail In-Reply-To: <4C5A577B.9010706@dougbarton.us> References: <4C5A577B.9010706@dougbarton.us> Message-ID: <4C5A5939.7020509@FreeBSD.org> On 08/04/10 15:09, Tim K. (Gmane) wrote: > * Now open/read the email either in TB or in GWI. The email will be > marked as read and both TB and GWI will see the message is no longer new. I don't think you ever answered my previous questions. Does making your gmail folder a "stay-open" folder, and/or hitting eXpunge in the folder view update the flags for you? Doug -- Improve the effectiveness of your Internet presence with a domain name makeover! http://SupersetSolutions.com/ Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. -- Pablo Picasso From tk-gmane+at at idpax.com Thu Aug 5 06:38:22 2010 From: tk-gmane+at at idpax.com (Tim K. (Gmane)) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Re: no message status updates from gmail In-Reply-To: <4C5A5939.7020509@FreeBSD.org> References: <4C5A577B.9010706@dougbarton.us> <4C5A5939.7020509@FreeBSD.org> Message-ID: >> * Now open/read the email either in TB or in GWI. The email will be >> marked as read and both TB and GWI will see the message is no longer new. > > I don't think you ever answered my previous questions. Does making your > gmail folder a "stay-open" folder, and/or hitting eXpunge in the folder > view update the flags for you? The INBOX is always a stay open folder and that seems to be the problem, if you close and open the folder again then you see the updates. eXpunge or Ctrl+L do not help either. Eduardo suggested I make the INBOX an incoming folder instead which will close the folder when I leave it, so at least there would be a way to force a folder re-open, which I don't know how to do otherwise if the INBOX is a stay open folder. TK From tk-gmane+at at idpax.com Thu Aug 5 06:40:21 2010 From: tk-gmane+at at idpax.com (Tim K. (Gmane)) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Re: no message status updates from gmail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > :) But the INBOX in Alpine is always "stay open", isn't it? > > Yes, that is correct. Is there any shortcut to force a "stay open" folder to close and reopen, short of quitting Alpine or using incoming folders? TK From hubert at uw.edu Thu Aug 5 11:45:29 2010 From: hubert at uw.edu (Steve Hubert) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Re: no message status updates from gmail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Aug 2010, Eduardo Chappa wrote: > I do not know how Thunderbird handles the situation you describe. In > Alpine, unless you are using a "stay open" folder, the folder you leave is > closed, and so when you come back to it, the folder is reopened and all > new status appear. Just thought I'd throw in the information that this isn't quite true. See the "Maximum Remote Connections" option help text. Steve From fhdata at unm.edu Thu Aug 5 19:18:35 2010 From: fhdata at unm.edu (FHDATA) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] authenticated LDAP searches Message-ID: <4C5B70FB.20701@unm.edu> Greetings, We have users who ssh into system and launch alpine (2.x) Is there any way to offer (non-anonymous) authenticated LDAP searches to users in alpine? Preferably we want it to be system-wide (/etc/pine.conf) but we can also consider ones that involve ~/.pinerc Thanks, f, From ckonstanski at pippiandcarlos.com Thu Aug 5 19:25:25 2010 From: ckonstanski at pippiandcarlos.com (Carlos Konstanski) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] authenticated LDAP searches In-Reply-To: <4C5B70FB.20701@unm.edu> References: <4C5B70FB.20701@unm.edu> Message-ID: <4C5B7295.20206@pippiandcarlos.com> On 08/05/2010 08:18 PM, FHDATA wrote: > > > Greetings, > > We have users who ssh into system and launch alpine (2.x) > > > Is there any way to offer (non-anonymous) authenticated LDAP searches to > users in alpine? > > > Preferably we want it to be system-wide (/etc/pine.conf) > but we can also consider ones that involve ~/.pinerc > > > Thanks, > f, > _______________________________________________ > Alpine-info mailing list > Alpine-info@u.washington.edu > http://mailman13.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/alpine-info I added a line like the following to my .pinerc file: ldap-servers=ldap.myserver.com "/base=dc=myserver,dc=com/binddn=cn=Joe Administrator,ou=people,dc=myserver,dc=com/impl=1/rhs=1/ref=0/nosub=0/tls=0/tlsm=0/type=/srch=contains/time=/size=/cust=/nick=ldap.myserver.com/matr=mail/catr=fullName/satr=surname/gatr=givenName" Carlos From chappa at u.washington.edu Sat Aug 7 11:53:38 2010 From: chappa at u.washington.edu (Eduardo Chappa) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] delays in closing incoming mail server In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 11 Jan 2010, Jacob Wegelin wrote: :) When I navigate away from my employer's incoming mail folder to go to :) one of my local folders (such as postponed-messages), typically Alpine :) gives messages along the lines of :) :) [Closing :) "{aspen4.vcu.edu:993/imap/notls/ssl/novalidate-cert/user="jwegelin"}inbox"...] :) :) "waited five seconds for server reply. Break connection to server?" :) :) If I answer Yes, then instead of moving me over to postponed-messages, :) Alpine opens up the incoming mail server again. This seems paradoxical. I have had this problem also for quite some time. I wrote a patch to fix this. The problem is that Alpine does not turn off a flag (user_says_cancel) before it opens the new connection, so Alpine triggers the code that makes it abort opening the new folder, and reopen the folder you want to close. The problem goes away once that flag is turned off. Patch at http://staff.washington.edu/chappa/alpine/info/closebug.html -- Eduardo http://staff.washington.edu/chappa/alpine/ From alpine at kolla.no Fri Aug 13 02:34:55 2010 From: alpine at kolla.no (=?UTF-8?Q?Kolbj=C3=B8rn_Barmen?=) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Alpine and IDN (Internationalized domain name) Message-ID: Hm, wasn't there support for IDN in some earlier incarnation of Alpine? Anyways, I cannot see any support for IDN now - so I suppose this can count as a feature request. :) -- kolla From vi5u0-pineinfo at yahoo.co.uk Mon Aug 16 06:20:42 2010 From: vi5u0-pineinfo at yahoo.co.uk (Dan) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] What means "[MAIL FOLDER "INBOX" CLOSED DUE TO ACCESS ERROR]"?? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Jul 2010, Beartooth wrote: > any time I don't touch the Alpine one for a while, I get a message > at the bottom of the screen saying : > "[MAIL FOLDER "INBOX" CLOSED DUE TO ACCESS ERROR]" > All that seems to mean in practice is that I have to hit L, > then Enter twice, and go do something else till Alpine reconnects. > Is there any more I ought to know about this situation? Any > way to make things quicker or less troublesome? Or is it basically > just the price for tolerating POP3? Did anyone reply to this off-list? I'd like to know the answer too, please. -- Thanks, Dan From ifettich at netsoft.ro Mon Aug 16 07:09:09 2010 From: ifettich at netsoft.ro (Iosif Fettich) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] What means "[MAIL FOLDER "INBOX" CLOSED DUE TO ACCESS ERROR]"?? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Aug 2010, Dan wrote: > On Wed, 28 Jul 2010, Beartooth wrote: > >> any time I don't touch the Alpine one for a while, I get a message >> at the bottom of the screen saying : > >> "[MAIL FOLDER "INBOX" CLOSED DUE TO ACCESS ERROR]" > >> All that seems to mean in practice is that I have to hit L, >> then Enter twice, and go do something else till Alpine reconnects. Is it possible that in the meantime you checked/accessed the Inbox from another computer or with a different mail client ? I've seen this at my WS only if I managed to launch a second alpine, or used Thunderbird or things like that. Best regards, Iosif Fettich From alpine at benizi.com Mon Aug 16 07:33:06 2010 From: alpine at benizi.com (Benjamin R. Haskell) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] What means "[MAIL FOLDER "INBOX" CLOSED DUE TO ACCESS ERROR]"?? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Aug 2010, Iosif Fettich wrote: > On Mon, 16 Aug 2010, Dan wrote: > > > On Wed, 28 Jul 2010, Beartooth wrote: > > > > > any time I don't touch the Alpine one for a while, I get a > > > message at the bottom of the screen saying : > > > > > "[MAIL FOLDER "INBOX" CLOSED DUE TO ACCESS ERROR]" > > > > > All that seems to mean in practice is that I have to hit L, then > > > Enter twice, and go do something else till Alpine reconnects. > > Is it possible that in the meantime you checked/accessed the Inbox > from another computer or with a different mail client ? > > I've seen this at my WS only if I managed to launch a second alpine, > or used Thunderbird or things like that. It just means that the connection to your mail server has been lost. For me, I see this all the time with (hosted) Gmail. It's a consequence of the way Alpine is designed to work: it needs a connection at all times -- not like most mail clients that just connect during the times they're checking for new mail (or that use the IDLE command). Many mail servers disconnect clients after a period of inactivity, or they simply aren't good at maintaining connections for this type of mostly-idle clients. I generally do '<' 'Enter' (up one folder level, then back) when this state arises, and it only arises when I'm having connectivity issues (rarely) or when I leave Alpine alone in the background (frequently). -- Best, Ben From Peter.Andree at t-online.de Tue Aug 17 15:43:40 2010 From: Peter.Andree at t-online.de (P. Andree) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] mailinglist Message-ID: I'm new to alpine and have a problem. I failed to configure the aspell-checker for German language. I would appreciate any help! Thanks in advance, Peter. From Peter.Andree at t-online.de Tue Aug 17 15:51:39 2010 From: Peter.Andree at t-online.de (P. Andree) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] spell checker german dict Message-ID: I'm new to alpine and have a problem. I failed to configure the aspell-checker for German language. I would appreciate any help! Thanks in advance, Peter. From arfonrg at 1337mail.net Tue Aug 17 19:53:39 2010 From: arfonrg at 1337mail.net (A Griffith) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] "Leave mail on server"? Message-ID: <4C6B4B33.4050706@1337mail.net> I installed Alpine and have it setup with incoming folders for two POP accounts. How do you make Alpine leave mail on the server? From asheesh at asheesh.org Wed Aug 18 07:19:08 2010 From: asheesh at asheesh.org (Asheesh Laroia) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] spell checker german dict In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Aug 2010, P. Andree wrote: > I'm new to alpine and have a problem. I failed to configure the > aspell-checker for German language. I would appreciate any help! Are you on a Linux system? What distribution? (Do you have root -- that is, is it your own machine?) -- Asheesh. -- You are scrupulously honest, frank, and straightforward. Therefore you have few friends. From Peter.Andree at t-online.de Wed Aug 18 07:58:47 2010 From: Peter.Andree at t-online.de (P. Andree) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] spell checker german dict In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I apologize, I've forgotten the most important thing: OS is windows xp, I have admin rights (it's my own machine) and run alpine 2.00. I'm able to configure other editors for TeX with Aspell and German language but I failed with alpine and I don't know why. Thank you helping me to fix the problem. Regards, Peter. From vi5u0-pineinfo at yahoo.co.uk Wed Aug 18 09:20:22 2010 From: vi5u0-pineinfo at yahoo.co.uk (Dan) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] What means "[MAIL FOLDER "INBOX" CLOSED DUE TO ACCESS ERROR]"?? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks, Iosif and Ben, for the replies On Mon, 16 Aug 2010, Benjamin R. Haskell wrote: > It just means that the connection to your mail server has been lost. Fair enough. > I generally do '<' 'Enter' (up one folder level, then back) when this > state arises, and it only arises when I'm having connectivity issues > (rarely) or when I leave Alpine alone in the background (frequently). Those are the times it arises for me, too. But on POP3, the workaround you suggest has the side-effect of making previously-expunged messages reappear - see the thread starting at and restarting at . -- Regards, Dan From vi5u0-pineinfo at yahoo.co.uk Wed Aug 18 10:10:46 2010 From: vi5u0-pineinfo at yahoo.co.uk (Dan) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Unexpected exit on opening certain message Message-ID: Dear All, I've been finding for a while that Alpine 2.00 exits abnormally on attempting to open certain messages. Today, I finally managed to capture a .pine-crash file. What appears to be the relevant bit is appended below. Any ideas, please? Thanks, Dan 18:05:56.061445: ----- MAIL VIEW ----- 18:05:56.061492: busy_cue(Busy, (nil), 1) 18:05:56.062034: do_fiddle_smime_message(msgno=5041 type=1 subtype=MIXED section =Top) 18:05:56.062068: do_fiddle_smime_message(msgno=5041 type=1 subtype=SIGNED section=1) 18:05:56.062092: do_detached_signature_verify(msgno=5041 type=1 subtype=SIGNED section=1) 18:05:56.062125: smime_init() 18:05:56.062254: get_ca_store() 18:05:56.062364: get_ca_store(): adding cacerts from /etc/ssl/certs 18:05:56.064961: busy_cue(Busy, (nil), 1) 18:05:56.065030: -- gf_pipe: 18:05:56.065076: done. 18:05:56.065171: do_fiddle_smime_message(msgno=5041 type=0 subtype=PLAIN section=2) 18:05:56.065376: -- gf_reset local_nvtnl 18:05:56.065408: -- gf_reset line_test 18:05:56.065469: -- gf_reset wrap 18:05:56.065524: -- gf_reset nvtnl_local 18:05:56.065548: -- gf_pipe: 18:05:56.065661: suspend_busy_cue 18:05:56.065721: resume_busy_cue 18:05:56.065746: suspend_busy_cue 18:05:56.065799: resume_busy_cue 18:05:56.065824: suspend_busy_cue 18:05:56.065870: resume_busy_cue 18:05:56.065895: suspend_busy_cue 18:05:56.065936: resume_busy_cue 18:05:56.065959: done. 18:05:56.065996: - mailcap_can_display - 18:05:56.066020: - mc_get_command(Multipart/MIXED) - 18:05:56.066041: - mc_init - 18:05:56.066139: mailcap: path: /home/dan/.mailcap:/etc/mailcap:/usr/etc/mailcap:/usr/local/etc/mailcap 18:05:56.066163: mailcap: process_file: /home/dan/.mailcap 18:05:56.066196: mailcap: processing file: /home/dan/.mailcap 18:05:56.066245: mailcap: /home/dan/.mailcap doesn't exist 18:05:56.066267: mailcap: process_file: /etc/mailcap 18:05:56.066298: mailcap: processing file: /etc/mailcap 18:05:56.067932: mailcap: content type: text/plain 18:05:56.068013: command: less '%s' 18:05:56.068048: mailcap: set needsterminal 18:05:56.068096: mailcap: content type: application/x-troff-man 18:05:56.068142: command: /usr/bin/nroff -mandoc -Tlatin1 18:05:56.068175: mailcap: set copiousoutput 18:05:56.068209: mailcap: printcommand=/usr/bin/nroff -mandoc -Tlatin1 | print text/plain:- 18:05:56.068259: mailcap: content type: text/plain 18:05:56.068301: command: shownonascii iso-8859-1 '%s' 18:05:56.068344: mailcap: label="Plain ASCII Text" 18:05:56.068381: mailcap: testcommand=test "$(echo %{charset} | tr "[A-Z]" "[a-z]")" = iso-8859-1 -a "$DISPLAY" != "" 18:05:56.068433: mailcap: content type: text/richtext 18:05:56.068463: command: shownonascii iso-8859-1 -e richtext -p '%s' 18:05:56.068496: mailcap: label="Richtext" 18:05:56.068525: mailcap: set copiousoutput 18:05:56.068553: mailcap: testcommand=test "$(echo %{charset} | tr "[A-Z]" "[a-z]")" = iso-8859-1 -a "$DISPLAY" != "" 18:05:56.068591: mailcap: content type: text/enriched 18:05:56.068611: command: shownonascii iso-8859-1 -e richtext -e -p '%s' 18:05:56.068632: mailcap: label="Enriched Text" 18:05:56.068656: mailcap: set copiousoutput 18:05:56.068684: mailcap: testcommand=test "$(echo %{charset} | tr "[A-Z]" "[a-z]")" = iso-8859-1 -a "$DISPLAY" != "" 18:05:56.068716: mailcap: content type: message/partial 18:05:56.068736: command: showpartial '%s' %{id} %{number} %{total} 18:05:56.068757: mailcap: label="An incomplete message" 18:05:56.068792: mailcap: content type: message/external-body 18:05:56.068812: command: showexternal '%s' %{access-type} %{name} %{site} %{directory} %{mode} %{server} 18:05:56.068833: mailcap: set needsterminal 18:05:56.068854: mailcap: label="A reference to data stored in an external location" 18:05:56.068877: mailcap: ignoring unknown flag: "extcompose '%s"' 18:05:56.068905: mailcap: content type: audio/basic 18:05:56.068925: command: /usr/lib/mime/playaudio '%s' 18:05:56.068946: mailcap: label=Basic uLaw Audio 18:05:56.068967: mailcap: nametemplate=%s.au 18:05:56.068996: mailcap: content type: application/x-tar 18:05:56.069016: command: /bin/tar tvf - 18:05:56.069037: mailcap: printcommand=/bin/tar tvf - | print text/plain:- 18:05:56.069057: mailcap: set copiousoutput 18:05:56.069087: mailcap: content type: application/x-gtar 18:05:56.069114: command: /bin/tar tvzf - 18:05:56.069137: mailcap: printcommand=/bin/tar tvzf - | print text/plain:- 18:05:56.069158: mailcap: set copiousoutput 18:05:56.069185: mailcap: content type: text/plain 18:05:56.069205: command: more '%s' 18:05:56.069225: mailcap: set needsterminal 18:05:56.069255: mailcap: content type: application/xrx 18:05:56.069274: command: view=xrx '%s' 18:05:56.069295: mailcap: label="remote X application" 18:05:56.069316: mailcap: testcommand=test "$DISPLAY" 18:05:56.069337: mailcap: nametemplate=%s.rx 18:05:56.069365: mailcap: content type: text/richtext 18:05:56.069384: command: richtext '%s' 18:05:56.069405: mailcap: label="Richtext" 18:05:56.069426: mailcap: set copiousoutput 18:05:56.069453: mailcap: content type: text/enriched 18:05:56.069472: command: richtext -e '%s' 18:05:56.069493: mailcap: label="Enriched Text" 18:05:56.069514: mailcap: set copiousoutput 18:05:56.069543: mailcap: content type: text/plain 18:05:56.069562: command: gview '%s' 18:05:56.069584: mailcap: ignoring unknown flag: gvim -f '%s' 18:05:56.069605: mailcap: not using compose=gvim -f '%s' 18:05:56.069626: mailcap: testcommand=test "$DISPLAY" != "" 18:05:56.069657: mailcap: content type: text/plain 18:05:56.069681: command: view '%s' 18:05:56.069702: mailcap: ignoring unknown flag: vim '%s' 18:05:56.069724: mailcap: not using compose=vim '%s' 18:05:56.069744: mailcap: set needsterminal 18:05:56.069774: mailcap: content type: text/html 18:05:56.069794: command: /usr/bin/lynx -force_html '%s' 18:05:56.069814: mailcap: set needsterminal 18:05:56.069835: mailcap: label=HTML Text 18:05:56.069857: mailcap: nametemplate=%s.html 18:05:56.069883: mailcap: content type: text/* 18:05:56.069902: command: less '%s' 18:05:56.069922: mailcap: set needsterminal 18:05:56.069952: mailcap: content type: text/html 18:05:56.069971: command: /usr/bin/lynx -dump -force_html '%s' 18:05:56.069992: mailcap: set copiousoutput 18:05:56.070013: mailcap: label=HTML Text 18:05:56.070034: mailcap: nametemplate=%s.html 18:05:56.070063: mailcap: content type: text/* 18:05:56.070082: command: gview '%s' 18:05:56.070104: mailcap: ignoring unknown flag: gvim -f '%s' 18:05:56.070135: mailcap: not using compose=gvim -f '%s' 18:05:56.070156: mailcap: testcommand=test "$DISPLAY" != "" 18:05:56.070184: mailcap: content type: text/* 18:05:56.070203: command: view '%s' 18:05:56.070224: mailcap: ignoring unknown flag: vim '%s' 18:05:56.070246: mailcap: not using compose=vim '%s' 18:05:56.070267: mailcap: set needsterminal 18:05:56.070292: mailcap: content type: text/* 18:05:56.070312: command: more '%s' 18:05:56.070332: mailcap: set needsterminal 18:05:56.070357: mailcap: content type: */* 18:05:56.070377: command: less '%s' 18:05:56.070397: mailcap: set needsterminal 18:05:56.070422: mailcap: content type: */* 18:05:56.070441: command: false 18:05:56.070462: mailcap: printcommand=lpr '%s' 18:05:56.070484: mailcap: process_file: /usr/etc/mailcap 18:05:56.070516: mailcap: processing file: /usr/etc/mailcap 18:05:56.070543: mailcap: /usr/etc/mailcap doesn't exist 18:05:56.070563: mailcap: process_file: /usr/local/etc/mailcap 18:05:56.070594: mailcap: processing file: /usr/local/etc/mailcap 18:05:56.070624: mailcap: /usr/local/etc/mailcap doesn't exist 18:05:56.070654: mc_ctype_match: text/plain == Multipart / MIXED ? 18:05:56.070684: mc_ctype_match: application/x-troff-man == Multipart / MIXED ? 18:05:56.070708: mc_ctype_match: text/plain == Multipart / MIXED ? 18:05:56.070731: mc_ctype_match: text/richtext == Multipart / MIXED ? 18:05:56.070754: mc_ctype_match: text/enriched == Multipart / MIXED ? 18:05:56.070777: mc_ctype_match: message/partial == Multipart / MIXED ? 18:05:56.070799: mc_ctype_match: message/external-body == Multipart / MIXED ? 18:05:56.070822: mc_ctype_match: audio/basic == Multipart / MIXED ? 18:05:56.070845: mc_ctype_match: application/x-tar == Multipart / MIXED ? 18:05:56.070868: mc_ctype_match: application/x-gtar == Multipart / MIXED ? 18:05:56.070891: mc_ctype_match: text/plain == Multipart / MIXED ? 18:05:56.070913: mc_ctype_match: application/xrx == Multipart / MIXED ? 18:05:56.070936: mc_ctype_match: text/richtext == Multipart / MIXED ? 18:05:56.070959: mc_ctype_match: text/enriched == Multipart / MIXED ? 18:05:56.070981: mc_ctype_match: text/plain == Multipart / MIXED ? 18:05:56.071004: mc_ctype_match: text/plain == Multipart / MIXED ? 18:05:56.071027: mc_ctype_match: text/html == Multipart / MIXED ? 18:05:56.071049: mc_ctype_match: text/* == Multipart / MIXED ? 18:05:56.071072: mc_ctype_match: text/html == Multipart / MIXED ? 18:05:56.071094: mc_ctype_match: text/* == Multipart / MIXED ? 18:05:56.071123: mc_ctype_match: text/* == Multipart / MIXED ? 18:05:56.071147: mc_ctype_match: text/* == Multipart / MIXED ? 18:05:56.071170: mc_ctype_match: */* == Multipart / MIXED ? 18:05:56.071192: mc_ctype_match: */* == Multipart / MIXED ? 18:05:56.071214: - mailcap_can_display - 18:05:56.071236: - mc_get_command(Multipart/MIXED) - 18:05:56.071264: - mailcap_can_display - 18:05:56.071287: - mc_get_command(Multipart/SIGNED) - 18:05:56.071309: mc_ctype_match: text/plain == Multipart / SIGNED ? 18:05:56.071332: mc_ctype_match: application/x-troff-man == Multipart / SIGNED ? 18:05:56.071354: mc_ctype_match: text/plain == Multipart / SIGNED ? 18:05:56.071377: mc_ctype_match: text/richtext == Multipart / SIGNED ? 18:05:56.071399: mc_ctype_match: text/enriched == Multipart / SIGNED ? 18:05:56.071422: mc_ctype_match: message/partial == Multipart / SIGNED ? 18:05:56.071445: mc_ctype_match: message/external-body == Multipart / SIGNED ? 18:05:56.071467: mc_ctype_match: audio/basic == Multipart / SIGNED ? 18:05:56.071490: mc_ctype_match: application/x-tar == Multipart / SIGNED ? 18:05:56.071513: mc_ctype_match: application/x-gtar == Multipart / SIGNED ? 18:05:56.071535: mc_ctype_match: text/plain == Multipart / SIGNED ? 18:05:56.071558: mc_ctype_match: application/xrx == Multipart / SIGNED ? 18:05:56.071580: mc_ctype_match: text/richtext == Multipart / SIGNED ? 18:05:56.071603: mc_ctype_match: text/enriched == Multipart / SIGNED ? 18:05:56.071625: mc_ctype_match: text/plain == Multipart / SIGNED ? 18:05:56.071651: mc_ctype_match: text/plain == Multipart / SIGNED ? 18:05:56.071680: mc_ctype_match: text/html == Multipart / SIGNED ? 18:05:56.071703: mc_ctype_match: text/* == Multipart / SIGNED ? 18:05:56.071725: mc_ctype_match: text/html == Multipart / SIGNED ? 18:05:56.071748: mc_ctype_match: text/* == Multipart / SIGNED ? 18:05:56.071770: mc_ctype_match: text/* == Multipart / SIGNED ? 18:05:56.071792: mc_ctype_match: text/* == Multipart / SIGNED ? 18:05:56.071815: mc_ctype_match: */* == Multipart / SIGNED ? 18:05:56.071837: mc_ctype_match: */* == Multipart / SIGNED ? 18:05:56.071858: - mailcap_can_display - 18:05:56.071880: - mc_get_command(Multipart/SIGNED) - 18:05:56.071924: end_signals(1) ========== Append DebugJournal End =================== From mattack at apple.com Wed Aug 18 10:51:12 2010 From: mattack at apple.com (Matt Ackeret) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] "Leave mail on server"? In-Reply-To: <4C6B4B33.4050706@1337mail.net> References: <4C6B4B33.4050706@1337mail.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 17 Aug 2010, A Griffith wrote: > I installed Alpine and have it setup with incoming folders for two POP > accounts. > > How do you make Alpine leave mail on the server? Use IMAP instead, since that's one of the main differences? OK, that's just a semi-sarcastic response, I don't actually know how to do it in alpine... But really, POP is "intended" (IMHO) to download from the server, and the clients that can leave mail on the server are doing a minor "trick" I'd say. Also, you can easily hose your mailbox if you accidentally have two programs try to access the POP mailbox at the same time.. (IMAP deals with that fine.) There's probably a setting in M S C to leave mail on the server in POP. From mattack at apple.com Wed Aug 18 11:24:45 2010 From: mattack at apple.com (Matt Ackeret) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Unexpected exit on opening certain message In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Aug 2010, Dan wrote: > I've been finding for a while that Alpine 2.00 exits abnormally on > attempting to open certain messages. Today, I finally managed to > capture a .pine-crash file. What appears to be the relevant bit is > appended below. Any ideas, please? I don't personally really know the alpine code, but I'm wondering if you can run it under gdb to get a full backtrace, if you know how to use gdb. That seems like it might be more useful than the info in the file you provided. I realize someone who knows alpine probably feels differently, but for me, seeing a full backtrace of what happened, possibly accompanied by that log file, would help figure out what happened more quickly. From chappa at u.washington.edu Wed Aug 18 11:25:32 2010 From: chappa at u.washington.edu (Eduardo Chappa) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] "Leave mail on server"? In-Reply-To: <4C6B4B33.4050706@1337mail.net> References: <4C6B4B33.4050706@1337mail.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 17 Aug 2010, A Griffith wrote: :) I installed Alpine and have it setup with incoming folders for two POP :) accounts. :) :) How do you make Alpine leave mail on the server? Alpine does not "download" the messages as you think. Alpine executes a TOP command or a RETR command to download information about the message or to retrieve the full message. There is, probably, an implicit assumption from the server that once the message has been retrieved, it has been cached by the client, and therefore can be safely deleted from the server. Alpine does not delete the message as a result of retrieving it, it is the server that unilaterally does. Unfortunately, Alpine does not cache the message either, so using Alpine with that Pop server is a bad combination. You can, however, use Alpine to save messages from a POP3 server, so that they will be cached locally by using a maildrop. That way, at least, you would not lose messages, even though they would not be in the server after connecting to the server. -- Eduardo http://staff.washington.edu/chappa/alpine/ From alpine at benizi.com Wed Aug 18 11:31:17 2010 From: alpine at benizi.com (Benjamin R. Haskell) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] "Leave mail on server"? In-Reply-To: References: <4C6B4B33.4050706@1337mail.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Aug 2010, Matt Ackeret wrote: > On Tue, 17 Aug 2010, A Griffith wrote: > > I installed Alpine and have it setup with incoming folders for two > > POP accounts. > > > > How do you make Alpine leave mail on the server? > > Use IMAP instead, since that's one of the main differences? > > OK, that's just a semi-sarcastic response, I don't actually know how > to do it in alpine... But really, POP is "intended" (IMHO) to > download from the server, and the clients that can leave mail on the > server are doing a minor "trick" I'd say. I think you'd have a harder time *not* leaving mail on the server w/ alpine via POP. From the help text for Server Name Syntax: POP3 This value indicates communication with the server takes place via the Post Office Protocol 3 protocol. [...] Note that there are several important issues to consider when selecting this option: [...] 2. Alpine's implementation of POP3 does not follow the traditional POP model and will leave your mail on the server. Refer to the Mail Drop functionality for a possible way around this problem. > Also, you can easily hose your mailbox if you accidentally have two programs > try to access the POP mailbox at the same time.. (IMAP deals with that > fine.) > > There's probably a setting in M S C to leave mail on the server in POP. I'll second Matt's suggestion: Use IMAP unless you absolutely can't. Alpine is a great IMAP client, and POP3 isn't designed for the "leave mail on the server" paradigm. -- Best, Ben From dwm at xpasc.com Wed Aug 18 11:54:51 2010 From: dwm at xpasc.com (David Morris) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] "Leave mail on server"? In-Reply-To: References: <4C6B4B33.4050706@1337mail.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Aug 2010, Eduardo Chappa wrote: > On Tue, 17 Aug 2010, A Griffith wrote: > > :) I installed Alpine and have it setup with incoming folders for two POP > :) accounts. > :) > :) How do you make Alpine leave mail on the server? > Alpine does not delete the message as a result of retrieving it, it is the > server that unilaterally does. Unfortunately, Alpine does not cache the > message either, so using Alpine with that Pop server is a bad combination. Speaking in general, it is a common feature of other POP3 UAs that the mail can be left on the server. Its been a couple years since I played with the protocol so I don't recall the details of how it is done, but it is possible. I have worked with a number of folks who depended on that feature to access their email from two different computers ... Switching to IMAP ... not all ISPs offer IMAP access so it may not be an option. From chappa at u.washington.edu Wed Aug 18 12:44:16 2010 From: chappa at u.washington.edu (Eduardo Chappa) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] "Leave mail on server"? In-Reply-To: References: <4C6B4B33.4050706@1337mail.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Aug 2010, David Morris wrote: :) > Alpine does not delete the message as a result of retrieving it, it :) > is the server that unilaterally does. Unfortunately, Alpine does not :) > cache the message either, so using Alpine with that Pop server is a :) > bad combination. :) :) Speaking in general, it is a common feature of other POP3 UAs that the :) mail can be left on the server. No matter which program you use, the Gmail pop3 server will remove the message from the server once it is retrieved. This has nothing to do with Alpine. Alpine leaves messages in the server, the server is the one deleting them. -- Eduardo http://staff.washington.edu/chappa/alpine/ From damion.yates at gmail.com Wed Aug 18 12:56:31 2010 From: damion.yates at gmail.com (damion.yates@gmail.com) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] "Leave mail on server"? In-Reply-To: References: <4C6B4B33.4050706@1337mail.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Aug 2010, Eduardo Chappa wrote: > On Wed, 18 Aug 2010, David Morris wrote: > > :) > Alpine does not delete the message as a result of retrieving it, > :) > it is the server that unilaterally does. Unfortunately, Alpine > :) > does not cache the message either, so using Alpine with that Pop > :) > server is a bad combination. > :) > :) Speaking in general, it is a common feature of other POP3 UAs that > :) the mail can be left on the server. > > No matter which program you use, the Gmail pop3 server will remove the > message from the server once it is retrieved. This has nothing to do > with Alpine. Alpine leaves messages in the server, the server is the > one deleting them. That should be configurable via the settings on the webui. Clients can choose to delete or not, this is common pop3 operation. However as everyone suggests IMAP is much more useful. Damion From chappa at u.washington.edu Wed Aug 18 13:08:56 2010 From: chappa at u.washington.edu (Eduardo Chappa) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] "Leave mail on server"? In-Reply-To: References: <4C6B4B33.4050706@1337mail.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Aug 2010, damion.yates@gmail.com wrote: :) That should be configurable via the settings on the webui. Clients can :) choose to delete or not, this is common pop3 operation. However as :) everyone suggests IMAP is much more useful. Alpine does not delete anything. If *YOU* want to delete, then *YOU* can do so. Alpine *DOES NOT* delete anything for you, you have to do it for yourself. However, some servers do delete without anyone requesting it (either by an action initiated by the client on its own, or by the person through the client). The option "keep messages in the server" is an option to avoid the client to delete messages from the server. In the case of Alpine, it does not delete anything, so there is no reason for this. However, you might argue that you would like Alpine to DELETE messages from the server instead (that is, the option should be "[X] delete messages from a pop3 server"), then in that case, you have to know that neither Alpine nor the server will keep a copy of the message that has been deleted. Does this make any sense? -- Eduardo http://staff.washington.edu/chappa/alpine/ From robin.listas at telefonica.net Wed Aug 18 13:09:47 2010 From: robin.listas at telefonica.net (Carlos E. R.) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] "Leave mail on server"? In-Reply-To: References: <4C6B4B33.4050706@1337mail.net> Message-ID: <4C6C3E0B.2050908@telefonica.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2010-08-18 20:54, David Morris wrote: > > On Wed, 18 Aug 2010, Eduardo Chappa wrote: >> Alpine does not delete the message as a result of retrieving it, it is the >> server that unilaterally does. Unfortunately, Alpine does not cache the >> message either, so using Alpine with that Pop server is a bad combination. > > Speaking in general, it is a common feature of other POP3 UAs that the > mail can be left on the server. Its been a couple years since I played > with the protocol so I don't recall the details of how it is done, but > it is possible. I have worked with a number of folks who depended on that > feature to access their email from two different computers ... It is quite simple to setup "fetchmail" to do that job (keyword: keep). - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 11.2 x86_64 "Emerald" at Elessar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkxsPgsACgkQU92UU+smfQUT2QCfey6kAwRIcikIDisVGHFG5vtK zowAn0Lh5krMvH0HXnuXuZNWUtTMi/h6 =uY1T -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Wed Aug 18 14:46:28 2010 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] "Leave mail on server"? In-Reply-To: References: <4C6B4B33.4050706@1337mail.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Aug 2010, Eduardo Chappa wrote: > On Wed, 18 Aug 2010, David Morris wrote: > > :) > Alpine does not delete the message as a result of retrieving it, it > :) > is the server that unilaterally does. Unfortunately, Alpine does not > :) > cache the message either, so using Alpine with that Pop server is a > :) > bad combination. > :) > :) Speaking in general, it is a common feature of other POP3 UAs that the > :) mail can be left on the server. > > No matter which program you use, the Gmail pop3 server will remove the > message from the server once it is retrieved. This has nothing to do > with Alpine. Alpine leaves messages in the server, the server is the one > deleting them. I know that isn't true, at least not always, because I use Gmail with POP3 (via fetchmail and via Palm Pre) and it never deletes anything. Part of the Google business model is to keep all of your data for mining purposes. Mike From chappa at u.washington.edu Wed Aug 18 14:48:21 2010 From: chappa at u.washington.edu (Eduardo Chappa) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] "Leave mail on server"? In-Reply-To: References: <4C6B4B33.4050706@1337mail.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Aug 2010, Mike Miller wrote: :) I know that isn't true, at least not always, because I use Gmail with :) POP3 (via fetchmail and via Palm Pre) and it never deletes anything. :) Part of the Google business model is to keep all of your data for :) mining purposes. The messages are deleted from the pop3 server, but you can select it to not to be deleted from your gmail account. -- Eduardo http://staff.washington.edu/chappa/alpine/ From vi5u0-pineinfo at yahoo.co.uk Wed Aug 18 16:02:26 2010 From: vi5u0-pineinfo at yahoo.co.uk (Dan) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Unexpected exit on opening certain message In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Aug 2010, Matt Ackeret wrote: > I don't personally really know the alpine code, but I'm wondering if you > can run it under gdb to get a full backtrace, if you know how to use > gdb. That seems like it might be more useful than the info in the > file you provided. Thanks Matt. I now have a backtrace. Before I post it here - is there anything I need to watch out for in terms of the backtrace containing personal data? -- Regards, Dan From mattack at apple.com Wed Aug 18 16:10:04 2010 From: mattack at apple.com (Matt Ackeret) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Unexpected exit on opening certain message In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Aug 2010, Dan wrote: > On Wed, 18 Aug 2010, Matt Ackeret wrote: > >> I don't personally really know the alpine code, but I'm wondering if you >> can run it under gdb to get a full backtrace, if you know how to use >> gdb. That seems like it might be more useful than the info in the >> file you provided. > > Thanks Matt. I now have a backtrace. Before I post it here - is > there anything I need to watch out for in terms of the backtrace > containing personal data? Not that I know of. From robin.listas at telefonica.net Wed Aug 18 19:56:35 2010 From: robin.listas at telefonica.net (Carlos E. R.) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] "Leave mail on server"? In-Reply-To: References: <4C6B4B33.4050706@1337mail.net> Message-ID: <4C6C9D63.5010703@telefonica.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2010-08-18 23:48, Eduardo Chappa wrote: > On Wed, 18 Aug 2010, Mike Miller wrote: > > :) I know that isn't true, at least not always, because I use Gmail with > :) POP3 (via fetchmail and via Palm Pre) and it never deletes anything. > :) Part of the Google business model is to keep all of your data for > :) mining purposes. > > The messages are deleted from the pop3 server, but you can select it to > not to be deleted from your gmail account. No, gmail in pop3 mode does not delete the emails. What it does is move a marker up (like "all previous emails to this one have been downloaded". In fact, in the web UI you can reset that marker to the very first email you got several years ago and fetch them all, again, via pop3. Or you can use imap with gmail - a slow one, by the way. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 11.2 x86_64 "Emerald" at Elessar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkxsnWMACgkQU92UU+smfQU2BACfQWBcx4+jSplwWdx3lfAOphX7 SrcAnj4IEnmDAOcqFeYdPhAxg/Nhk5Lk =qk1x -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From chappa at u.washington.edu Wed Aug 18 20:32:10 2010 From: chappa at u.washington.edu (Eduardo Chappa) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] "Leave mail on server"? In-Reply-To: <4C6C9D63.5010703@telefonica.net> References: <4C6B4B33.4050706@1337mail.net> <4C6C9D63.5010703@telefonica.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Aug 2010, Carlos E. R. wrote: :) > The messages are deleted from the pop3 server, but you can select it :) > to not to be deleted from your gmail account. :) :) No, gmail in pop3 mode does not delete the emails. What it does is move :) a marker up (like "all previous emails to this one have been :) downloaded". In fact, in the web UI you can reset that marker to the :) very first email you got several years ago and fetch them all, again, :) via pop3. There are two interfaces. One is the web interface, one is the pop3 server. If you read a message from the pop3 interface then the message is removed from that interface. You do not have to do anything for it to disappear. In the web interface, once you read a message it remains in it. See the difference? Granted you can reset the pop3 service so that old messages in the pop3 server reappear in it, but this is through the web interface as you notice, that is they are put back in it, has nothing to do with pop3 support stand alone. This, however, ha nothing to do with pop3, nor the topic under consideration. It is not Alpine removing messages, it is the pop3 server (and those messages can be put back through another interface in this case). However, this is not the point of this thread either. Gmail was supposed to be an example of a server that deletes messages without client intervention (other than reading the message). There is nothing *Alpine* can do to keep a message in the Gmail pop3 server once the user has opened it for reading. In the more general case, once a message is gone from a server, it is gone forever. Even if the server, and not Alpine, is the party responsible for the deletion. For those that still have a doubt about this, do the following experiment. * set up pop3 access in a gmail account. Set it up to not to delete messages from the web interface so that messages are not gone from it if undesired. * open (in Alpine) the folder linked to the pop3 gmail account. Check the number of messages, headers, etc. but do not read any messages. * close the folder. * reopen (in Alpine) the folder, and check that the folder is as it was when it was closed earlier. The conclusion you should draw from this is "Alpine does not delete messages from the server". * close the folder, again. By now you should know that all messages in the pop3 folder should be there, but if you do not believe it, try it again. Nevertheless before attempting the next step, close the folder by closing Alpine. * Use a client that has a "leave messages in the server" option, and use it to open a gmail account. * Open the pop3 gmail folder in that client, and close the client. * Reopen the pop3 folder in Alpine. Now what do you see? If you see all messages again it means that the other client only read headers (using the TOP command), if not, it means the other client read the body of the messages and failed its promise "to leave messages in the server". * If you see any message in the pop3 folder in Gmail, while in Alpine, read it and Close Alpine. * Re-start Alpine and open the pop3 folder. Notice the message that you just read is gone. Notice that Alpine did not delete this message. If you started the previous session with the command "alpine -d imap=4", you should be able to see in the debug ta "RETR" command, and that Alpine never deleted the message that was read. -- Eduardo http://staff.washington.edu./chappa/alpine/ From vi5u0-pineinfo at yahoo.co.uk Thu Aug 19 03:37:38 2010 From: vi5u0-pineinfo at yahoo.co.uk (Dan) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] "Leave mail on server"? In-Reply-To: References: <4C6B4B33.4050706@1337mail.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Aug 2010, Eduardo Chappa wrote: > However, some servers do delete without anyone requesting it (either by an > action initiated by the client on its own, or by the person through the > client). In the name of good scholarship, I note that an example of this was reported here: . -- Regards, Dan From vi5u0-pineinfo at yahoo.co.uk Thu Aug 19 06:37:39 2010 From: vi5u0-pineinfo at yahoo.co.uk (Dan) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Unexpected exit on opening certain message In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Aug 2010, Matt Ackeret wrote: > On Wed, 18 Aug 2010, Dan wrote: >> Thanks Matt. I now have a backtrace. Before I post it here - is >> there anything I need to watch out for in terms of the backtrace >> containing personal data? > Not that I know of. That seems to have met with general acquiescence, so the backtrace follows Thanks again, Dan #0 0x081aa8be in mc_get_command (type=1, subtype=0x8884570 "SIGNED", body=0x888a5e0, check_extension=1, sp_handlingp=0x0) at mailcap.c:603 fname = 0x8c96c90 "openpgp.msg" e2b = {from = {ext = 0xfa00
, mime_type = 0xfa00
}, to = {mime = { type = 137198925, subtype = 0xbfff94e8 "?\b\001"}, ext = 0x82d7d4d "- mailcap_can_display -\n"}} mc = tmp_subtype = "r\000\000\000`\030?l\337?\321\337?(\224\377\277A\224\377\277H\224\377\277\350\223\377\277\244\330?h\211K\b\027\000\000\000\001\000\000\000\027\000\000\000\026\330>\b\004\224\377\277X\224\377\277M\"\"\bh\211K\b\027\000\000\000\001\000\000\000\027\000\000\000\026\330>\b\313\351?(\224\377\277A\224\377\277", '\000' "\377, \377\377\377.734884\000\304\377\377\377\000\000\000\000\306alL\244\066\v\000\000\000\000\000\000\000\000\000\306alL\000\000\000\000@\216K\bpsT\b\250\224\377\277\331\006\032\bpsT\bh\211K\b\017\000\000\000y", '\000' , "\034\004\000\000\027", '\000' , "\033\004\000\000\000\000\000\000W\216K\b\000\000\000\000\005\000\000\000\001\000\000\000?\b?\377\277" tmp_ext = "?\"\b@\216K\b\005\000\000\000\001\000\000" ext = fake_mc = {next = 0x0, needsterminal = 0, contenttype = 0x0, command = 0x0, nametemplate = 0x0, testcommand = 0x0, label = 0x0, printcommand = 0x0} fake_cmd = '\000' #1 0x081aadd4 in mailcap_can_display (type=1, subtype=0x8884570 "SIGNED", body=0x888a5e0, check_extension=1) at mailcap.c:723 No locals. #2 0x081cb3d1 in describe_mime (body=0x888a5e0, prefix=0xbfffae08 "1.", num=1, should_show=1, multalt=0, flags=3) at mimedesc.c:150 alt_to_show = part = numx = "h\211K\bh\211K\bw\211K\b~\211K\bh\211K\b~\211K\b", '\000' , "\004\000\000\000\270\255W\b\000\000\000\b\000\000\000\000\000\000\000\000 \311?\000\000\000\000\273\000\000\000\000\000\000\000\026L?\264\255W1\377\377\377\377\017\000\000\000\357\367?\000\241\377\277\362\000\000\000\340\244W\b\306alL\233O?\364\317?\226&?\324;\000\000 \311?\000\000\000\000\364\317?\300\351?\016\000\000\000\060\241\377\277r\373\275\267\300\351?d)\300\267`\030?D\241\377\277\364\317?\a\260\377\277X\241\377\277\037<\300\267|\241\377\277\b\256\377\277\a\260\377\277\244\242\377\277\364\317?\b\256\377\277|\241\377\277h\242\377\277r\331?|\241\377\277*\253-\b\254\242\377\277\b\256\377\277\000\000\000\000\034\242\377\277\377\001\000\000\001\200\255\373\b\256\377\277\b\256\377\277\b\256\377\277\b\256\377\277\n\256\377\277\a\260\377\277\b\256\377\277\a\260\377\277", '\000' "\377, \377\377\377\004\000\000\000\064\066\066\000\000\000\000\377\000\000\000\000\306alLz!\v\000\031\000\000\000\001", '\000' , "@\216K\b\377\377\377\377\070\242\377\277\331\006\032\b\000\355S\b"... string = "\230\235\377\277\300\351\067\062\071\064\070\067\264\236\377\277\364\317?d)\300\267\300\351?\210\235\377\277\364\317?\000\000\000\000\000\000\000\000\037<\300\267?\377\277\300\351?\324\337?\344\236\377\277\364\317??\377\277\300\351?\264\236\377\277\304?\267?\377\277d)\300\267\000\237\377\277\300\351?\364\317?\000\000\000\000\000\000\000\000\037<\300\267\f\236\377\277h\211K\b\000\000\000\000\064\237\377\277\364\317?h\211K\b\f\236\377\277\370\236\377\277r\331?\f\236\377\277\026\330>\b@\237\377\277h\211K\b\000\000\000\000\254\236\377\277\026\000\000\000\001\200\255\373h\211K\bh\211K\bh\211K\bh\211K\bw\211K\b~\211K\bh\211K\b~\211K\b", '\000' , "\004\000\000\000\270\255W\b\000\000\000\b\000\000\000\000\000\000\000\000 \311?\000\000\000\000\273\000\000\000\000\000\000\000\026L?\264\255W\b\377\377\377\377\017\000\000\000\357\367?\240\236\377\277\362\000\000\000\340\244W\b\306alL\233O?\364\317?\226&?\324;\000\000 \311?\000\000\000\000\364\317?\300\351?\016\000\000\000?\377\277r\373\275\267\300\351?r\000\000\000`\030?\344\236\377\277\364\317?\030\237\377\277k*?\300\351?r\000\000\000"... description = n = named = can_display_ext = a = #3 0x081caf29 in describe_mime (body=0x8c51058, prefix=0x8c96c90 "openpgp.msg", num=1, should_show=1, multalt=0, flags=3) at mimedesc.c:181 alt_to_show = 0 part = 0x888a5e0 numx = "1.\000\000\000\000\000\000?\377\277\"\330>\b\331\a\000\000\364\317?<\257\377\277\001\000\000\000X\256\377\277\351F?p\257\377\277\020\016\000\000<\257\377\277D\256\377\277<\257\377\277\000\000\000\000\000\000\000\000\364\317?\000\000\000\000\021\000\000\000p\256\377\277\234-?2043\001\000\000\000<\257\377\277\364\317?\224\256\377\277\026\000\000\000p\257\377\277<\257\377\277\224\256\377\277\364\317?\f\257\377\277\243\206?\364\317?\254\257\377\277\353P?\003\000\000\000\357\367?\f\257\377\277?\377\277p\257\377\277d)\300\267\030\000\000\000\061i\300\267\364\317?\000\000\000\000\000\000\000\000\037<\300\267\000\001\002\003\004\005\006\a\006\000\000\000\f\r\016\017\020\021\022\023\024\025\026\027\030\000\000\000\200\343?\020\000\000\000\000\000\000\000\061i\300\267,", '\000' "\210, \343?\200\343?\020\000\000\000\000\000\000\000\231\364?\270\343?\000\000\000\000\000\000\000\000\031\000\000\000\200\343?!\000\000\000\004\000\000\000\310f\311\b\000\000\000\000\000\000\000\000\004\001@\020\220\343?\000\000\000\000\000\000\000\000"... string = "x\252\377\277\324\260\377\277(h\275\267\061i\300\267P\260\377\277\300\260\377\277\321\337?`\030?\204\261\377\277d\260\377\277\270\344?\231\364?\000\000\000\000\240\261\377\277}\030?`\030?\000\000\000\000\274\252\377\277", '\000' , "\n\000\000\000\034\260\377\277", '\000' "\377, \377\377\377!\330>\b\026\330>\b\000\000\000\000\002", '\000' , "\n\000\000d^\260\377\277", '\000' "\343, *\300\267\f\254\377\277\001\000\000\000\001\000\000\000\354\262\377\277\000\000\000\000\364\317?\001\000\000\000\000\000\000\000\000\254\377\277@_\277\267X\262\377\277P\254\377\277\\\254\377\277D\254\377\277X\254\377\277\001\000\000\000\001\000\000\000\001\000\000\000P\262\377\277", '\000' , "4\262\377\277\353n\301\267\353n\301\267\353n\301\267\364\317?\a\264\377\277@\254\377\277x\262\377\277\343*\300\267\001\264\377\277d\262\377\277\006\000\000\000\006\000\000\000P\262\377\277\364\317?\000\000\000\000\"\330>\bx\262\377\277\201[\275\267\234\262\377\277\"\330>\b\000\000\000\000\067\000\000\000\000\000\000\000d\260\377\277\017\000\000\000\244\377\377\377\244\377\377\377\244\377\377\377\"\330>\b\b\254\377\277d\262\377\277(h\275"... description = n = 1 named = can_display_ext = 0 a = #4 0x081c4e45 in format_attachment_list (msgno=5041, body=0x8c51058, handlesp=0xbfffbec0, flgs=, width=80, pc=0x80e0a4d ) at mailview.c:548 a = #5 0x081c8fab in format_message (msgno=5041, env=0x8c954c8, body=0x8c51058, handlesp=0xbfffbec0, flgs=3, pc=0x80e0a4d ) at mailview.c:198 decode_err = h = {type = 2, except = 0, h = {l = 0x6fd, b = 1789}, charset = "\000\000\000\000\001\000\000\000(n\311\b(n\311\b\000\000\000\000@\246\210\b\257\000\000\000\370\275\377\277X-b\b\261\023\000\000\261\023\000\000\370\275\377\277\036\a$\bX-b\b\261\023\000\000xn\311\b"} width = 80 #6 0x080e62d7 in mail_view_screen (ps=0x856f008) at mailview.c:357 last_was_full_header = 0 '\000' last_message_viewed = -1 raw_msgno = 5041 offset = 0 save_what = FirstMenu we_cancel = 1 flags = 3 cmd = 0 force_prefer = 0 mc = env = 0x8c954c8 body = 0x8c51058 store = 0x8c96e28 handles = 0x0 scrollargs = {text = {text = 0x17, src = 18, desc = 0x8
, handles = 0x7da}, bar = { title = 0x1
, style = TitleBarNone, color = 0x3}, keys = {menu = 0xbfffbe98, bitmap = "?\"\b@\216K\b\001\000\000\000\001\000\000\000\000\372", '\000' , what = 139915272, each_cmd = 0x856f0cc}, help = { text = 0x856f008, title = 0xbfffbeb8 "?\377\277\034\070\r\b"}, mouse = {click = 0x80d3788 , clickclick = 0x856f008}, start = {on = 140062128, loc = { frag = 0x856f0e5 "Computer_Science", offset = 139915493}}, proc = {tool = 0x8622d58, data = {p = 0x8622718, i = 140650264}}, end_scroll = 0x856f008, bogus_input = 0xbfffbed8, resize_exit = 0, body_valid = 0, no_stat_msg = 1, vert_handle = 1, srch_handle = 1, quell_help = 0, quell_newmail = 0, quell_first_view = 0, jump_is_debug = 0, use_indexline_color = 0} #7 0x08073861 in main (argc=1, argv=0xbfffec24) at alpine.c:1359 int_mail = "/home/dan/.pine-interrupted-mail", '\000' args = {action = aaFolder, noutf8 = 0, data = {folder = 0x0, file = 0x0, mail = {addrlist = 0x0, attachlist = 0x0}, copy = { local = 0x0, remote = 0x0}}, url = 0x0} rv = 0 rvl = 0 pine_state = 0x856f008 stdin_getc = 0 args_for_debug = 0x0 init_pinerc_debugging = 0x0 From arfonrg at 1337mail.net Thu Aug 19 08:24:14 2010 From: arfonrg at 1337mail.net (arfonrg@1337mail.net) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] "Leave mail on server"? In-Reply-To: References: <4C6B4B33.4050706@1337mail.net> Message-ID: Wow, I really didn't mean to start a war... Okay, I don't know what the deal is but here are the symptoms.... I have an e-mail account with my registrar. I can not use IMAP because the allocated space is very small. I run Eudora (Thunderbird) at home, KMail on one laptop and pine on another. I have Eudora and KMail set to leave messages on the server for 3 days. When I download messages with Eudora or KMail, they stay on the server. I can download them later with Pine. When I download them with Pine, they can not be seen by Eudora or KMail (so I have to assume that Pine's POP is deleting them). What am I missing? How do I fix this? Is there a way for Pine to use the Eudora (Thunderbird) mbox files??? Thanks From pine at jamescharles.eu Thu Aug 19 10:37:21 2010 From: pine at jamescharles.eu (James Pittman) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] "Leave mail on server"? In-Reply-To: References: <4C6B4B33.4050706@1337mail.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Aug 2010, Eduardo Chappa wrote: > You can, however, use Alpine to save messages from a POP3 server, so that > they will be cached locally by using a maildrop. More importantly, Alpine lets you use an IMAP folder as the destination for a maildrop. That way, even if your pop3 account doesn't have an IMAP option, you can still benefit from the benefits of IMAP by 'downloading' everything from your pop3 server to a different, IMAP server. If you don't have an IMAP server at all, they're not too difficult to get hold of for free or a small subscription. In theory, you could probably set up your other clients to do something similar. I imagine that in Thunderbird, at least, this would be a case of setting up a filter that catches all incoming pop3 mail and 'saves' it to the remote folder on a different server. Not tried this personally, but from what I remember of Thunderbird's functionality, I don't see why you shouldn't be able to do this, though it probably wouldn't be quite so eloquant as in Alpine. Alternatively, if your pop3 server doesn't have an IMAP option, does it have a forward option, that would allow you to forward to an account that is IMAP? From arfonrg at 1337mail.net Thu Aug 19 11:09:35 2010 From: arfonrg at 1337mail.net (arfonrg@1337mail.net) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] "Leave mail on server"? In-Reply-To: References: <4C6B4B33.4050706@1337mail.net> Message-ID: > Alternatively, if your pop3 server doesn't have an IMAP option, does it > have a forward option, that would allow you to forward to an account that > is IMAP? All of your suggestions are good suggestions. I think I'm going just use Getmail to get the mail and save it locally. It's just that I have Pine working now and I was hoping there was one little configuration flag that I missed to solve this problem. Since there's not, I'm gonna fight with Getmail. Thanks for the help though. From robin.listas at telefonica.net Thu Aug 19 11:35:20 2010 From: robin.listas at telefonica.net (Carlos E. R.) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] "Leave mail on server"? In-Reply-To: References: <4C6B4B33.4050706@1337mail.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Aug 2010, arfonrg@1337mail.net wrote: ... > What am I missing? How do I fix this? Is there a way for Pine to use the > Eudora (Thunderbird) mbox files??? Yes. You just have to put a symlink in the directory where alpine searchs for email to the one that Th. uses. Or the other way round - as long as both programs are not running at the same time. Caveat: Alpine can not update the Th indexes, nor viceversa. Meaning, that a mail you read in one will not appear as "read" in the other one. Not exactly, but close to. But instead, I would use fetchmail to get the email. I normally use fetchmail, which passes it to the system MTA (postfix, sendmail, whatever), which can pass it to amavis-new for spam/virus checks, which passes it over to procmail for delivery and further filtering. It is simpler than it sounds :-) Others use fetchmail feeding directly procmail. Another setup is fetching in one computer which in turns serves the email via imap, on the local network, to another computer, on which you could be using alpine or whatever (even simultaneously). Again, another setup, in the second computer, would synchronize a local imap server to the master imap server (1st computer), so that after that point the first computer can be powered-off and alpine would still get the email via imap from the local imap server (off-line reading). I don't remember right now the name of the tool to do this sync. You see, multiple possibilities :-) -- Cheers Carlos E. R. (desde 11.2 x86_64 "Emerald" en Elessar) From chappa at u.washington.edu Thu Aug 19 11:57:26 2010 From: chappa at u.washington.edu (Eduardo Chappa) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] "Leave mail on server"? In-Reply-To: References: <4C6B4B33.4050706@1337mail.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Aug 2010, James Pittman wrote: :) On Wed, 18 Aug 2010, Eduardo Chappa wrote: :) :) > You can, however, use Alpine to save messages from a POP3 server, so :) > that they will be cached locally by using a maildrop. :) :) More importantly, Alpine lets you use an IMAP folder as the destination :) for a maildrop. That way, even if your pop3 account doesn't have an :) IMAP option, you can still benefit from the benefits of IMAP by :) 'downloading' everything from your pop3 server to a different, IMAP :) server. If you don't have an IMAP server at all, they're not too :) difficult to get hold of for free or a small subscription. Yes, of course I know all of this, but it misses the point, which is why are messages disappearing from the POP3 folder, even though Alpine has done nothing to delete them. This is not a discussion of what is the best way to read messages from a POP3 server, but how to avoid messages from disappearing from a POP3 folder. I have a theory about why other programs are able to do it, but have not checked it yet, and believe that it would not be an easy fix to make Alpine do this. Tracking how to fix this problem leads eventually to the implementation of the expunge command, and that does not seem to be easy to fix. If Alpine did not implement an expunge command for POP3 folders, then this would be easy to solve (if my theory is correct). -- Eduardo http://staff.washington.edu/chappa/alpine/ From chappa at u.washington.edu Thu Aug 19 12:38:03 2010 From: chappa at u.washington.edu (Eduardo Chappa) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] "Leave mail on server"? In-Reply-To: <4C6C9D63.5010703@telefonica.net> References: <4C6B4B33.4050706@1337mail.net> <4C6C9D63.5010703@telefonica.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Aug 2010, Carlos E. R. wrote: :) No, gmail in pop3 mode does not delete the emails. Connecting to Gmail's pop3 server, you can see this, as the result of the CAPA command: +OK Capability list follows USER RESP-CODES EXPIRE 0 LOGIN-DELAY 300 X-GOOGLE-VERHOEVEN UIDL . The relevant line is "EXPIRE 0". This is the meaning of it according to RFC 2449: EXPIRE 0 indicates the client is not permitted to leave mail on the server; when the session enters the UPDATE state the server MAY assume an implicit DELE for each message which was downloaded with RETR. This is what Alpine does. It does RETR on each message it reads. The Gmail pop3 server is behaving according to protocol. It is the c-client library (on which Alpine is based) who is at fault here for not warning the user about this. -- Eduardo http://staff.washington.edu/chappa/alpine/ From pine at jamescharles.eu Thu Aug 19 15:08:38 2010 From: pine at jamescharles.eu (James Pittman) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] "Leave mail on server"? In-Reply-To: References: <4C6B4B33.4050706@1337mail.net> <4C6C9D63.5010703@telefonica.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Aug 2010, Eduardo Chappa wrote: > The relevant line is "EXPIRE 0". This is the meaning of it according to > RFC 2449: > EXPIRE 0 indicates the client is not permitted to leave mail on the > server; when the session enters the UPDATE state the server MAY > assume an implicit DELE for each message which was downloaded with > RETR. > This is what Alpine does. It does RETR on each message it reads. The > Gmail pop3 server is behaving according to protocol. It is the c-client > library (on which Alpine is based) who is at fault here for not warning > the user about this. Can messages be downloaded without using the RETR instruction? If not, surely no client can leave a message on the server? From pine at jamescharles.eu Thu Aug 19 15:10:44 2010 From: pine at jamescharles.eu (James Pittman) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] "Leave mail on server"? In-Reply-To: References: <4C6B4B33.4050706@1337mail.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Aug 2010, Eduardo Chappa wrote: > Yes, of course I know all of this, but it misses the point, which is why > are messages disappearing from the POP3 folder, even though Alpine has > done nothing to delete them. This is not a discussion of what is the > best way to read messages from a POP3 server, but how to avoid messages > from disappearing from a POP3 folder. Well others might not know all of this, and this is an information list after all, so I thought it a usefull thing to point out as a change from the usual rallying cries of "just use IMAP". From chappa at u.washington.edu Thu Aug 19 15:41:44 2010 From: chappa at u.washington.edu (Eduardo Chappa) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] "Leave mail on server"? In-Reply-To: References: <4C6B4B33.4050706@1337mail.net> <4C6C9D63.5010703@telefonica.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Aug 2010, James Pittman wrote: :) Can messages be downloaded without using the RETR instruction? If :) not, surely no client can leave a message on the server? The only way to download a message is using the RETR command. Read the RFC to see that, and no that does not imply what you are saying, because it depends on how the "implicit DELE" part is implemented in the server. There is a combination which implies that no one can undo it, and another combination that is possible to undo from the client, but that is server dependent, not something under client control, so even though the client can try to undo the DELE, it is the server that decides this. -- Eduardo http://staff.washington.edu/chappa/alpine/ From bl10 at cam.ac.uk Fri Aug 20 10:37:06 2010 From: bl10 at cam.ac.uk (Barry Landy) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] slow connection option Message-ID: I have just come back from a cruise with a really really slow connection...... I could not get Alpine (under windows) to connect at all : it always timed out and often quite quickly. I had to use the webmail interface to my ISP (which was OK if really frustratingly slow and intermittent). I assume there is a command line parameter to lengthen the wait time but I couldnt find it. I tried setting -tcp-open-timeout but that did not seem to make ny difference. Any wisdom appreciated. -- Barry Landy Home: +44-1223-570417 192, Gilbert Road College: +44-1223-472134 Cambridge CB4 3PB Efax: +44-870-458-0205 England Email BL10@cam.ac.uk From chappa at u.washington.edu Fri Aug 20 19:39:52 2010 From: chappa at u.washington.edu (Eduardo Chappa) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] slow connection option In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Aug 2010, Barry Landy wrote: :) I have just come back from a cruise with a really really slow :) connection...... :) [deleted some text] :) I tried setting -tcp-open-timeout but that did not seem to make ny :) difference. Any wisdom appreciated. Try running alpine with the command alpine -d imap=4,timestamp,tcp repeat the problem and look for the output in the pinedebug file (do not recall the exact name), but what you want to look over there is for what Alpine is doing (look for big differences in time the time stamps) This should give you an idea of what the problem might be. -- Eduardo http://staff.washington.edu/chappa/alpine/ From bl10 at cam.ac.uk Sat Aug 21 13:34:33 2010 From: bl10 at cam.ac.uk (Barry Landy) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] slow connection option In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Aug 2010, Eduardo Chappa wrote: :>On Fri, 20 Aug 2010, Barry Landy wrote: :> :>:) I have just come back from a cruise with a really really slow :>:) connection...... :>:) [deleted some text] :>:) I tried setting -tcp-open-timeout but that did not seem to make ny :>:) difference. Any wisdom appreciated. :> :>Try running alpine with the command :> :>alpine -d imap=4,timestamp,tcp :> :>repeat the problem and look for the output in the pinedebug file (do not :>recall the exact name), but what you want to look over there is for what :>Alpine is doing (look for big differences in time the time stamps) :> :>This should give you an idea of what the problem might be. :> :> Far too late for that (we are now home) but thanks! -- Barry Landy Home: +44-1223-570417 192, Gilbert Road College: +44-1223-472134 Cambridge CB4 3PB Efax: +44-870-458-0205 England Email BL10@cam.ac.uk From rvi at sci.fi Tue Aug 24 06:39:53 2010 From: rvi at sci.fi (Riku Virtanen) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Docx-format Message-ID: Hi All, I am using a Braille display and I use only a command prompt side of Linux. I have configured rtf, doc and pdf formats for Alpine. In other words, in the mailcap file, there are settings for unrtf, pdftotext and antiword. These programs convert these three format types to text and I can read files straight in Alpine. But I have not found any program for docx. I know that Openoffice.org opens docx, but that program is not compatible for the command prompt side. It runs only in the graphical side. Can anyone help? Riku From Oliver.Menge at web.de Tue Aug 24 06:58:14 2010 From: Oliver.Menge at web.de (Menge, Oliver) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Docx-format In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > But I have not found any program for docx. I know that Openoffice.org opens > docx, but that program is not compatible for the command prompt side. It runs > only in the graphical side. I remember using antiword that would convert a doc-file and send the text portion of it to standard-out. Not sure though if it would read the docx format that seems to be used by more recent versions of Microsoft Office. O. From cshelton at shelton-family.net Tue Aug 24 07:58:57 2010 From: cshelton at shelton-family.net (Chris Shelton) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Docx-format In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Riku, On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 9:39 AM, Riku Virtanen wrote: > Hi All, > > I am using a Braille display and I use only a command prompt side of Linux. > I have configured rtf, doc and pdf formats for Alpine. In other words, in > the mailcap file, there are settings for unrtf, pdftotext and antiword. > These programs convert these three format types to text and I can read files > straight in Alpine. > > But I have not found any program for docx. I know that Openoffice.org opens > docx, but that program is not compatible for the command prompt side. It > runs only in the graphical side. > > Can anyone help? > > A bit of searching found this page: http://blog.kiddaland.net/2009/07/antiword-for-office-2007/ which includes a perl script that on first run seems to work for me. chris -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kap4lin at gmail.com Tue Aug 24 13:49:25 2010 From: kap4lin at gmail.com (kap4lin) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] show file date (&// sort) in browser Message-ID: Hi, Using alpine-2.00 (patched version from Eduardo, last compiled in Mar 2009) on RHEL 5.5 I have a series of questions, the first one is here (others will be in separate mails) When attaching files from the compose screen (^J ^T) (or in other situations when using the BROWSER), the BROWSER shows file names and their size. Is it possible to show (some type of) date for that file? And may be an option to sort the file list by either size or date (currently it sorts by file name with directories on top). -- Regards Kap4Lin -------------------------------------- http://counter.li.org? #402424 From kap4lin at gmail.com Tue Aug 24 13:51:47 2010 From: kap4lin at gmail.com (kap4lin) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] color in thread index Message-ID: Hi, Using alpine-2.00 (patched version from Eduardo, last compiled in Mar 2009) on RHEL 5.5 Is it possible to have colors in the THREAD INDEX (similar to MESSAGE INDEX)? I have rules setup for message index and I was hoping something similar for thread index. -- Regards Kap4Lin -------------------------------------- http://counter.li.org? #402424 From kap4lin at gmail.com Tue Aug 24 13:53:33 2010 From: kap4lin at gmail.com (kap4lin) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] sort each thread by date Message-ID: Hi, Using alpine-2.00 (patched version from Eduardo, last compiled in Mar 2009) on RHEL 5.5 When moving from a THREAD INDEX to a MESSAGE INDEX for a particular thread, is it possible to resort the messages only in that thread by date/arrival? -- Regards Kap4Lin -------------------------------------- http://counter.li.org? #402424 From arfonrg at 1337mail.net Tue Aug 24 18:34:40 2010 From: arfonrg at 1337mail.net (A Griffith) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] maildir config... (gave up on Leave Mail On Server) In-Reply-To: References: <4C6B4B33.4050706@1337mail.net> Message-ID: <4C747330.5000500@1337mail.net> Okay, I gave up on the "leave mail on server" problem. So, I installed getmail and it is getting my mail and delivering it to my maildirs. I DL'd the patch and recompiled alpine and that's all okay. What I'm stuck on now is, how do you configure Alpine to read the mail from several maildirs? I have MANY e-mail accounts and they are all being downloaded and sorted into their own maildir. How do I tell Alpine to use those maildirs? Thanks From arfonrg at 1337mail.net Tue Aug 24 18:35:13 2010 From: arfonrg at 1337mail.net (A Griffith) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] How to patch Alpine on Slackware... Message-ID: <4C747351.8000206@1337mail.net> If anyone cares, to apply the maildir patch to alpine and remake the Slackware package, I did this: 1) Download the /slackware64-13.1/source/n/alpine/ directory (with contents of course). 2) Copy the patch into the directory you just downloaded. 3) Add "zcat $CWD/maildir.patch.gz | patch -p1 --verbose || exit 1" to the alpine.SlackBuild file so it reads like this: ... \( -perm 666 -o -perm 664 -o -perm 600 -o -perm 444 -o -perm 440 -o -perm 400 \) \ -exec chmod 644 {} \; zcat $CWD/alpine.manpage.diff.gz | patch -p1 --verbose || exit 1 zcat $CWD/maildir.patch.gz | patch -p1 --verbose || exit 1 # Configure: CFLAGS="$SLKCFLAGS" \ ... 4) Execute the alpine.SlackBuild to make the package. From vi5u0-pineinfo at yahoo.co.uk Wed Aug 25 04:03:17 2010 From: vi5u0-pineinfo at yahoo.co.uk (Dan) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Docx-format In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Aug 2010, Riku Virtanen wrote: > But I have not found any program for docx. I know that > Openoffice.org opens docx, but that program is not compatible for > the command prompt side. It runs only in the graphical side. soffice -invisible will run OpenOffice from the command line when no "graphical side" is available. Sources around the web suggest three options for using this to convert other formats to PDF, which you could then pass to your usual PDF handling method. 1. set up a PDF conversion macro, e.g. 2. set up a PDF printer, and use the -pt command line option to print to that printer, e.g. 3. use a script like PyODConverter Disclaimer: I've only tested the ability to run OpenOffice without a graphical interface, not the conversion methods. -- HTH, Dan From matias.364 at gmail.com Wed Aug 25 10:19:38 2010 From: matias.364 at gmail.com (matias kaukonen) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] delete duplicates Message-ID: For some unexplicable reason (which the SA could not figure out) I keep getting dulicate emails. Could someone pls post how to delete duplicates from within alpine. Or, could they suggest an alternative that is easy to understand and use. thx., Matias From friese74 at googlemail.com Wed Aug 25 14:45:44 2010 From: friese74 at googlemail.com (Udo Efkes) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:49 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] delete duplicates In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Matias, I don't know how to delete duplicates in alpine. But I used before kmail (part of KDE) as email client. And it has an option (located in the menu "folder" (Men? "Ordner" in German translation)) to delete duplicates. Perhaps this may be suitable for you. And then switch pls back to (re-)alpine. :-) Regards Udo Efkes On Wed, 25 Aug 2010, matias kaukonen wrote: > Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 13:19:38 -0400 > From: matias kaukonen > To: alpine-info@u.washington.edu > Subject: [Alpine-info] delete duplicates > > For some unexplicable reason (which the SA could not figure out) I keep > getting dulicate emails. Could someone pls post how to delete duplicates > from within alpine. Or, could they suggest an alternative that is easy > to understand and use. > > thx., > Matias > _______________________________________________ > Alpine-info mailing list > Alpine-info@u.washington.edu > http://mailman13.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/alpine-info >