From bret at busby.net Sun May 2 02:10:16 2010 From: bret at busby.net (Bret Busby) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Request for changes to method of operation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, 1 May 2010, Geoff Shang wrote: > Date: Sat, 1 May 2010 09:49:48 +0300 (IDT) > From: Geoff Shang > To: Alpine-info@u.washington.edu > Subject: Re: [Alpine-info] Request for changes to method of operation > > On Sat, 1 May 2010, Bret Busby wrote: > >> As an example of an issue with the way that the action is currently >> performed, if I go through various folders, looking for all messages >> relating to a paricular topic, and, copy/move the messages to a single, >> specific, folder, and then I sort the messages in that folder, using the >> criterion of arrival, I may find that messages that arrived after 01 >> January 2010, precede messages that arrived before 31 December 2005. > > Why don't you just sort by date? > > As I understand it, an arrival sort is equivalent to no sorting, which is > personally what I'd expect. > > Geoff. > > One reason for not sorting by date at present (or, it not being effective), is in the previous message that I posted in the thread. -- Bret Busby Armadale West Australia .............. "So once you do know what the question actually is, you'll know what the answer means." - Deep Thought, Chapter 28 of Book 1 of "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: A Trilogy In Four Parts", written by Douglas Adams, published by Pan Books, 1992 .................................................... From bret at busby.net Sun May 2 22:11:06 2010 From: bret at busby.net (Bret Busby) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Request for changes to method of operation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, 1 May 2010, Bret Busby wrote: > > Hello. > > I am not sure how to do this, for this particular issue; whether it should be > done as a "Feature Request", or, as I have done, as a "Request for change to > method of operation". > > Anyway, here goes... > > I have two changes to the method of operation, that I request. > > When ALPINE (and, before it, PINE), performs operations using the date > criterion, from what I understand, it uses the datestamp of each particular > message, without involving the timezone, and thus, for example, if all > messages within a folder, are to have an operation performed on them, > depending on the date, for example, "move all messages with date before 31 > December 2009 to new folder", then messages sent with timestamps of the > senders' timezones, where at the time of sending the message, the time at the > sender's mailserver (I here, use the term "mailserver", rather than computer, > as some people use webmail to send messages, and thus, I, in timezone > UTC+0800, could be using a webmail facility that is timestamped UTC-1100), > was before 31 December 2009, will be acted upon, and, others will not. > > What this means, is that messages that were sent before some of the messages > that are acted upon, will not be acted upon. > > For example, here, the timezone, as should be shown in the header of this > message, is UTC+0800. Another timezone may be UTC-1500; 23 hours behind this > timezone. In performing manual archiving of messages, for example, in a > folder that is not subject to the automated monthly archiving, and, moving > all messages dated before 01 January , messages that were sent > with timestamps that are after midnight of 31 December, at the location here, > from a timezone UTC-1500, will not be acted upon. > > So, my request for change, is that actions performed on the criterion of the > time either relative to the recipient's timezone, or, relative to UTC, > perhaps, with a switch that can be set by the user, as to whether actions > that are performed according to message datestamps, are perfomed according to > a message's timestamp relative to UTC, or, relative to the user's timezone. > Personally, as some timezones are subject to deviance, such as "Daylight > Time", where the governments change the timezone on a seasonal basis, I > believe that filtering on timestamps, relative to UTC, would be most > appropriate. > > So, that is my first requested change for method of operation; that > operations that are performed on messages, using the criterion of he message > timestamp, use the timestamp relative to UTC (or, the recipient's timezone, > if wanted by the user), rather than the timestamp within the sender's > timezone. > Also, similarly, when the messages are listed in their respective folders, if the timestamp displayed for each message, could be converted ito either UTC time, or, the user's timezone time (but, and, importantly, without affecting the timestamp as displayed in the message header, which shows the timezone of the computer from which the message was sent, when viewing each message), in the listing of messages, it would make viewing the lists of messages, more user-friendly. An example of the apparent chaotic (from the displayed message times) listing of messages, is shown in the attached screenshot image (I have attached it - whether this mailing list will strip or retain the attachment, I do not as yet know). Thus, that requested change would also make the software, more user-friendly. Thank you in anticipation. -- Bret Busby Armadale West Australia .............. "So once you do know what the question actually is, you'll know what the answer means." - Deep Thought, Chapter 28 of Book 1 of "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: A Trilogy In Four Parts", written by Douglas Adams, published by Pan Books, 1992 .................................................... -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ALPINE_Screenshot_201005031258.png Type: image/png Size: 214408 bytes Desc: ALPINE screenshot URL: From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Mon May 3 08:28:00 2010 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Request for changes to method of operation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 3 May 2010, Bret Busby wrote: > Also, similarly, when the messages are listed in their respective > folders, if the timestamp displayed for each message, could be converted > ito either UTC time, or, the user's timezone time (but, and, > importantly, without affecting the timestamp as displayed in the message > header, which shows the timezone of the computer from which the message > was sent, when viewing each message), in the listing of messages, it > would make viewing the lists of messages, more user-friendly. > > An example of the apparent chaotic (from the displayed message times) > listing of messages, is shown in the attached screenshot image (I have > attached it - whether this mailing list will strip or retain the > attachment, I do not as yet know). > > Thus, that requested change would also make the software, more > user-friendly. > > Thank you in anticipation. I see that you are from Australia, so you have more problems than most of us. I get messages from Australia that say they were sent "Tomorrow". I think what we need is an option to display "local date" in the index. Before recommending this I decided to look in the setup configuration and found this: [ Message Index Preferences ] [ ] Auto Open Next Unread [ ] Continue NextNew Without Confirming [ ] Convert Dates To Localtime I put an X in the "Convert Dates To Localtime" box and, voila, I have what I wanted. Then I discovered that I prefer this to the SMARTDATETIME24 that I had been using in "Index Format": DAYOFWEEKABBREV(3) DATEISO(10) TIME24(5) Now my message index shows your message date like this... Mon 2010-05-03 00:11 ...but in your message header it looks like this: Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 13:11:06 +0800 (WST) Mike From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Mon May 3 08:34:34 2010 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] bug in PREFDATETIME In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: In the help section for "Index Format" under Setup Configuration, I see this option: PREFDATETIME This token represents the date and time at which the message was sent, according to the "Date" header field. It is the preferred date and time representation for the current locale. Internally it uses the %c version of the time from the strftime routine. On my system (Ubuntu 9.10), I see this: $ date +%c Mon 03 May 2010 10:14:15 AM CDT When I use PREFDATETIME in the Index Format, it does have that format, but every date begins with "Sun" (Sunday) instead of the correct day of the week. If there is a bug list, I can submit there, but I don't know where that list is. Mike From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Mon May 3 08:38:55 2010 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] bug in GOTO Message-ID: If I'm in a message folder and I use 'g' (GOTO) to jump to another folder, and I enter a nonexistent folder name, Alpine jumps to the top of the current message folder. I don't see why this should be the desired behavior and I can see how it causes trouble -- the sudden change in what is on the screen could be misinterpreted as a successful change to the requested folder (which was misspelled). I think it would be better for no change to occur in the current message index when GOTO fails. Mike From bl10 at cam.ac.uk Mon May 3 08:57:31 2010 From: bl10 at cam.ac.uk (Barry Landy) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] bug in GOTO In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 3 May 2010, Mike Miller wrote: :>If I'm in a message folder and I use 'g' (GOTO) to jump to another folder, and :>I enter a nonexistent folder name, Alpine jumps to the top of the current :>message folder. I don't see why this should be the desired behavior and I can :>see how it causes trouble -- the sudden change in what is on the screen could :>be misinterpreted as a successful change to the requested folder (which was :>misspelled). I think it would be better for no change to occur in the current :>message index when GOTO fails. On my system using AlPine for OS2 and Alpine under windows it does just what you request, -- Barry Landy Home: +44-1223-570417 192, Gilbert Road College: +44-1223-472134 Cambridge CB4 3PB Efax: +44-870-458-0205 England Email BL10@cam.ac.uk From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Mon May 3 09:05:14 2010 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Request for changes to method of operation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 3 May 2010, Mike Miller wrote: > I discovered that I prefer this to the SMARTDATETIME24 that I had been > using in "Index Format": > > DAYOFWEEKABBREV(3) DATEISO(10) TIME24(5) > > Now my message index shows your message date like this... > > Mon 2010-05-03 00:11 FYI, this is what I'm using in the message index now: ATT STATUS MSGNO TEXT:" " DAYOFWEEKABBREV(3) DATEISO(10) TIME24(6) FROMORTO(28%) SIZENARROW SUBJKEY(72%) I added "TEXT" and changed TIME24(5) to TIME24(6) to put an extra space on either side of the data fields. I almost always use an xterm that is 206 characters across, so this works for me, but it is not compact. Mike From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Mon May 3 09:06:24 2010 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] bug in GOTO In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 3 May 2010, Barry Landy wrote: > On Mon, 3 May 2010, Mike Miller wrote: > > :>If I'm in a message folder and I use 'g' (GOTO) to jump to another folder, and > :>I enter a nonexistent folder name, Alpine jumps to the top of the current > :>message folder. I don't see why this should be the desired behavior and I can > :>see how it causes trouble -- the sudden change in what is on the screen could > :>be misinterpreted as a successful change to the requested folder (which was > :>misspelled). I think it would be better for no change to occur in the current > :>message index when GOTO fails. > > On my system using AlPine for OS2 and Alpine under windows it does just > what you request, I wonder if it is an OS difference or a configuration difference. Mike From bret at busby.net Mon May 3 09:15:20 2010 From: bret at busby.net (Bret Busby) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Request for changes to method of operation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 3 May 2010, Bret Busby wrote: > > On Sat, 1 May 2010, Bret Busby wrote: > >> >> Hello. >> >> I am not sure how to do this, for this particular issue; whether it should >> be done as a "Feature Request", or, as I have done, as a "Request for >> change to method of operation". >> >> Anyway, here goes... >> >> I have two changes to the method of operation, that I request. >> >> When ALPINE (and, before it, PINE), performs operations using the date >> criterion, from what I understand, it uses the datestamp of each particular >> message, without involving the timezone, and thus, for example, if all >> messages within a folder, are to have an operation performed on them, >> depending on the date, for example, "move all messages with date before 31 >> December 2009 to new folder", then messages sent with timestamps of the >> senders' timezones, where at the time of sending the message, the time at >> the sender's mailserver (I here, use the term "mailserver", rather than >> computer, as some people use webmail to send messages, and thus, I, in >> timezone UTC+0800, could be using a webmail facility that is timestamped >> UTC-1100), was before 31 December 2009, will be acted upon, and, others >> will not. >> >> What this means, is that messages that were sent before some of the >> messages that are acted upon, will not be acted upon. >> >> For example, here, the timezone, as should be shown in the header of this >> message, is UTC+0800. Another timezone may be UTC-1500; 23 hours behind >> this timezone. In performing manual archiving of messages, for example, in >> a folder that is not subject to the automated monthly archiving, and, >> moving all messages dated before 01 January , messages that >> were sent with timestamps that are after midnight of 31 December, at the >> location here, from a timezone UTC-1500, will not be acted upon. >> >> So, my request for change, is that actions performed on the criterion of >> the time either relative to the recipient's timezone, or, relative to UTC, >> perhaps, with a switch that can be set by the user, as to whether actions >> that are performed according to message datestamps, are perfomed according >> to a message's timestamp relative to UTC, or, relative to the user's >> timezone. Personally, as some timezones are subject to deviance, such as >> "Daylight Time", where the governments change the timezone on a seasonal >> basis, I believe that filtering on timestamps, relative to UTC, would be >> most appropriate. >> >> So, that is my first requested change for method of operation; that >> operations that are performed on messages, using the criterion of he >> message timestamp, use the timestamp relative to UTC (or, the recipient's >> timezone, if wanted by the user), rather than the timestamp within the >> sender's timezone. >> > > Also, similarly, when the messages are listed in their respective folders, if > the timestamp displayed for each message, could be converted ito either UTC > time, or, the user's timezone time (but, and, importantly, without affecting > the timestamp as displayed in the message header, which shows the timezone of > the computer from which the message was sent, when viewing each message), in > the listing of messages, it would make viewing the lists of messages, more > user-friendly. > > An example of the apparent chaotic (from the displayed message times) listing > of messages, is shown in the attached screenshot image (I have attached it - > whether this mailing list will strip or retain the attachment, I do not as > yet know). > > Thus, that requested change would also make the software, more user-friendly. > > Thank you in anticipation. > > -- > Bret Busby > Armadale > West Australia > .............. > I have found that that option apparently already exists; S -> C -> Message Index Preferences Check/Select option "Change times to local timezone" or similar . -- Bret Busby Armadale West Australia .............. "So once you do know what the question actually is, you'll know what the answer means." - Deep Thought, Chapter 28 of Book 1 of "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: A Trilogy In Four Parts", written by Douglas Adams, published by Pan Books, 1992 .................................................... From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Mon May 3 14:42:37 2010 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Request for changes to method of operation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 3 May 2010, Mike Miller wrote: > On Mon, 3 May 2010, Mike Miller wrote: > >> I discovered that I prefer this to the SMARTDATETIME24 that I had been >> using in "Index Format": >> >> DAYOFWEEKABBREV(3) DATEISO(10) TIME24(5) >> >> Now my message index shows your message date like this... >> >> Mon 2010-05-03 00:11 > > FYI, this is what I'm using in the message index now: > > ATT STATUS MSGNO TEXT:" " DAYOFWEEKABBREV(3) DATEISO(10) TIME24(6) FROMORTO(28%) SIZENARROW SUBJKEY(72%) > > I added "TEXT" and changed TIME24(5) to TIME24(6) to put an extra space > on either side of the data fields. I almost always use an xterm that is > 206 characters across, so this works for me, but it is not compact. Well, I changed my mind about that one too because I really like seeing the month instead of a number (e.g., Apr instead of 04), so I thought I would like "DAYDATE" because it does a format like "Sat, 23 Oct 1998", but I didn't like it because the date is shorter for the first 9 days of every month which looks a little messy, so I thought I'd build my own and I did it this way: ATT STATUS MSGNO TEXT:" " DAYOFWEEKABBREV(3) DAY2DIGIT MONTHABBREV YEAR TIME24(6) FROMORTO(28%) SIZENARROW SUBJKEY(72%) I would have added the comma after the day of the week, but that might not be possible because of the space added after that field. Here's a suggestion for developers: Make it so that when there is a text field, no space is added before the text field. Maybe that would be hard to do. Now no space is added after the text field, which is great, but there is a space before it. If that is considered something that should be set by the preceding field, OK, but how can we do that? I can make the field smaller but I can't get rid of that space. Mike From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Mon May 3 14:57:03 2010 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] bug in GOTO In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 3 May 2010, Mike Miller wrote: > On Mon, 3 May 2010, Barry Landy wrote: > >> On Mon, 3 May 2010, Mike Miller wrote: >> >>> If I'm in a message folder and I use 'g' (GOTO) to jump to another >>> folder, and I enter a nonexistent folder name, Alpine jumps to the top >>> of the current message folder. I don't see why this should be the >>> desired behavior and I can see how it causes trouble -- the sudden >>> change in what is on the screen could be misinterpreted as a >>> successful change to the requested folder (which was misspelled). I >>> think it would be better for no change to occur in the current message >>> index when GOTO fails. >> >> On my system using AlPine for OS2 and Alpine under windows it does just >> what you request, > > I wonder if it is an OS difference or a configuration difference. I figured out that this happens on my system only when the folder I am trying to go to is not an incoming folder. When the target folder is an incoming folder that doesn't exist, the cursor position in the index does not change, there is no beep, and I see this on the screen ("asdfa" was the name of the nonexistent folder): [Can't find Incoming Folder asdfa.] When the folder is a normal mail folder, not incoming, the cursor position in the index jumps to the top, I hear a beep, and I see this on the screen (again, "asdfa" was the name of the nonexistent folder): [Can't open folder mail/asdfa: no such folder] So the pathological behavior is only when I am trying to GOTO a nonexistent mail folder and not to a nonexistent incoming folder. Furthermore, it does not jump to the top when the current folder is INBOX, but it does it in every other folder I have tested. If you could, Barry, let us know if this is what you see in OS2 and Windows. Thanks. Mike From alpine at benizi.com Mon May 3 15:58:52 2010 From: alpine at benizi.com (Benjamin R. Haskell) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Request for changes to method of operation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 3 May 2010, Mike Miller wrote: > On Mon, 3 May 2010, Mike Miller wrote: > > > On Mon, 3 May 2010, Mike Miller wrote: > > > > > I discovered that I prefer this to the SMARTDATETIME24 that I had > > > been using in "Index Format": > > > > > > DAYOFWEEKABBREV(3) DATEISO(10) TIME24(5) > > > > > > Now my message index shows your message date like this... > > > > > > Mon 2010-05-03 00:11 > > > > FYI, this is what I'm using in the message index now: > > > > ATT STATUS MSGNO TEXT:" " DAYOFWEEKABBREV(3) DATEISO(10) TIME24(6) > > FROMORTO(28%) SIZENARROW SUBJKEY(72%) > > > > I added "TEXT" and changed TIME24(5) to TIME24(6) to put an extra > > space on either side of the data fields. I almost always use an > > xterm that is 206 characters across, so this works for me, but it is > > not compact. > > > Well, I changed my mind about that one too because I really like > seeing the month instead of a number (e.g., Apr instead of 04), so I > thought I would like "DAYDATE" because it does a format like "Sat, 23 > Oct 1998", but I didn't like it because the date is shorter for the > first 9 days of every month which looks a little messy, so I thought > I'd build my own and I did it this way: > > ATT STATUS MSGNO TEXT:" " DAYOFWEEKABBREV(3) DAY2DIGIT MONTHABBREV > YEAR TIME24(6) FROMORTO(28%) SIZENARROW SUBJKEY(72%) > > I would have added the comma after the day of the week, but that might > not be possible because of the space added after that field. Maybe adding an empty text field would work in this case (not sure it's possible)? e.g.: ...MSGNO TEXT:"" DAYOFWEEKABBREV(3)... > Here's a suggestion for developers: Make it so that when there is a > text field, no space is added before the text field. Maybe that would > be hard to do. Now no space is added after the text field, which is > great, but there is a space before it. If that is considered > something that should be set by the preceding field, OK, but how can > we do that? I can make the field smaller but I can't get rid of that > space. If someone gets around to it, this might be a good thing to look into while considering changes to how Re:/Fwd: strings are calculated. Frankly, I think it'd be better (as I said with those strings) to go with better syntax than the current/past token-based settings. e.g. (just as a partial example) %ATT%STATUS %MSGNO %{DAYOFWEEKABBREV:3} ... %{FROMORTO:28%} With the % and %{} (or $ and ${}, no real pref here), the fields are more explicit, and the spacing can be whatever the user wants (no space between ATT and STATUS; two between MSGNO and DAYOFWEEKABBREV(3)). It'd also be nice to see strftime-style dates, and maybe the index format itself could specify whether to convert to localtime: %{DATE:%Y-%m-%d %H:%M} -> 2010-05-03 18:50 %{LOCALDATE:%Y-%m-%d %H:%M} -> 2010-05-03 22:50 (I'm in -0400 right now) Without major changes, I don't foresee the one vs. two spaces getting changed -- I kind of suspect no one has all three of: 1. motivation to do this (through annoyance or pure interest) 2. enough familiarity with the code to do it (or could get it) 3. and tuits of the round variety to make this happen. (Sorry for the pessimism, but that's my guess, seeing as how my levels are currently: 1:100%, 2:40%, 3:10%) -- Best, Ben From alpine at benizi.com Mon May 3 16:02:32 2010 From: alpine at benizi.com (Benjamin R. Haskell) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Request for changes to method of operation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 3 May 2010, Benjamin R. Haskell wrote: > [...] > It'd also be nice to see strftime-style dates, and maybe the index > format itself could specify whether to convert to localtime: > > %{DATE:%Y-%m-%d %H:%M} -> 2010-05-03 18:50 > %{LOCALDATE:%Y-%m-%d %H:%M} -> 2010-05-03 22:50 (I'm in -0400 right now) %{DATE:%Y-%m-%d %H:%M} -> 2010-05-03 22:50 %{LOCALDATE:%Y-%m-%d %H:%M} -> 2010-05-03 18:50 (I'm in -0400 right now) Oops, reversed those. And maybe DATE and HEADERDATE could be synonyms, along with LOCALDATE+SENDERDATE, or others. -- Best, Ben From chappa at u.washington.edu Mon May 3 19:30:21 2010 From: chappa at u.washington.edu (Eduardo Chappa) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] bug in PREFDATETIME In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 3 May 2010, Mike Miller wrote: MM> When I use PREFDATETIME in the Index Format, it does have that format, MM> but every date begins with "Sun" (Sunday) instead of the correct day MM> of the week. That's because in your life every day is a sunday :). Yes, you are right. There is a missing line in the date_str function. I just posted a patch in my page that adds this missing line. Patch at http://staff.washington.edu/chappa/alpine/info/preftimebug.html -- Eduardo http://staff.washington.edu/chappa/alpine/ From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Mon May 3 20:01:15 2010 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] bug in PREFDATETIME In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 3 May 2010, Eduardo Chappa wrote: > On Mon, 3 May 2010, Mike Miller wrote: > > MM> When I use PREFDATETIME in the Index Format, it does have that format, > MM> but every date begins with "Sun" (Sunday) instead of the correct day > MM> of the week. > > That's because in your life every day is a sunday :). > > Yes, you are right. There is a missing line in the date_str function. I > just posted a patch in my page that adds this missing line. > > Patch at http://staff.washington.edu/chappa/alpine/info/preftimebug.html Muchas gracias, Eduardo. (We speak mostly Spanish around the house because my wife is from Ecuador and we want our daughter to be bilingual.) Do we have to tell them here on LaunchPad?: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/alpine/+bug/574671 Mike From bl10 at cam.ac.uk Mon May 3 23:56:25 2010 From: bl10 at cam.ac.uk (Barry Landy) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] bug in GOTO In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 3 May 2010, Mike Miller wrote: :>On Mon, 3 May 2010, Mike Miller wrote: :> :>> On Mon, 3 May 2010, Barry Landy wrote: :>> :>> > On Mon, 3 May 2010, Mike Miller wrote: :>> > :>> > > If I'm in a message folder and I use 'g' (GOTO) to jump to another :>> > > folder, and I enter a nonexistent folder name, Alpine jumps to the top :>> > > of the current message folder. I don't see why this should be the :>> > > desired behavior and I can see how it causes trouble -- the sudden :>> > > change in what is on the screen could be misinterpreted as a successful :>> > > change to the requested folder (which was misspelled). I think it would :>> > > be better for no change to occur in the current message index when GOTO :>> > > fails. :>> > :>> > On my system using AlPine for OS2 and Alpine under windows it does just :>> > what you request, :>> :>> I wonder if it is an OS difference or a configuration difference. :> :> :>I figured out that this happens on my system only when the folder I am trying :>to go to is not an incoming folder. When the target folder is an incoming :>folder that doesn't exist, the cursor position in the index does not change, :>there is no beep, and I see this on the screen ("asdfa" was the name of the :>nonexistent folder): :> :>[Can't find Incoming Folder asdfa.] :> :>When the folder is a normal mail folder, not incoming, the cursor position in :>the index jumps to the top, I hear a beep, and I see this on the screen :>(again, "asdfa" was the name of the nonexistent folder): :> :>[Can't open folder mail/asdfa: no such folder] :> :>So the pathological behavior is only when I am trying to GOTO a nonexistent :>mail folder and not to a nonexistent incoming folder. :> :>Furthermore, it does not jump to the top when the current folder is INBOX, but :>it does it in every other folder I have tested. :> :>If you could, Barry, let us know if this is what you see in OS2 and Windows. :>Thanks. :> :>Mike It appears to be very inconsistent and NOT to happen most of the time. I see no OS2/Windows difference. I have FOUR different folder-collections (mainly remote) incoming main folder collection on a server news local folders (PC files) the last being a relic that i could delete. I get DIFFERENT messages if the folder I am trying to GOTO does not exist, the most different being the news collection Mostly the message is "folder does not exist" If trying to go to a folder in the incoming collection the message is "cant find incoming folder xx" If I try to go to a non existent folder in the PC collection the message is cant open folder mail\xx: folder does not ixist and if I try to go to a non existent news folder the message is 502 not allowed to read xxx Some consistency there would be nice! As to which message I am pointing at after the failure the only case in which I am consistently pointed at message 1 is when a PC folder is open and I am trying to go to a folder on the server. ON THE OTHER HAND I have discovered circumstances in which I am moved to the last message in a folder! If I am at message N in the index of a folder on the server and try to go to a folder on the PC then after the error I will be at the last message! And even odder: If I am reading message N of a folder on the server and try to go to a folder on the PC then after the error I will be in the index and at the last message! Obviously this whole area needs investigating and tidying by someone sometime. Thanks Mike for finding this oddity -- Barry Landy Home: +44-1223-570417 192, Gilbert Road College: +44-1223-472134 Cambridge CB4 3PB Efax: +44-870-458-0205 England Email BL10@cam.ac.uk From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Tue May 4 07:54:54 2010 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] bug in GOTO In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > On Mon, 3 May 2010, Mike Miller wrote: > > :>On Mon, 3 May 2010, Mike Miller wrote: > :> > :>> On Mon, 3 May 2010, Barry Landy wrote: > :>> > :>> > On Mon, 3 May 2010, Mike Miller wrote: > :>> > > :>> > > If I'm in a message folder and I use 'g' (GOTO) to jump to another > :>> > > folder, and I enter a nonexistent folder name, Alpine jumps to the top > :>> > > of the current message folder. I don't see why this should be the > :>> > > desired behavior and I can see how it causes trouble -- the sudden > :>> > > change in what is on the screen could be misinterpreted as a successful > :>> > > change to the requested folder (which was misspelled). I think it would > :>> > > be better for no change to occur in the current message index when GOTO > :>> > > fails. > :>> > > :>> > On my system using AlPine for OS2 and Alpine under windows it does just > :>> > what you request, > :>> > :>> I wonder if it is an OS difference or a configuration difference. > :> > :> > :>I figured out that this happens on my system only when the folder I am trying > :>to go to is not an incoming folder. When the target folder is an incoming > :>folder that doesn't exist, the cursor position in the index does not change, > :>there is no beep, and I see this on the screen ("asdfa" was the name of the > :>nonexistent folder): > :> > :>[Can't find Incoming Folder asdfa.] > :> > :>When the folder is a normal mail folder, not incoming, the cursor position in > :>the index jumps to the top, I hear a beep, and I see this on the screen > :>(again, "asdfa" was the name of the nonexistent folder): > :> > :>[Can't open folder mail/asdfa: no such folder] > :> > :>So the pathological behavior is only when I am trying to GOTO a nonexistent > :>mail folder and not to a nonexistent incoming folder. > :> > :>Furthermore, it does not jump to the top when the current folder is INBOX, but > :>it does it in every other folder I have tested. > :> > :>If you could, Barry, let us know if this is what you see in OS2 and Windows. > :>Thanks. > :> > :>Mike > On Tue, 4 May 2010, Barry Landy wrote: > It appears to be very inconsistent and NOT to happen most of the time. I > see no OS2/Windows difference. > > I have FOUR different folder-collections (mainly remote) > > incoming > > main folder collection on a server > > news > > local folders (PC files) > > the last being a relic that i could delete. > > I get DIFFERENT messages if the folder I am trying to GOTO does not > exist, the most different being the news collection > > Mostly the message is "folder does not exist" > > If trying to go to a folder in the incoming collection the message is > > "cant find incoming folder xx" > > If I try to go to a non existent folder in the PC collection the message > is > > cant open folder mail\xx: folder does not ixist > > and if I try to go to a non existent news folder the message is > > 502 not allowed to read xxx > > Some consistency there would be nice! On Ubuntu 9.10 with Alpine 2.00 (Ubuntu package)... For news folders I get this: [Problem accessing folder "xx"] and it does not point me to the top message in the current folder. For Gmail IMAP folders I get this: [Unknown Folder: xx (Failure)] and it points me to the top message of the current folder. > As to which message I am pointing at after the failure the only case in > which I am consistently pointed at message 1 is when a PC folder is open > and I am trying to go to a folder on the server. > > ON THE OTHER HAND > I have discovered circumstances in which I am moved to the last message > in a folder! > > If I am at message N in the index of a folder on the server and try to > go to a folder on the PC then after the error I will be at the last > message! > > And even odder: If I am reading message N of a folder on the server and > try to go to a folder on the PC then after the error I will be in the > index and at the last message! > > Obviously this whole area needs investigating and tidying by someone > sometime. > > Thanks Mike for finding this oddity My pleasure. It has been bugging me for years -- I'm pretty sure it was there in Pine too. I never realized that the conditions were so complex and the behavior was so variable. I don't misspell folder names every day and I never noticed that it only did weird things under certain conditions. In case it matters, I'm using mbox mail folders. Mike From bl10 at cam.ac.uk Tue May 4 08:01:47 2010 From: bl10 at cam.ac.uk (Barry Landy) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] bug in GOTO In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 4 May 2010, Mike Miller wrote: :>> On Mon, 3 May 2010, Mike Miller wrote: :>> :>> :>On Mon, 3 May 2010, Mike Miller wrote: :>> :> :>> :>> On Mon, 3 May 2010, Barry Landy wrote: :>> :>> :>> :>> > On Mon, 3 May 2010, Mike Miller wrote: :>> :>> > :>> :>> > > If I'm in a message folder and I use 'g' (GOTO) to jump to another :>> :>> > > folder, and I enter a nonexistent folder name, Alpine jumps to the :>> top :>> :>> > > of the current message folder. I don't see why this should be the :>> :>> > > desired behavior and I can see how it causes trouble -- the sudden :>> :>> > > change in what is on the screen could be misinterpreted as a :>> successful :>> :>> > > change to the requested folder (which was misspelled). I think it :>> would :>> :>> > > be better for no change to occur in the current message index when :>> GOTO :>> :>> > > fails. :>> :>> > :>> :>> > On my system using AlPine for OS2 and Alpine under windows it does :>> just :>> :>> > what you request, :>> :>> :>> :>> I wonder if it is an OS difference or a configuration difference. :>> :> :>> :> :>> :>I figured out that this happens on my system only when the folder I am :>> trying :>> :>to go to is not an incoming folder. When the target folder is an incoming :>> :>folder that doesn't exist, the cursor position in the index does not :>> change, :>> :>there is no beep, and I see this on the screen ("asdfa" was the name of :>> the :>> :>nonexistent folder): :>> :> :>> :>[Can't find Incoming Folder asdfa.] :>> :> :>> :>When the folder is a normal mail folder, not incoming, the cursor position :>> in :>> :>the index jumps to the top, I hear a beep, and I see this on the screen :>> :>(again, "asdfa" was the name of the nonexistent folder): :>> :> :>> :>[Can't open folder mail/asdfa: no such folder] :>> :> :>> :>So the pathological behavior is only when I am trying to GOTO a :>> nonexistent :>> :>mail folder and not to a nonexistent incoming folder. :>> :> :>> :>Furthermore, it does not jump to the top when the current folder is INBOX, :>> but :>> :>it does it in every other folder I have tested. :>> :> :>> :>If you could, Barry, let us know if this is what you see in OS2 and :>> Windows. :>> :>Thanks. :>> :> :>> :>Mike :>> :> :> :> :> :>On Tue, 4 May 2010, Barry Landy wrote: :> :>> It appears to be very inconsistent and NOT to happen most of the time. I see :>> no OS2/Windows difference. :>> :>> I have FOUR different folder-collections (mainly remote) :>> :>> incoming :>> :>> main folder collection on a server :>> :>> news :>> :>> local folders (PC files) :>> :>> the last being a relic that i could delete. :>> :>> I get DIFFERENT messages if the folder I am trying to GOTO does not exist, :>> the most different being the news collection :>> :>> Mostly the message is "folder does not exist" :>> :>> If trying to go to a folder in the incoming collection the message is :>> :>> "cant find incoming folder xx" :>> :>> If I try to go to a non existent folder in the PC collection the message :>> is :>> :>> cant open folder mail\xx: folder does not ixist :>> :>> and if I try to go to a non existent news folder the message is :>> :>> 502 not allowed to read xxx :>> :>> Some consistency there would be nice! :> :> :>On Ubuntu 9.10 with Alpine 2.00 (Ubuntu package)... :> :>For news folders I get this: :> :>[Problem accessing folder "xx"] :> :>and it does not point me to the top message in the current folder. :> :> :>For Gmail IMAP folders I get this: :> :>[Unknown Folder: xx (Failure)] :> :>and it points me to the top message of the current folder. :> :> :>> As to which message I am pointing at after the failure the only case in :>> which I am consistently pointed at message 1 is when a PC folder is open and :>> I am trying to go to a folder on the server. :>> :>> ON THE OTHER HAND :>> I have discovered circumstances in which I am moved to the last message :>> in a folder! :>> :>> If I am at message N in the index of a folder on the server and try to go to :>> a folder on the PC then after the error I will be at the last message! :>> :>> And even odder: If I am reading message N of a folder on the server and try :>> to go to a folder on the PC then after the error I will be in the index and :>> at the last message! :>> :>> Obviously this whole area needs investigating and tidying by someone :>> sometime. :>> :>> Thanks Mike for finding this oddity :> :> :>My pleasure. It has been bugging me for years -- I'm pretty sure it was there :>in Pine too. I never realized that the conditions were so complex and the :>behavior was so variable. I don't misspell folder names every day and I never :>noticed that it only did weird things under certain conditions. :> :>In case it matters, I'm using mbox mail folders. :> :>Mike :> The PC folders are mbx I assume -- Barry Landy Home: +44-1223-570417 192, Gilbert Road College: +44-1223-472134 Cambridge CB4 3PB Efax: +44-870-458-0205 England Email BL10@cam.ac.uk From tekberg at u.washington.edu Tue May 4 14:53:29 2010 From: tekberg at u.washington.edu (tekberg@u.washington.edu) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Alpine web interface - move to folder Message-ID: I like to organize my email in folders, but I'm constantly fighting with the 'Move To Folder' menu which only allows for 6 folders. When I specify a folder that isn't in that list it bumps out another folder. Is there a way of increasing the Alpine web interface to increase the 'Move To Folder' to show more than 6 folders? --tom From bikefridaywalter at gmail.com Wed May 5 10:52:38 2010 From: bikefridaywalter at gmail.com (bikefridaywalter@gmail.com) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] GMAIL: multiple IMAP accounts in one folder; folder aliases Message-ID: Folks, As a n00b here, I'd like to thank the developers for their hard work. I am elated to find CLI client that's as powerful as a GUI one. To get down to business I'm using alpine primarily to check a variety of Gmail accounts I have. Overall, I'm quite pleased, especially given my discovery of the roles, since it allows me to change the Fcc to [Gmail]/Sent Mail. One thing that I wish I had, though, was the ability to check all of the accounts at once. I thought Incoming Folders might offer me this ability but it didn't seem to, though perhaps I don't know what I'm doing. Any advice would be most appreciated. Lastly, for the mailing lists I'm on (where the content is accessible elsewhere), it's stupid for me to choke up my [Gmail]/All Mail with messages. So I save to [Gmail]/Trash. Unfortunately, though, I have to use something like {imap.gmail.com/ssl/user=me@gmail.com}[Gmail}/Trash and of course I have more than one. It sure would be nice to have an alias like trash1 or something. Is there such an option? Thanks in advance, Walter From chappa at u.washington.edu Fri May 7 14:44:22 2010 From: chappa at u.washington.edu (Eduardo Chappa) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] bug in PREFDATETIME In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 3 May 2010, Mike Miller wrote: MM> Do we have to tell them here on LaunchPad?: That's up to you. Asheesh is already a list member, so he is probably aware of the solution. In any case, there is another problem with the PREDTIME family of tokens, which is that no space is allocated for it in the screen. My patch now allocates enough space for each token to be displayed on the screen. The patch is available at http://staff.washington.edu/chappa/alpine/info/preftimebug.html -- Eduardo http://staff.washington.edu/chappa/alpine/ From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Mon May 10 09:26:13 2010 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] problem with regex matching in Alternate Addresses Message-ID: I have these alternate addresses listed in my configuration: ^mbmiller@.+ ^mbmiller\+.*@gmail.com$$ A message from this address is matching: mbmiller55@gmail.com It should not be matching. I also have this listed as an Alternate Address: ^miller01@.*msi.umn.edu$$ And this is not matching: miller01@nf.msi.umn.edu But it should be matching. >From the help page: "Because the regular expression matching is based on an old library (hs_regex) the regular expressions might not work exactly as you expect, but they should be close." It's not as close as I was expecting. Is this a bug or am I not getting something here? For completeness, and because it is conceivable that I'm not getting something here, this is really what I have listed in my config: Alternate Addresses = ^mbmiller@.+ ^mbmiller\+.*@gmail.com$$ ^mille444@umn.edu$$ ^mbmillermo@yahoo.com$$ ^net@taxa.psyc.missouri.edu$$ ^millermb@missouri.edu$$ ^miller_mb@epi.umn.edu$$ ^miller01@.*msi.umn.edu$$ Best, Mike From chappa at u.washington.edu Mon May 10 11:42:55 2010 From: chappa at u.washington.edu (Eduardo Chappa) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] problem with regex matching in Alternate Addresses In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 10 MAy 2010, Mike Miller wrote: :) From the help pAge: "BecAuse the regulAr expression mAtching is bAsed :) on An old librAry (hs_regex) the regulAr expressions might not work :) exActly As you expect, but they should be close." :) :) It's not As close As I wAs expecting. Is this A bug or Am I not :) getting something here? Do you build Alpine using the option --with-supplied-regex? If so, I hAve Also hAd problems with thAt librAry (reAd: the pc version of Alpine, not the linux version). I never use this librAry to build Alpine in Linux, And I Am hAppy with the wAy everything relAted to regulAr expression support works, becAuse thAt uses teh regex librAry thAt comes from the system And I hAve never hAd problems with thAt. In cAse this does not Apply to you, tAke A look At the journAl or the .debug files. They contAin informAtion on if there wAs An error. If you see nothing there it meAns thAt the only error is thAt regulAr expression did not mAtch. -- EduArdo http://stAff.wAshington.edu/chAppA/Alpine/ From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Mon May 10 12:34:14 2010 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] problem with regex matching in Alternate Addresses In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 10 May 2010, Eduardo Chappa wrote: > On Mon, 10 MAy 2010, Mike Miller wrote: > > :) From the help pAge: "BecAuse the regulAr expression mAtching is bAsed > :) on An old librAry (hs_regex) the regulAr expressions might not work > :) exActly As you expect, but they should be close." > :) > :) It's not As close As I wAs expecting. Is this A bug or Am I not > :) getting something here? > > Do you build Alpine using the option --with-supplied-regex? I installed the Ubuntu package for Alpine 2.00 and I don't know how they compiled it. > If so, I hAve Also hAd problems with thAt librAry (reAd: the pc version > of Alpine, not the linux version). I never use this librAry to build > Alpine in Linux, And I Am hAppy with the wAy everything relAted to > regulAr expression support works, becAuse thAt uses teh regex librAry > thAt comes from the system And I hAve never hAd problems with thAt. > > In cAse this does not Apply to you, tAke A look At the journAl or the > .debug files. They contAin informAtion on if there wAs An error. If you > see nothing there it meAns thAt the only error is thAt regulAr > expression did not mAtch. I guess my Alpine doesn't make debug files, either that or they are not where they used to be. > -- > EduArdo > http://stAff.wAshington.edu/chAppA/Alpine/ Strangely, every "a" was capitalized in your message as if some filter had translated every "a" to "A". Thanks, Eduardo. Mike From chappa at u.washington.edu Mon May 10 13:34:53 2010 From: chappa at u.washington.edu (Eduardo Chappa) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] problem with regex matching in Alternate Addresses In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 10 May 2010, Mike Miller wrote: :) > Do you build Alpine using the option --with-supplied-regex? :) :) I installed the Ubuntu package for Alpine 2.00 and I don't know how :) they compiled it. Hmm I don't know either. Maybe Asheesh will know (explicitly copying Asheesh in this message to call his attention on this thread). :) I guess my Alpine doesn't make debug files, either that or they are not :) where they used to be. Right, I think that for some reason Debian/Ubuntu distribute binaries that do not create debug files. I think the package that creates debug files is a separate one. :) > -- :) > EduArdo :) > http://stAff.wAshington.edu/chAppA/Alpine/ :) :) :) Strangely, every "a" was capitalized in your message as if some filter :) had translated every "a" to "A". Yup. I was testing sending filters over the weekend. I guess I forgot to unplug the filter. Sorry for the noise. -- Eduardo http://staff.washington.edu/chappa/alpine/ From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Mon May 10 14:46:40 2010 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] problem with regex matching in Alternate Addresses In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 10 May 2010, Eduardo Chappa wrote: > On Mon, 10 May 2010, Mike Miller wrote: > > :) I guess my Alpine doesn't make debug files, either that or they are > :) not where they used to be. > > Right, I think that for some reason Debian/Ubuntu distribute binaries > that do not create debug files. I think the package that creates debug > files is a separate one. There is an alpine-dbg package, or something like that. I just installed it to see if it would change anything, but I don't see a difference. I still don't get debug files in my home directory. There might be a way to get it to do something for me, but I don't know the tricks. Mike From ajmcello78 at gmail.com Wed May 12 01:33:44 2010 From: ajmcello78 at gmail.com (ajmcello) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] colors with alpine using html? Message-ID: Is it possible to do standard colors with alpine, like red, blue, green, etc using HTML? Or can alpine pass escape codes for color? I'm wanting to highlight keywords using alpine, that are generated from a script that E-mails me data. Thanks. From chappa at u.washington.edu Wed May 12 08:17:01 2010 From: chappa at u.washington.edu (Eduardo Chappa) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] colors with alpine using html? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 12 May 2010, ajmcello wrote: :) Is it possible to do standard colors with alpine, like red, blue, :) green, etc using HTML? Or can alpine pass escape codes for color? Neither of these. :) I'm wanting to highlight keywords using alpine, that are generated from :) a script that E-mails me data. I have a patch that allows you to highlight words. It even supports regular expressions. The link to the patch description is this: http://staff.washington.edu/chappa/alpine/info/colortext.html I hope this helps. -- Eduardo http://staff.washington.edu/chappa/alpine/ From ajmcello78 at gmail.com Wed May 12 10:57:11 2010 From: ajmcello78 at gmail.com (ajmcello) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] colors with alpine using html? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Eduardo, I think that will work for me! On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 8:17 AM, Eduardo Chappa References: Message-ID: On Wed, 12 May 2010, Eduardo Chappa wrote: > :) I'm wanting to highlight keywords using alpine, that are generated from > :) a script that E-mails me data. If you have a script that emails data, I'm guessing you are a UNIX/Linux guy and can deal with programs like "less". This allows you to quickly and easily view the content outside of Alpine. Try this: \ls --color=always -xd /dev/[cls]* | \alpine "" Send the message to yourself. Look at the message. It looks like garbage. But then use these Alpine commands... | Pipe ^Y Free Output ...and enter this as the pipe command: \less -R See? ("Q" to exit and return to Alpine.) It's really cool. You can use the ANSI specification for foreground and background color and bold font. Alpine remembers your last pipe command, so if you enter it once use it repeatedly. You could have the script generate text with ANSI color and send it to you. Then you just use pipe and less to read it. Another option is to have a perl script do a substitution on the normal text file to add the ANSI code and pipe it to less -R. Of course, you can't see the colors in Alpine, and I guess most mail readers don't do ANSI color. I would have sworn that Pine used to do this, though, at least under some conditions. It displays ANSI color in the headers but not in the text. Why can't Alpine display ANSI color in the message body of plain-text messages? That would be a cool option. Mike From lucio at lambrate.inaf.it Thu May 13 00:31:35 2010 From: lucio at lambrate.inaf.it (Lucio Chiappetti) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] colors with alpine using html? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 12 May 2010, Mike Miller wrote: > Of course, you can't see the colors in Alpine, and I guess most mail > readers don't do ANSI color. > Why can't Alpine display ANSI color in the message body of plain-text > messages? That would be a cool option. Perhaps. Provided it remains optional and disabled by default. Which is a kind way of saying "don't do it". I'm of the school "HTML mail is evil" (I even have a procmail rule which strips off any HTML attachment duplicating the plain text body), and so is any non-standard attempt to format the text. I like pine colour handling which the RECIPIENT can customize at one's own taste (not the sender's), and in the text body I use it to hilight signatures and URLs (plus lot of things in the message index), but I think that if the sender really thinks that a message MUST have hilighting, colour, fonts, graphics and whatever, he should provide it as e.g. a PDF attachment. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Lucio Chiappetti - INAF/IASF - via Bassini 15 - I-20133 Milano (Italy) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mit der Dummheit k?mpfen Against stupidity the gods G?tter selbst vergebens. themselves contend in vain (F.Schiller, Die Jungfrau von Orleans, III, 6 & I.Asimov) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ For more info : http://www.iasf-milano.inaf.it/~lucio/personal.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From holtzm at cox.net Thu May 13 01:40:50 2010 From: holtzm at cox.net (Robert Holtzman) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] colors with alpine using html? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 12 May 2010, Mike Miller wrote: > > Why can't Alpine display ANSI color in the message body of plain-text > messages? That would be a cool option. It might be if it takes a circus poster to hold your attention. Kewl, man. > > Mike > _______________________________________________ > Alpine-info mailing list > Alpine-info@u.washington.edu > http://mailman13.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/alpine-info > -- Bob Holtzman Key ID: 8D549279 "If you think you're getting free lunch, check the price of the beer" From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Thu May 13 12:58:12 2010 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] colors with alpine using html? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 13 May 2010, Lucio Chiappetti wrote: > On Wed, 12 May 2010, Mike Miller wrote: > >> Of course, you can't see the colors in Alpine, and I guess most mail >> readers don't do ANSI color. > >> Why can't Alpine display ANSI color in the message body of plain-text >> messages? That would be a cool option. > > Perhaps. Provided it remains optional and disabled by default. > > Which is a kind way of saying "don't do it". I'm of the school "HTML > mail is evil" (I even have a procmail rule which strips off any HTML > attachment duplicating the plain text body), and so is any non-standard > attempt to format the text. Apparently you don't know what ANSI color is. It is not HTML color. > I like pine colour handling which the RECIPIENT can customize at one's > own taste (not the sender's), and in the text body I use it to hilight > signatures and URLs (plus lot of things in the message index), but I > think that if the sender really thinks that a message MUST have > hilighting, colour, fonts, graphics and whatever, he should provide it > as e.g. a PDF attachment. If you think the text below looks good, then I agree with your dismissal of my ideas. /dev/cdrom /dev/cdrom1 /dev/cdrw /dev/char /dev/console /dev/core /dev/cpu_dma_latency /dev/log /dev/loop0 /dev/loop1 /dev/loop2 /dev/loop3 /dev/loop4 /dev/loop5 /dev/loop6 /dev/loop7 /dev/lp0 /dev/scd0 /dev/scd1 /dev/sda /dev/sda1 /dev/sda2 /dev/sda3 /dev/sdb /dev/sdb1 /dev/sdb2 /dev/sdb3 /dev/sdc /dev/sdc1 /dev/sequencer /dev/sequencer2 /dev/sg0 /dev/sg1 /dev/sg2 /dev/sg3 /dev/sg4 /dev/sg5 /dev/shm /dev/snapshot /dev/snd /dev/sndstat /dev/sr0 /dev/sr1 /dev/stderr /dev/stdin /dev/stdout  To look at the text a different way, use these Alpine commands... | Pipe ^Y Free Output ...and enter this as the pipe command: \less -R Now that you know what it looks like when viewed properly, tell me why you prefer to see it as above instead of as viewed through less. If you don't have less or know what it is, then you probably should stay out of this. Also, if you haven't read any of this, haven't looked at the text using less -R, and you don't know what I'm talking about, then I don't think you are participating usefully in this discussion. Mike From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Thu May 13 13:03:51 2010 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] colors with alpine using html? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 13 May 2010, Robert Holtzman wrote: > On Wed, 12 May 2010, Mike Miller wrote: > >> Why can't Alpine display ANSI color in the message body of plain-text >> messages? That would be a cool option. > > It might be if it takes a circus poster to hold your attention. Kewl, > man. Robert-- I don't understand your comment. Did you read the earlier messages in this thread? I think you would need to read them before being in a position to make a sensible comment here. Also, think about syntax highlighting and why people like it. Maybe you don't do any sysadmin work or use scripts to write messages, but if you did, maybe you would have a different approach. Mike From ajmcello78 at gmail.com Thu May 13 13:13:44 2010 From: ajmcello78 at gmail.com (ajmcello) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] colors with alpine using html? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Oh that's totally insane and clever, Mike. haha. I would have never thought of that. Thank you On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 11:27 AM, Mike Miller wrote: > On Wed, 12 May 2010, Eduardo Chappa wrote: > >> :) I'm wanting to highlight keywords using alpine, that are generated from >> :) a script that E-mails me data. > > If you have a script that emails data, I'm guessing you are a UNIX/Linux guy > and can deal with programs like "less". ?This allows you to quickly and > easily view the content outside of Alpine. ?Try this: > > \ls --color=always -xd /dev/[cls]* | \alpine "" > > Send the message to yourself. ?Look at the message. ?It looks like garbage. > ?But then use these Alpine commands... > > | Pipe > ^Y Free Output > > ...and enter this as the pipe command: > > \less -R > > See? ?("Q" to exit and return to Alpine.) ?It's really cool. ?You can use > the ANSI specification for foreground and background color and bold font. > > Alpine remembers your last pipe command, so if you enter it once use it > repeatedly. > > You could have the script generate text with ANSI color and send it to you. > ?Then you just use pipe and less to read it. ?Another option is to have a > perl script do a substitution on the normal text file to add the ANSI code > and pipe it to less -R. > > Of course, you can't see the colors in Alpine, and I guess most mail readers > don't do ANSI color. ?I would have sworn that Pine used to do this, though, > at least under some conditions. ?It displays ANSI color in the headers but > not in the text. > > Why can't Alpine display ANSI color in the message body of plain-text > messages? ?That would be a cool option. > > Mike > From ajmcello78 at gmail.com Thu May 13 13:20:58 2010 From: ajmcello78 at gmail.com (ajmcello) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] colors with alpine using html? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 1:03 PM, Mike Miller wrote: > On Thu, 13 May 2010, Robert Holtzman wrote: > >> On Wed, 12 May 2010, Mike Miller wrote: >> >>> Why can't Alpine display ANSI color in the message body of plain-text >>> messages? ?That would be a cool option. >> >> It might be if it takes a circus poster to hold your attention. Kewl, man. > > > Robert-- > > I don't understand your comment. ?Did you read the earlier messages in this > thread? ?I think you would need to read them before being in a position to > make a sensible comment here. > > Also, think about syntax highlighting and why people like it. ?Maybe you > don't do any sysadmin work or use scripts to write messages, but if you did, > maybe you would have a different approach. > Yes I have to agree, that was a rather nonsensical reply.. From geoff at QuiteLikely.com Thu May 13 14:23:06 2010 From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] colors with alpine using html? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, Maybe I'm missing the point a little, but is it not the case that ANSI sequences really weren't designed for this purpose? My understanding was that they were designed for directly controling output on a display, not as mark-up that should be properly understood (or at least sent through untouched) by Email clients. So, for example, it's reasonable for ALPINE to send ANSI sequences to control its output on terminals, but not reasonable to expect it to send text formatted this way through to the terminal, especially since it might mess up ALPINE's own presentation. I think piping the text to less or something similar is the right approach. Not sure if you could make it easier by setting up some kind of display filter or something, I've not messed with them. Maybe you could give it some kind of unique file extension and put an entry in .mailcap which does the right things with your text. Geoff. From chris at aptivate.org Thu May 13 14:35:40 2010 From: chris at aptivate.org (Chris Wilson) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] colors with alpine using html? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi all, On Fri, 14 May 2010, Geoff Shang wrote: > Maybe I'm missing the point a little, but is it not the case that ANSI > sequences really weren't designed for this purpose? > > My understanding was that they were designed for directly controling output > on a display, not as mark-up that should be properly understood (or at least > sent through untouched) by Email clients. > > So, for example, it's reasonable for ALPINE to send ANSI sequences to control > its output on terminals, but not reasonable to expect it to send text > formatted this way through to the terminal, especially since it might mess up > ALPINE's own presentation. Not just its own presentation. Someone could send you an email with carefully-crafted ANSI escape sequences that would render your terminal unusable, hide some of the text in the email, or reprogram your P key to send "sudo rm -rf /; p" the next time you tried to run Pine. (Have you ever tried to cat a binary file in a terminal and made it unusable?) It was a bug (or limitation) in older versions of Pine that they displayed such escape sequences untouched, in the hope that they represented extended character set characters that would display properly on your terminal. At some point, probably when UTF-8 support and character set conversion were introducted into Pine/Alpine, they were blocked, and extended characters passed though iconv instead. In my view, this is the right (and safe) thing to do. > I think piping the text to less or something similar is the right > approach. Yes, and you should only do so IF you trust the sender of the email not to send you dangerous escape sequences. On the other hand, less -R supposedly allows only colour sequences through (and displays the others as escapes), and perhaps it might be safe for Pine and Alpine to allow only colour sequences in the same way (and perhaps not black or white). But I wouldn't want to vouch for its safety. Cheers, Chris. -- Aptivate | http://www.aptivate.org | Phone: +44 1223 760887 The Humanitarian Centre, Fenner's, Gresham Road, Cambridge CB1 2ES Aptivate is a not-for-profit company registered in England and Wales with company number 04980791. From holtzm at cox.net Thu May 13 14:44:48 2010 From: holtzm at cox.net (Robert Holtzman) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] colors with alpine using html? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 13 May 2010, Mike Miller wrote: > On Thu, 13 May 2010, Robert Holtzman wrote: > >> On Wed, 12 May 2010, Mike Miller wrote: >> >>> Why can't Alpine display ANSI color in the message body of plain-text >>> messages? That would be a cool option. >> >> It might be if it takes a circus poster to hold your attention. Kewl, man. > > > Robert-- > > I don't understand your comment. Did you read the earlier messages in this > thread? I think you would need to read them before being in a position to > make a sensible comment here. > > Also, think about syntax highlighting and why people like it. Maybe you > don't do any sysadmin work or use scripts to write messages, but if you did, > maybe you would have a different approach. I stand corrected. I was confusing it with HTML. -- Bob Holtzman Key ID: 8D549279 "If you think you're getting free lunch, check the price of the beer" From runkel at usgs.gov Thu May 13 15:19:34 2010 From: runkel at usgs.gov (Rob Runkel) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Composer right margin Message-ID: Hi -- my apologies if I'm missing something obvious.... When I compose a message w/i Alpine, the default right margin is set to 73. I'd like to set it to something smaller. I see the pico has a '-r' flag to take care of this, but there doesn't seem to be a way to pass that on to Alpine. any info appreciated - Rob ps. I'm running alpine w/i Mandriva Linux From chappa at u.washington.edu Thu May 13 17:24:33 2010 From: chappa at u.washington.edu (Eduardo Chappa) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Composer right margin In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 13 May 2010, Rob Runkel wrote: :) When I compose a message w/i Alpine, the default right margin is set to :) 73. I'd like to set it to something smaller. Dear Rob, Press M S C and set the value of "Composer Wrap Column" to the desired width that you want. -- Eduardo http://staff.washington.edu/chappa/alpine/ From lucio at lambrate.inaf.it Fri May 14 00:56:31 2010 From: lucio at lambrate.inaf.it (Lucio Chiappetti) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] colors with alpine using html? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 13 May 2010, Mike Miller wrote: > Apparently you don't know what ANSI color is. It is not HTML color. I'm old enough to have used ANSI escape sequences on HP 23xx and some DEC VT xxx terminals (REAL hardware terminals ... not terminal emulators ... which is where these things belong nowadays). I do not care whether it is HTML color, ANSI color, or some other form of enriched text (I confess that when I first encountered the mention of "enriched text" many years ago, I thought it was somehow related to RTF, and a way of "publicly standardizing" RTF, and a good idea ... but quickly I changed my mind). I simply think that enriched text does not belong to what should be contained in an e-mail body. > If you think the text below looks good, then I agree with your dismissal > of my ideas. For me this kind of text (snapshot of ls -color) simply DOES NOT BELONG to the e-mail BODY. If it is really important to show this "as it looks" to somebody (who may or may not have alpine as MUA), I'd either make a gif/jpg/png snapshot and attach it, or make a text file and attach it with a notice "display with less -R"). No different from a Postscript or PDF *ATTACHMENT*. > To look at the text a different way, use these Alpine commands... > > | Pipe > ^Y Free Output > \less -R Incidentally that does not work for me (nor does an Export to file followed by less). But it works if I pipe and replace ^Y with ^W. Thanks for having drawn my attention to these options of pipe. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Lucio Chiappetti - INAF/IASF - via Bassini 15 - I-20133 Milano (Italy) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mit der Dummheit kampfen Against stupidity the gods Gotter selbst vergebens. themselves contend in vain (F.Schiller, Die Jungfrau von Orleans, III, 6 & I.Asimov) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ For more info : http://www.iasf-milano.inaf.it/~lucio/personal.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From johnrbowman at gmail.com Fri May 14 04:52:28 2010 From: johnrbowman at gmail.com (Jack Bowman) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Reply-all strangeness Message-ID: Hello all, I get many emails with headers with headers like this: From: Someone Lastname ... Cc: AnotherEmail@domain.com (Jim Somebody), AnotherEmail2@domain.com (Firstname Doe), MoreAddresses@domain.com (Jane F. Smith) with many addresses cc'd. Each new address in the cc list is on a new line and starts with a tab, followed by their email address, followed by their name in parens (don't know if this is standard or not). Here's my problem. When I try to reply all to these emails, alpine often interprets some of the addresses (and names) as starting with spaces. So in the message I'm composing it'll say something like Cc: "Firstname Doe" <" AnotherEmail2@domain.com"> This leads to all kinds of problems. What can I do to get alpine to recognize the emails and names without adding extraneous quotes and spaces? - Jack Bowman -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mats at dufberg.se Fri May 14 05:48:38 2010 From: mats at dufberg.se (Mats Dufberg) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Reply-all strangeness In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On maj 14, 2010, 07:52 (-0400) Jack Bowman wrote: > I get many emails with headers with headers like this: > > From: Someone Lastname > ... > Cc: AnotherEmail@domain.com (Jim Somebody), > ??? AnotherEmail2@domain.com (Firstname Doe), > ??? MoreAddresses@domain.com (Jane F. Smith) > > with many addresses cc'd. Each new address in the cc list is on a new > line and starts with a tab, followed by their email address, followed by > their name in parens (don't know if this is standard or not). > > Here's my problem. When I try to reply all to these emails, alpine often > interprets some of the addresses (and names) as starting with spaces. So > in the message I'm composing it'll say something like > > Cc: "Firstname Doe" <"????? AnotherEmail2@domain.com"> > > This leads to all kinds of problems. What can I do to get alpine to > recognize the emails and names without adding extraneous quotes and > spaces? The question is how the CC header looks like. If you select "h" when you view the email you will se how the addresses are actually encoded when alpine gets the email. You can also save save the email in a local folder, and then open it with some text file viewer such as "less" on unix. The format wiht the clear text name in parentheses "AnotherEmail@domain.com (Jim Somebody)" is fine according to the standards. Mats ----------------------------------------------------------------- Mats Dufberg mats@dufberg.se Bl?arvsgr?nd 42 +46-8-38 48 59 SE-162 45 V?llingby, Sweden +46-70-258 2588 From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Fri May 14 08:02:39 2010 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] colors with alpine using html? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 13 May 2010, Chris Wilson wrote: > Not just its own presentation. Someone could send you an email with > carefully-crafted ANSI escape sequences that would render your terminal > unusable, hide some of the text in the email, or reprogram your P key to > send "sudo rm -rf /; p" the next time you tried to run Pine. (Have you > ever tried to cat a binary file in a terminal and made it unusable?) Are you saying that it is not possible now for someone to send a binary sequence in a message body and cause Alpine to do weird things, but if Alpine were reading ANSI color info in the text body, then it might do weird things? > It was a bug (or limitation) in older versions of Pine that they > displayed such escape sequences untouched, in the hope that they > represented extended character set characters that would display > properly on your terminal. > > At some point, probably when UTF-8 support and character set conversion > were introducted into Pine/Alpine, they were blocked, and extended > characters passed though iconv instead. In my view, this is the right > (and safe) thing to do. I'm no expert on safety, but if Alpine is deciding what color to display, and not deciding what the P key will do, then I think it's pretty safe. >> I think piping the text to less or something similar is the right >> approach. > > Yes, and you should only do so IF you trust the sender of the email not > to send you dangerous escape sequences. Do you mean to say that there is a way to send text to less that will cause less to do dangerous things on the system? I'm intrigued. Can you give an example? If this is really true, it's a critical security flaw in less and I hope you will report it to the less developers. > On the other hand, less -R supposedly allows only colour sequences > through (and displays the others as escapes), and perhaps it might be > safe for Pine and Alpine to allow only colour sequences in the same way > (and perhaps not black or white). But I wouldn't want to vouch for its > safety. I can't vouch for the safety of any feature of Alpine. That is up to the programmer. And yes, I was only recommending that Alpine might have an option allowing users to have Alpine decide what colors to show based on ANSI escape sequences, not to have Alpine change the functioning of the P key based on the message text. If that kind of security isn't already there, I'd be very surprised. Mike From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Fri May 14 08:23:25 2010 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] colors with alpine using html? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 14 May 2010, Lucio Chiappetti wrote: > I simply think that enriched text does not belong to what should be > contained in an e-mail body. Then you can not check the box for that option and you'll be fine. People who want it can check the box and get it. It isn't clear to me why someone would want to keep it turned off, though. You probably don't receive messages with ANSI color, but if you do, why wouldn't you want to see it? The color might not "belong" there, in your philosophy, but if it is there, you don't want to see it? You just want to see the messy code instead? >> If you think the text below looks good, then I agree with your >> dismissal of my ideas. > > For me this kind of text (snapshot of ls -color) simply DOES NOT BELONG > to the e-mail BODY. I don't know what it means for text to "not belong" somewhere. Using ANSI color in the message body is just a convenient way to do certain kinds of things. You might not want to do such things. > If it is really important to show this "as it looks" to somebody (who > may or may not have alpine as MUA), I'd either make a gif/jpg/png > snapshot and attach it, or make a text file and attach it with a notice > "display with less -R"). No different from a Postscript or PDF > *ATTACHMENT*. But the attachment is just way less convenient. If the color is displayed in the message body you can quickly page through messages and find the relevant parts. >> To look at the text a different way, use these Alpine commands... >> >> | Pipe >> ^Y Free Output >> \less -R > > Incidentally that does not work for me (nor does an Export to file > followed by less). But it works if I pipe and replace ^Y with ^W. Thanks > for having drawn my attention to these options of pipe. ^Y toggles. What you want is "uncaptured" text. At least for me it doesn't matter if it is raw text -- either ^W setting gives the same colorful result. If I export to a file and use less -R, I see the color. I'm using a GNU/Linux machine. For comparison, I saved the earlier message using Export and I have attached the file. I did process it only to remove our email addresses: perl -pi -e 's/^From .*$// ; s/^((From:|To:).*?) <.*$/$1/' ls_color.txt Anyway, if Alpine could display ANSI color, I would use that feature. I would use it to color code certain kinds of messages that I create and send to myself. I would probably also create a filter to color the daily Google Calendar updates. Mike -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: ls_color.txt URL: From lucio at lambrate.inaf.it Fri May 14 09:06:37 2010 From: lucio at lambrate.inaf.it (Lucio Chiappetti) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] colors with alpine using html? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 14 May 2010, Mike Miller wrote: > On Fri, 14 May 2010, Lucio Chiappetti wrote: > >> I simply think that enriched text does not belong to what should be >> contained in an e-mail body. > > Then you can not check the box for that option and you'll be fine. > People who want it can check the box and get it. That's essentially what I said when I suggested it "not to be enabled by default". > It isn't clear to me why someone would want to keep it turned off, though. > You probably don't receive messages with ANSI color, I don't, and I would not want to encourage the odd moron out there to send me a message with some silly rainbow inscription just because is cute. For 10 persons doing sensible and meaningful usage of colour as you do, there are 90 morons. Or am I optimistic : 1 and 99 ? As I do not encourage people to send HTML formatted messages. I tried to educate them not to send the same stuff in ASCII and HTML, and at the end I quit and made a procmail arrangement which STRIPS the HTML away. I do not want to save it in my folders. The original message is saved bu procmail in a folder cleaned cyclically, so in the rare case I NEED to see it as it looks, I can go there, and in the attachment index click on it, and view it in my browser. In the extremely rare case I need to send somebody real HTML, I do include it as an attachment (the only case occurred to me is when I have a web page of my own, which is protected by .htaccess to be seen only from some domains, and a colleague wants to see it from home ... so I attach it ... but is NOT the e-mail message, it's a DIFFERENT content). The only use I made of ANSI escape sequences in files (as opposed to outputting them from programs) was to use bold or inverse in "login banner" (/etc/issue and alike). When I wanted to send such a template to a colleague needing to adapt it on his machine, I sent it BY PURPOSE in an attachment. >> Incidentally that does not work for me (nor does an Export to file >> followed by less). But it works if I pipe and replace ^Y with ^W. Thanks >> for having drawn my attention to these options of pipe. > I'm using a GNU/Linux machine. me too. > For comparison, I saved the earlier message using Export and I have > attached the file. your attachment looks fine when saved and less'ed (or even cat'ed) in an xterm. Except that some of the entries appear as yellow on black background while most of the rest is in colour over my normal (pale yellow) bkg. And they wrap badly given my xterm width. When viewed with pipe (and appropriate toggles) in alpine everything is in colour over black background ... which incidentally is my default bkg for the urxvt where I run alpine. All this seems to demonstrate that getting colour as "expected" is something which works if recipient and sender have previously agreed some common tools to use : will it / does it work with other MUAs ? will it work with any terminal emulator (do all terminal emulators honour ANSI colour ?) ? will it work with any OS ? > Anyway, if Alpine could display ANSI color, I would use that feature. > I would use it to color code certain kinds of messages that I create and > send to myself. I do use colours in message indexes (to me, from me. new, important, saved elsewhere ... this is a custom flag of mine). I do use colours when viewing messages to hilight the header (and some header fields in a different way), the signature, and the URLs, i.e. parts which are "special" wrt the body. These to me are appropriate usages of colour for a mail message. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Lucio Chiappetti - INAF/IASF - via Bassini 15 - I-20133 Milano (Italy) For more info : http://www.iasf-milano.inaf.it/~lucio/personal.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From D.H.Davis at bath.ac.uk Fri May 14 09:44:49 2010 From: D.H.Davis at bath.ac.uk (Dennis Davis) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] colors with alpine using html? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 14 May 2010, Mike Miller wrote: > From: Mike Miller > To: Lucio Chiappetti > Cc: Alpine list > Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 16:23:25 > Subject: Re: [Alpine-info] colors with alpine using html? ... > > If it is really important to show this "as it looks" to somebody > > (who may or may not have alpine as MUA), I'd either make a > > gif/jpg/png snapshot and attach it, or make a text file and > > attach it with a notice "display with less -R"). No different > > from a Postscript or PDF *ATTACHMENT*. > > But the attachment is just way less convenient. If the color > is displayed in the message body you can quickly page through > messages and find the relevant parts. The attachment may be way less convenient. But how else are you going to try and make sure that a recipient using an unknown email client on an unknown operating system stands a fair chance of being able to read the message? Isn't what you're proposing specific to alpine, and possibly specific to alpine on a particular operating system? -- Dennis Davis, BUCS, University of Bath, Bath, BA2 7AY, UK D.H.Davis@bath.ac.uk Phone: +44 1225 386101 From jeff at jeff.net Fri May 14 10:13:52 2010 From: jeff at jeff.net (Jeff LaCoursiere) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] colors with alpine using html? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 14 May 2010, Dennis Davis wrote: > On Fri, 14 May 2010, Mike Miller wrote: > >> From: Mike Miller >> To: Lucio Chiappetti >> Cc: Alpine list >> Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 16:23:25 >> Subject: Re: [Alpine-info] colors with alpine using html? > > ... > >>> If it is really important to show this "as it looks" to somebody >>> (who may or may not have alpine as MUA), I'd either make a >>> gif/jpg/png snapshot and attach it, or make a text file and >>> attach it with a notice "display with less -R"). No different >>> from a Postscript or PDF *ATTACHMENT*. >> >> But the attachment is just way less convenient. If the color >> is displayed in the message body you can quickly page through >> messages and find the relevant parts. > > The attachment may be way less convenient. But how else are you > going to try and make sure that a recipient using an unknown email > client on an unknown operating system stands a fair chance of being > able to read the message? > > Isn't what you're proposing specific to alpine, and possibly > specific to alpine on a particular operating system? > -- Not really specific to an OS, but certainly specific to a terminal type. It may be that most terminal emulators understand ANSI these days, but this whole thing smacks of a backwards design request. I do get what the intended result is, but the audience for such a feature is vanishingly small. >From a high level you are trying to get alpine to honor embedded formatting information, which is against its basic design. It is meant to be a text only interface. I am rather against the idea of making it ANSI aware. But that of course is the beauty of OSS. Make the patch and maybe others will see it your way and benefit. j From asheesh at asheesh.org Fri May 14 10:18:28 2010 From: asheesh at asheesh.org (Asheesh Laroia) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] problem with regex matching in Alternate Addresses In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 10 May 2010, Mike Miller wrote: > On Mon, 10 May 2010, Eduardo Chappa wrote: > >> On Mon, 10 May 2010, Mike Miller wrote: >> >> :) I guess my Alpine doesn't make debug files, either that or they are >> :) not where they used to be. >> >> Right, I think that for some reason Debian/Ubuntu distribute binaries that >> do not create debug files. I think the package that creates debug files is >> a separate one. > > There is an alpine-dbg package, or something like that. I just installed it > to see if it would change anything, but I don't see a difference. I still > don't get debug files in my home directory. There might be a way to get it > to do something for me, but I don't know the tricks. Hey all, I think alpine in Debian/Ubuntu accepts the -debug option. Does that help you, Mike? Also, if you do "apt-get source alpine", you can see the compilation flags the package uses. They're sitting in the debian/rules file inside the Alpine source. I'm currently swamped, but I'd really appreciate your help tracking down the issue. -- Asheesh. -- That secret you've been guarding, isn't. From alpine at benizi.com Fri May 14 11:12:18 2010 From: alpine at benizi.com (Benjamin R. Haskell) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] colors with alpine using html? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 14 May 2010, Mike Miller wrote: > On Thu, 13 May 2010, Chris Wilson wrote: > > > Not just its own presentation. Someone could send you an email with > > carefully-crafted ANSI escape sequences that would render your > > terminal unusable, hide some of the text in the email, or reprogram > > your P key to send "sudo rm -rf /; p" the next time you tried to run > > Pine. (Have you ever tried to cat a binary file in a terminal and > > made it unusable?) > > Are you saying that it is not possible now for someone to send a > binary sequence in a message body and cause Alpine to do weird things, > but if Alpine were reading ANSI color info in the text body, then it > might do weird things? That's an accurate paraphrase of the issue. If it were truly limited to 'color', probably not an issue. But it's much easier to just pass through the escape sequences. A good description of why some terminals are vulnerable, in the simply-pass-through scenario: http://marc.info/?l=bugtraq&m=104612710031920&q=p3 (found via googling: 1. escape sequence security issue 2. terminal emulator vulnerable escape sequence CVE-2003-0020[1] had a dead link to a 'Digital Defense' page called 'Termulation', 3. Digital Defense termulation ) -- Best, Ben [1] http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2003-0020 From johnrbowman at gmail.com Fri May 14 13:26:53 2010 From: johnrbowman at gmail.com (Jack Bowman) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Reply-all strangeness In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Right. To be absolutely clear about the formatting I saved a sample message locally and opened it up. The format looks like Cc: firstemailaddress (first fullname), ^Isecondemailaddress (second fullname), ^Ithirdemailaddress (third fullname) So each email address is on a new line that begins with tab (and the previous line has a trailing space). I imagine that alpine is picking up this tab character instead of ignoring it. Is this fixable in some way? On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 8:48 AM, Mats Dufberg wrote: > On maj 14, 2010, 07:52 (-0400) Jack Bowman wrote: > > > I get many emails with headers with headers like this: > > > > From: Someone Lastname > > ... > > Cc: AnotherEmail@domain.com (Jim Somebody), > > AnotherEmail2@domain.com (Firstname Doe), > > MoreAddresses@domain.com (Jane F. Smith) > > > > with many addresses cc'd. Each new address in the cc list is on a new > > line and starts with a tab, followed by their email address, followed by > > their name in parens (don't know if this is standard or not). > > > > Here's my problem. When I try to reply all to these emails, alpine often > > interprets some of the addresses (and names) as starting with spaces. So > > in the message I'm composing it'll say something like > > > > Cc: "Firstname Doe" <" AnotherEmail2@domain.com"> > > > > This leads to all kinds of problems. What can I do to get alpine to > > recognize the emails and names without adding extraneous quotes and > > spaces? > > The question is how the CC header looks like. If you select "h" when you > view the email you will se how the addresses are actually encoded when > alpine gets the email. You can also save save the email in a local folder, > and then open it with some text file viewer such as "less" on unix. > > The format wiht the clear text name in parentheses > "AnotherEmail@domain.com (Jim Somebody)" is fine according to the > standards. > > > > Mats > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > Mats Dufberg mats@dufberg.se > Bl?arvsgr?nd 42 +46-8-38 48 59 > SE-162 45 V?llingby, Sweden +46-70-258 2588 > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mattack at apple.com Fri May 14 13:39:55 2010 From: mattack at apple.com (Matt Ackeret) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Reply-all strangeness In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 14 May 2010, Jack Bowman wrote: >Right. To be absolutely clear about the formatting I saved a sample message >locally and opened it up. The format looks like > >Cc: firstemailaddress (first fullname), >^Isecondemailaddress (second fullname), >^Ithirdemailaddress (third fullname) > >So each email address is on a new line that begins with tab (and the >previous line has a trailing space). I imagine that alpine is picking up >this tab character instead of ignoring it. > >Is this fixable in some way? I'd suggest you figure out why the tabs are getting there in the first place. (i.e. check which email program the originator is using - it may be in the full headers) I wouldn't be surprised if that was an illegal character. alpine could theoretically filter those out as a workaround, but it really seems broken on the source end. From rick+alpine at helix.nih.gov Fri May 14 13:51:50 2010 From: rick+alpine at helix.nih.gov (Rick Troxel) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Reply-all strangeness In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Today (05/14/10) at 13:39 -0700, Matt Ackeret wrote: > On Fri, 14 May 2010, Jack Bowman wrote: >> Right. To be absolutely clear about the formatting I saved a sample message >> locally and opened it up. The format looks like >> >> Cc: firstemailaddress (first fullname), >> ^Isecondemailaddress (second fullname), >> ^Ithirdemailaddress (third fullname) >> >> So each email address is on a new line that begins with tab (and the >> previous line has a trailing space). I imagine that alpine is picking >> up this tab character instead of ignoring it. >> >> Is this fixable in some way? > > I'd suggest you figure out why the tabs are getting there in the first > place. (i.e. check which email program the originator is using - it > may be in the full headers) > > I wouldn't be surprised if that was an illegal character. Quite the opposite: whitespace is required at the front of any header line that's continued from a prior one. To leave out the TABs would be illegal. I suspect alpine is mishandling space-newline-TABs when internally converting the address formats from user@sample.com (Full Name) to Full Name FWIW, -- Rick Troxel, Helix Systems Staff rick@helix.nih.gov 301/435-2983 From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Fri May 14 14:35:07 2010 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] colors with alpine using html? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 14 May 2010, Lucio Chiappetti wrote: > On Fri, 14 May 2010, Mike Miller wrote: > >> On Fri, 14 May 2010, Lucio Chiappetti wrote: >> >>> I simply think that enriched text does not belong to what should be >>> contained in an e-mail body. >> >> Then you can not check the box for that option and you'll be fine. >> People who want it can check the box and get it. > > That's essentially what I said when I suggested it "not to be enabled by > default". Sure, but you are also trying to encourage developers to not provide the option at all, even though at least one other person (me) wants it and it would have no effect on those who don't want it. So I'm trying to understand your perspective. >> It isn't clear to me why someone would want to keep it turned off, >> though. You probably don't receive messages with ANSI color, > > I don't, and I would not want to encourage the odd moron out there to > send me a message with some silly rainbow inscription just because is > cute. For 10 persons doing sensible and meaningful usage of colour as > you do, there are 90 morons. Or am I optimistic : 1 and 99 ? No matter how many morons there are in the world, not many of them are using Alpine. I find it very hard to believe that adding an option to see the colors of ANSI-colored text in Alpine will have an effect on the rate at which such messages are generated and sent by random morons to Lucio Chiappetti, but what do I know? > As I do not encourage people to send HTML formatted messages. I don't encourage them either, but this has had very little effect on their behavior. The problem is that mailers do this sort of thing by default. I am not requesting that Alpine add any functionality to create messages that contain ANSI escape characters. I do not want that and I would oppose adding it for the same reasons as you. We are talking about reading messages effectively, not about writing them. > I tried to educate them not to send the same stuff in ASCII and HTML, > and at the end I quit and made a procmail arrangement which STRIPS the > HTML away. I do not want to save it in my folders. The original message > is saved bu procmail in a folder cleaned cyclically, so in the rare case > I NEED to see it as it looks, I can go there, and in the attachment > index click on it, and view it in my browser. Good for you, but if you recall the original point of this thread, we are mostly concerned about marking up messages generated by scripts that use grep, or whatnot, to color the text. > In the extremely rare case I need to send somebody real HTML, I do > include it as an attachment (the only case occurred to me is when I have > a web page of my own, which is protected by .htaccess to be seen only > from some domains, and a colleague wants to see it from home ... so I > attach it ... but is NOT the e-mail message, it's a DIFFERENT content). More irrelevancy. > The only use I made of ANSI escape sequences in files (as opposed to > outputting them from programs) was to use bold or inverse in "login > banner" (/etc/issue and alike). When I wanted to send such a template to > a colleague needing to adapt it on his machine, I sent it BY PURPOSE in > an attachment. And we care about this for some reason? You don't seem to understand. We don't want to send ANSI, we want to read ANSI. >>> Incidentally that does not work for me (nor does an Export to file >>> followed by less). But it works if I pipe and replace ^Y with ^W. >>> Thanks for having drawn my attention to these options of pipe. > >> I'm using a GNU/Linux machine. > > me too. > >> For comparison, I saved the earlier message using Export and I have >> attached the file. > > your attachment looks fine when saved and less'ed (or even cat'ed) in an > xterm. Except that some of the entries appear as yellow on black > background while most of the rest is in colour over my normal (pale > yellow) bkg. And they wrap badly given my xterm width. > > When viewed with pipe (and appropriate toggles) in alpine everything is > in colour over black background ... which incidentally is my default bkg > for the urxvt where I run alpine. > > All this seems to demonstrate that getting colour as "expected" is > something which works if recipient and sender have previously agreed > some common tools to use : will it / does it work with other MUAs ? will > it work with any terminal emulator (do all terminal emulators honour > ANSI colour ?) ? will it work with any OS ? We are interested primarily in the case where sender is a script written by recipient, so they are coordinating nicely. >> Anyway, if Alpine could display ANSI color, I would use that feature. I >> would use it to color code certain kinds of messages that I create and >> send to myself. > > I do use colours in message indexes (to me, from me. new, important, > saved elsewhere ... this is a custom flag of mine). I do use colours > when viewing messages to hilight the header (and some header fields in a > different way), the signature, and the URLs, i.e. parts which are > "special" wrt the body. These to me are appropriate usages of colour for > a mail message. You might think that some of my uses are inappropriate. I don't care. Why should I care what you think about how I read messages written by scripts or edited by procmail filters on my computer? I don't get it. I don't know why you got into this thread and have persisted as you have. Mike From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Fri May 14 14:44:41 2010 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] colors with alpine using html? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 14 May 2010, Dennis Davis wrote: > On Fri, 14 May 2010, Mike Miller wrote: > >>> If it is really important to show this "as it looks" to somebody (who >>> may or may not have alpine as MUA), I'd either make a gif/jpg/png >>> snapshot and attach it, or make a text file and attach it with a >>> notice "display with less -R"). No different from a Postscript or PDF >>> *ATTACHMENT*. >> >> But the attachment is just way less convenient. If the color is >> displayed in the message body you can quickly page through messages and >> find the relevant parts. > > The attachment may be way less convenient. But how else are you going > to try and make sure that a recipient using an unknown email client on > an unknown operating system stands a fair chance of being able to read > the message? > > Isn't what you're proposing specific to alpine, and possibly specific to > alpine on a particular operating system? Again, i think you guys are misunderstanding. We don't want Alpine to create ANSI-colored text and send it. We just want it to display the color instead of displaying the escape sequence. We are sending messages to ourselves using scripts or mail filters to color them. For example, "Daily Agenda" messages from Google Calendar can be filtered like this to show my appointments in red while appointments on my wife's calendar will be normal text: perl -pe 's/^(.*\tMike Miller)$/\033[01;31m\033[K$1\033[m/' That's a good thing. Sorry, but if you don't want it, then don't do it. Displaying ANSI color properly is a feature that will harm no one while helping some people (people like me and the OP). I think the position some are taking against this simply reflects the fact that they have not been reading and understanding what we're talking about here. Regarding operating systems -- I would think that any system where ANSI color works in the terminal (as in message headers, for example), it would also work in the message body. Mike From alpine at benizi.com Fri May 14 13:57:50 2010 From: alpine at benizi.com (Benjamin R. Haskell) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Reply-all strangeness In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 14 May 2010, Matt Ackeret wrote: > On Fri, 14 May 2010, Jack Bowman wrote: > >Right. To be absolutely clear about the formatting I saved a sample message > >locally and opened it up. The format looks like > > > >Cc: firstemailaddress (first fullname), > >^Isecondemailaddress (second fullname), > >^Ithirdemailaddress (third fullname) > > > >So each email address is on a new line that begins with tab (and the > >previous line has a trailing space). I imagine that alpine is picking > >up this tab character instead of ignoring it. > > > >Is this fixable in some way? > > I'd suggest you figure out why the tabs are getting there in the first > place. (i.e. check which email program the originator is using - it > may be in the full headers) > > I wouldn't be surprised if that was an illegal character. > > alpine could theoretically filter those out as a workaround, but it > really seems broken on the source end. Nope. It's fine by the specs. I looked this up back when alpine was munging long 'Subject:' headers that were using Yahoo!'s (IIRC) preferred folding of: Header: This is a long header RFC 2822, something about 'folding whitespace' (again, IIRC). -- Best, Ben From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Fri May 14 15:22:24 2010 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] colors with alpine using html? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 14 May 2010, Jeff LaCoursiere wrote: > On Fri, 14 May 2010, Dennis Davis wrote: > >> On Fri, 14 May 2010, Mike Miller wrote: > > Not really specific to an OS, but certainly specific to a terminal type. > It may be that most terminal emulators understand ANSI these days, but > this whole thing smacks of a backwards design request. What is a "backwards design request?" > I do get what the intended result is but the audience for such a feature > is vanishingly small. I wonder about that. I don't think Alpine is being used by your average person. I think it's mostly UNIX/Linux people these days, no? > From a high level you are trying to get alpine to honor embedded > formatting information, which is against its basic design. It is meant > to be a text only interface. I am rather against the idea of making it > ANSI aware. It already does ANSI color, just not for ANSI escape sequences in the message body. It can use ANSI color for highlighting quoted text, signatures and URLs. Also, "Messages which include rich text or enriched text in the main body will be displayed in a very limited way (it will show bold and underlining)." > But that of course is the beauty of OSS. Make the patch and maybe > others will see it your way and benefit. I won't be actually coding it because I don't have that kind of skill, but I'd be happy to make suggestions, look at the code, test it, etc. It would be a worthy project for someone who likes doing that kind of thing. My guess is that it would not be very hard to do. For starters, it could be activated only for ordinary text messages, then only if the message contains ANSI escapes, otherwise the normal display is used. When the message is plain text and it includes ANSI escapes, and the user has selected this feature, it will display ANSI color but it won't do the highlighting of quoted text, signatures, URLS, etc. That would probably be the easiest way to go. Mike From dougb at FreeBSD.org Fri May 14 15:30:13 2010 From: dougb at FreeBSD.org (Doug Barton) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] colors with alpine using html? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4BEDCEF5.70500@FreeBSD.org> On 5/14/2010 2:35 PM, Mike Miller wrote: > > Sure, but you are also trying to encourage developers to not provide the > option at all, If it's a bad idea, it should be discouraged. > even though at least one other person (me) wants it I'm not clear about this. Are you saying that you're willing to do the work to develop the option, or are you asking someone else to do it for you? > and it would have no effect on those who don't want it. This is a very common myth that people who don't develop software don't understand intuitively. Even if you were willing to do the work to create the option yourself there is a non-zero cost of developer time in reviewing, testing, and integrating the patch into the existing base. At the absolute minimum there is what is known as an "opportunity cost" in this because any time that the developers spend on doing this is time that they are NOT spending on something else. Down the road there are also costs associated with maintenance of the feature when the code base changes around it. In addition to these costs it's already been described to you why adding a feature like this is a bad idea from a security perspective, AND that it's possible for you to effect a local solution by piping the message to a suitable program for display in any manner you see fit. In short, I get that you really want this, and really don't care about the reasons that it's a bad idea. But unless you're actually willing to do the work required to develop the feature yourself I don't think there's that much more left to talk about. If OTOH you ARE willing to create the patch yourself then you'll get another shot at convincing us when you submit it for review. Good luck, Doug -- ... and that's just a little bit of history repeating. -- Propellerheads Improve the effectiveness of your Internet presence with a domain name makeover! http://SupersetSolutions.com/ From jakej1978 at gmail.com Fri May 14 15:48:07 2010 From: jakej1978 at gmail.com (Jake Johnson) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] colors with alpine using html? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 3:18 PM, ajmcello wrote: > On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 2:44 PM, Mike Miller > > wrote: > > On Fri, 14 May 2010, Dennis Davis wrote: > > > >> On Fri, 14 May 2010, Mike Miller wrote: > >> > >>>> If it is really important to show this "as it looks" to somebody (who > >>>> may or may not have alpine as MUA), I'd either make a gif/jpg/png > snapshot > >>>> and attach it, or make a text file and attach it with a notice > "display with > >>>> less -R"). No different from a Postscript or PDF *ATTACHMENT*. > >>> > >>> But the attachment is just way less convenient. If the color is > >>> displayed in the message body you can quickly page through messages and > find > >>> the relevant parts. > >> > >> The attachment may be way less convenient. But how else are you going > to > >> try and make sure that a recipient using an unknown email client on an > >> unknown operating system stands a fair chance of being able to read the > >> message? > >> > >> Isn't what you're proposing specific to alpine, and possibly specific to > >> alpine on a particular operating system? > > > > > > Again, i think you guys are misunderstanding. We don't want Alpine to > > create ANSI-colored text and send it. We just want it to display the > color > > instead of displaying the escape sequence. We are sending messages to > > ourselves using scripts or mail filters to color them. > > > > For example, "Daily Agenda" messages from Google Calendar can be filtered > > like this to show my appointments in red while appointments on my wife's > > calendar will be normal text: > > > > perl -pe 's/^(.*\tMike Miller)$/\033[01;31m\033[K$1\033[m/' > > > > That's a good thing. Sorry, but if you don't want it, then don't do it. > > > > Displaying ANSI color properly is a feature that will harm no one while > > helping some people (people like me and the OP). > > > > I think the position some are taking against this simply reflects the > fact > > that they have not been reading and understanding what we're talking > about > > here. > > > > Regarding operating systems -- I would think that any system where ANSI > > color works in the terminal (as in message headers, for example), it > would > > also work in the message body. > > > > Mike > > _______________________________________________ > > Alpine-info mailing list > > Alpine-info@u.washington.edu > > http://mailman13.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/alpine-info > > > I'm in favor of alpine supporting ANSI colors by way of HTML font tags. I don't think you would want to allow color codes any other way, imo. Whether or not to have it enabled by default is debatable, but I'd suggest to have it enabled. Anybody who doesn't like colors is probably going to be technical enough to edit their .pinerc or enter setup and disable it. I can understand the frustration and resistance, however. I gave up on pine back in the day when it didn't understand HTML E-mails. I'd b)ounce them to Outlook and try to encourage people not to send as HTML. Most had no idea they were sending HTML. But nowadays E-mail is HTMLified to hell and to try to discourage would be a waste of time, as Lucio noted. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jakej1978 at gmail.com Fri May 14 15:59:45 2010 From: jakej1978 at gmail.com (Jake Johnson) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] colors with alpine using html? In-Reply-To: <4BEDCEF5.70500@FreeBSD.org> References: <4BEDCEF5.70500@FreeBSD.org> Message-ID: On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 3:30 PM, Doug Barton wrote: > On 5/14/2010 2:35 PM, Mike Miller wrote: > > > > Sure, but you are also trying to encourage developers to not provide the > > option at all, > > If it's a bad idea, it should be discouraged. > > > even though at least one other person (me) wants it > > I'm not clear about this. Are you saying that you're willing to do the > work to develop the option, or are you asking someone else to do it for > you? > > > and it would have no effect on those who don't want it. > > This is a very common myth that people who don't develop software don't > understand intuitively. Even if you were willing to do the work to > create the option yourself there is a non-zero cost of developer time in > reviewing, testing, and integrating the patch into the existing base. At > the absolute minimum there is what is known as an "opportunity cost" in > this because any time that the developers spend on doing this is time > that they are NOT spending on something else. Down the road there are > also costs associated with maintenance of the feature when the code base > changes around it. > > In addition to these costs it's already been described to you why adding > a feature like this is a bad idea from a security perspective, AND that > it's possible for you to effect a local solution by piping the message > to a suitable program for display in any manner you see fit. > > In short, I get that you really want this, and really don't care about > the reasons that it's a bad idea. But unless you're actually willing to > do the work required to develop the feature yourself I don't think > there's that much more left to talk about. If OTOH you ARE willing to > create the patch yourself then you'll get another shot at convincing us > when you submit it for review. > > > Good luck, > > I'm thankful that Pine Is Not dEad, lol. And by continuing to support it and make improvements, it will have a longer life. When you stop, you die. And.. What is left? Elm is gone, I never used mutt, and I think there is something called cone, but I've never taken the time to research it, nor is it installed on any UNIX distribution that I know of or use. Doug > > -- > > ... and that's just a little bit of history repeating. > -- Propellerheads > > Improve the effectiveness of your Internet presence with > a domain name makeover! http://SupersetSolutions.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > Alpine-info mailing list > Alpine-info@u.washington.edu > http://mailman13.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/alpine-info > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Fri May 14 16:43:17 2010 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] colors with alpine using html? In-Reply-To: <4BEDCEF5.70500@FreeBSD.org> References: <4BEDCEF5.70500@FreeBSD.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 14 May 2010, Doug Barton wrote: > On 5/14/2010 2:35 PM, Mike Miller wrote: > >> Sure, but you are also trying to encourage developers to not provide >> the option at all, > > If it's a bad idea, it should be discouraged. But it's a good idea, so it should be encouraged. Also, people who haven't read the thread shouldn't pick up on one clueless guy's message and then jump in there as if they know what is going on. >> even though at least one other person (me) wants it > > I'm not clear about this. Are you saying that you're willing to do the > work to develop the option, or are you asking someone else to do it for > you? You should read the other messages and all will be revealed. Sorry, I'm out of time for you now so I can't read more. You've wasted your allotment of my time for today. Mike >> and it would have no effect on those who don't want it. > > This is a very common myth that people who don't develop software don't > understand intuitively. Even if you were willing to do the work to > create the option yourself there is a non-zero cost of developer time in > reviewing, testing, and integrating the patch into the existing base. At > the absolute minimum there is what is known as an "opportunity cost" in > this because any time that the developers spend on doing this is time > that they are NOT spending on something else. Down the road there are > also costs associated with maintenance of the feature when the code base > changes around it. > > In addition to these costs it's already been described to you why adding > a feature like this is a bad idea from a security perspective, AND that > it's possible for you to effect a local solution by piping the message > to a suitable program for display in any manner you see fit. > > In short, I get that you really want this, and really don't care about > the reasons that it's a bad idea. But unless you're actually willing to > do the work required to develop the feature yourself I don't think > there's that much more left to talk about. If OTOH you ARE willing to > create the patch yourself then you'll get another shot at convincing us > when you submit it for review. > > > Good luck, > > Doug > > -- > > ... and that's just a little bit of history repeating. > -- Propellerheads > > Improve the effectiveness of your Internet presence with > a domain name makeover! http://SupersetSolutions.com/ > From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Fri May 14 16:57:04 2010 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] colors with alpine using html? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 14 May 2010, Jake Johnson wrote: > I'm in favor of alpine supporting ANSI colors by way of HTML font tags. > I don't think you would want to allow color codes any other way, imo. > Whether or not to have it enabled by default is debatable, but I'd > suggest to have it enabled. Anybody who doesn't like colors is probably > going to be technical enough to edit their .pinerc or enter setup and > disable it. I can understand the frustration and resistance, however. I > gave up on pine back in the day when it didn't understand HTML E-mails. > I'd b)ounce them to Outlook and try to encourage people not to send as > HTML. Most had no idea they were sending HTML. But nowadays E-mail is > HTMLified to hell and to try to discourage would be a waste of time, as > Lucio noted. That would work. The script-writing and filtering people could just use HTML font color tags instead of ANSI escape sequences and this problem would be solved for them. With "force-xterm-256color" it could get pretty close to the original color scheme, I guess, but I'm not sure how hard that is to pull off. Is there a set color mapping for those 256 colors? If so, I still think you'd need to have a bunch of code to translate the HTML color encoding to ANSI escape sequences. Maybe a more limited pallet would be easier. HTML does 24-bit color (256^3 = 16.7 million colors), right? Maybe there is an easy rule for reducing the 24-bit to 8-bit, or to 8-color or 16-color. More here: http://www.washington.edu/alpine/tech-notes/config.html Mike From mrc+alpine at panda.com Fri May 14 17:03:08 2010 From: mrc+alpine at panda.com (Mark Crispin) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] colors with alpine using html? In-Reply-To: References: <4BEDCEF5.70500@FreeBSD.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 14 May 2010, Mike Miller wrote: > Sorry, I'm out of time for you now so I can't read more. You've wasted > your allotment of my time for today. And this thread has wasted this mailing list's allotment of my time forever. I'm unsubscribing. Good bye. -- Mark -- http://panda.com/mrc Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote. From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Fri May 14 17:06:54 2010 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] colors with alpine using html? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 14 May 2010, Benjamin R. Haskell wrote: > On Fri, 14 May 2010, Mike Miller wrote: > >> Are you saying that it is not possible now for someone to send a binary >> sequence in a message body and cause Alpine to do weird things, but if >> Alpine were reading ANSI color info in the text body, then it might do >> weird things? > > That's an accurate paraphrase of the issue. If it were truly limited to > 'color', probably not an issue. But it's much easier to just pass > through the escape sequences. Just thinking -- to do this securerly, wouldn't the easiest way be to pass certain escape sequences to the terminal, the ones that control color, and treat the others in the way they are treated now? Then the option (not turned on by default) would be... [ ] pass ANSI color escape sequences in message body to terminal If that is safe (it sure sounds safe), and not hard to implement, I see it as a step in the right direction despite all of the (somewhat misguided, in my opinion, sorry guys) protests I have heard so far. Mike From dougb at FreeBSD.org Fri May 14 18:23:12 2010 From: dougb at FreeBSD.org (Doug Barton) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] colors with alpine using html? In-Reply-To: References: <4BEDCEF5.70500@FreeBSD.org> Message-ID: <4BEDF780.4020507@FreeBSD.org> On 5/14/2010 4:43 PM, Mike Miller wrote: > On Fri, 14 May 2010, Doug Barton wrote: > >> On 5/14/2010 2:35 PM, Mike Miller wrote: >> >>> Sure, but you are also trying to encourage developers to not >>> provide the option at all, >> >> If it's a bad idea, it should be discouraged. > > But it's a good idea, so it should be encouraged. You've clearly missed the numerous messages where people have told you that this is not the case. > Also, people who haven't read the thread shouldn't pick up on one > clueless guy's message and then jump in there as if they know what is > going on. I actually have read the thread. The fact that I don't agree with your "reasoning" (which basically consists of the same stuff repeated over and over, with no appreciable measure of clue entering your skull) shouldn't be mistaken for the fact that I don't understand what you've said. >>> even though at least one other person (me) wants it >> >> I'm not clear about this. Are you saying that you're willing to do >> the work to develop the option, or are you asking someone else to >> do it for you? > > You should read the other messages and all will be revealed. It's called a rhetorical point. What I wrote is a polite way of saying "if you're not going to do the work then STFU." I think it's unfortunate that you not only (apparently) refused to read the rest of my post where I explained more reasons that you should shut up and go away, but you have now irritated one of the truly (one could argue the most) useful single member of the list into unsubscribing which is exactly the kind of "cost" that I was referring to in my previous post. List admins, I'd like to suggest that Mr. Miller be permanently banned from participation in all things alpine-related, and that Mr. Crispin be sent a note explaining that threads which are such ludicrous wastes of everyone's time will be cut off at the knees promptly in the future. Doug -- ... and that's just a little bit of history repeating. -- Propellerheads Improve the effectiveness of your Internet presence with a domain name makeover! http://SupersetSolutions.com/ From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Fri May 14 19:26:32 2010 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] colors with alpine using html? In-Reply-To: <4BEDF780.4020507@FreeBSD.org> References: <4BEDCEF5.70500@FreeBSD.org> <4BEDF780.4020507@FreeBSD.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 14 May 2010, Doug Barton wrote: > On 5/14/2010 4:43 PM, Mike Miller wrote: >> On Fri, 14 May 2010, Doug Barton wrote: >> >>> On 5/14/2010 2:35 PM, Mike Miller wrote: >>> >>>> Sure, but you are also trying to encourage developers to not >>>> provide the option at all, >>> >>> If it's a bad idea, it should be discouraged. >> >> But it's a good idea, so it should be encouraged. > > You've clearly missed the numerous messages where people have told you > that this is not the case. I missed every message that had a good reason why it's a bad idea. Lucio's thinking is that he doesn't want to see colored text in Alpine. I have nothing good to say about the "logic" of his thinking on this topic. If someone says, "hey, here's a good idea for a feature," Lucio's answer is "don't help that man." Thanks a friggin' lot. Yes, I'm not happy. It's silly and disrespecful. I put a considerable effort into helping the OP. I had good ideas. You might not agree, but you are wrong. Feel free to persuade me, but sending more childish and insulting messages won't work. >> You should read the other messages and all will be revealed. > > It's called a rhetorical point. What I wrote is a polite way of saying > "if you're not going to do the work then STFU." Here's a polite way of saying "FY,A." > I think it's unfortunate that you not only (apparently) refused to read > the rest of my post where I explained more reasons that you should shut > up and go away Wow. Now I'm really sorry I stopped reading. You're reallly taking the high road here. What have you done lately on this list to help anyone? What have you contributed? > List admins, I'd like to suggest that Mr. Miller be permanently banned > from participation in all things alpine-related, and that Mr. Crispin be > sent a note explaining that threads which are such ludicrous wastes of > everyone's time will be cut off at the knees promptly in the future. If you don't want it, don't contribute to it, don't send incendiary, insulting messages in an effort to provoke people. Mike From johnrbowman at gmail.com Fri May 14 23:26:04 2010 From: johnrbowman at gmail.com (Jack Bowman) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Reply-all strangeness In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: (I'm not going to try to change how the emails are getting sent to me, unless someone can recommend a simple process for running the headers through some other program before alpine sees them. However, I don't have access to the IMAP server I'm getting these emails from. This seems to a bug in alpine, and other IMAP clients handle these headers correctly.) Thanks for the input. I'm not very familiar with the alpine source. From this conversation I'm thinking I should look in this file "alpine-2.00/imap/src/c-client/rfc822.c" for the code that handles parsing headers and folding whitespace? - Jack Bowman On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 4:57 PM, Benjamin R. Haskell wrote: > On Fri, 14 May 2010, Matt Ackeret wrote: > > > On Fri, 14 May 2010, Jack Bowman wrote: > > >Right. To be absolutely clear about the formatting I saved a sample > message > > >locally and opened it up. The format looks like > > > > > >Cc: firstemailaddress (first fullname), > > >^Isecondemailaddress (second fullname), > > >^Ithirdemailaddress (third fullname) > > > > > >So each email address is on a new line that begins with tab (and the > > >previous line has a trailing space). I imagine that alpine is picking > > >up this tab character instead of ignoring it. > > > > > >Is this fixable in some way? > > > > I'd suggest you figure out why the tabs are getting there in the first > > place. (i.e. check which email program the originator is using - it > > may be in the full headers) > > > > I wouldn't be surprised if that was an illegal character. > > > > alpine could theoretically filter those out as a workaround, but it > > really seems broken on the source end. > > Nope. It's fine by the specs. I looked this up back when alpine was > munging long 'Subject:' headers that were using Yahoo!'s (IIRC) > preferred folding of: > > Header: This is a > long header > > RFC 2822, something about 'folding whitespace' (again, IIRC). > > -- > Best, > Ben > _______________________________________________ > Alpine-info mailing list > Alpine-info@u.washington.edu > http://mailman13.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/alpine-info > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mats at dufberg.se Fri May 14 23:37:59 2010 From: mats at dufberg.se (Mats Dufberg) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Reply-all strangeness In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On maj 14, 2010, 16:26 (-0400) Jack Bowman wrote: > Right. To be absolutely clear about the formatting I saved a sample > message locally and opened it up. The format looks like > > Cc: firstemailaddress (first fullname), > ^Isecondemailaddress (second fullname), > ^Ithirdemailaddress (third fullname) > > So each email address is on a new line that begins with tab (and the > previous line has a trailing space). I imagine that alpine is picking up > this tab character instead of ignoring it. > > Is this fixable in some way? The CC header looks fine and is accourding to the RFC's. It appears to be a bug in alpine. The problem is that there is no development anymore at UW... Mats ----------------------------------------------------------------- Mats Dufberg mats@dufberg.se Bl?arvsgr?nd 42 +46-8-38 48 59 SE-162 45 V?llingby, Sweden +46-70-258 2588 From ruskie at codemages.net Fri May 14 23:45:20 2010 From: ruskie at codemages.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andra=C5=BE_'ruskie'_Levstik?=) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Reply-all strangeness In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: :2010-05-15T08:37:Mats Dufberg: > The CC header looks fine and is accourding to the RFC's. It appears to be > a bug in alpine. The problem is that there is no development anymore at > UW... But there is at re-alpine. Atleast for applying patches and so on. So if anyone is willing to fix it and provide a patch I'm willing to apply it and make a release. Sadly my C-foo is near to nonexistant for anything much else. -- Andra? 'ruskie' Levstik Source Mage GNU/Linux Games/Xorg grimoire guru Re-Alpine Coordinator http://sourceforge.net/projects/re-alpine/ Geek/Hacker/Tinker Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? From jtwdyp at ttlc.net Sat May 15 00:29:23 2010 From: jtwdyp at ttlc.net (Joe(theWordy)Philbrook) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Re: colors with alpine using html? (and or other encodeing schema) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It would appear that on May 14, Mike Miller did say: > It isn't clear to me why someone would want to keep it turned off, though. You > probably don't receive messages with ANSI color, but if you do, why wouldn't > you want to see it? The color might not "belong" there, in your philosophy, > but if it is there, you don't want to see it? You just want to see the messy > code instead? Pardon me for jumping in here but... I don't want either the "color" or the "messy code" I want the 'text' in plain text... if it's not 'text', put it in an attachment. I don't want people to get used to including such 'messy code' which I can't even read without either having to pipe the message through some custom reader or {if alpine had the option} enabling that some one else can mess with my carefully chosen personal text color settings that I read comfortably without eyestrain. That "messy code" doesn't belong in the text message body of an email. I'd have no objections to receiving stuff like that in an attachment, _IF_ the actual text body contains _BOTH_ how-to 'view it as the sender intended' instructions, AND an explanation of why I should want to do so. (though unless said reason was compelling my usual reaction would still be 'delete') If I wanted the sender to control the _displayed_ color of the "_TEXT_" body of my email, I'd use something closer to outlook... I specifically chose alpine as my email client to avoid that kind of {expletive deleted}! -- | ~^~ ~^~ | <*> <*> Joe (theWordy) Philbrook | ^ J(tWdy)P | \___/ <> From romkra at gmx.net Sat May 15 04:35:00 2010 From: romkra at gmx.net (romkra@gmx.net) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] handling encrypted emails Message-ID: Hei, I have started with encrypting emails via topal/GnuPG in Alpine 2.00. I would like to have all emails in my local mail folders not encrypted. The default seems to be that emails are saved encryted. Is there someone around who knwos if the following is possible in alpine? 1. Saving an outgoing email BEFORE encryption to the 'sent-mail' (or fcc) folder 2. Saving a decrypted version of an incomming encryted email to a mail folder Thanks in advance Roman From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Sat May 15 08:10:01 2010 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Re: colors with alpine using html? (and or other encodeing schema) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, 15 May 2010, Joe(theWordy)Philbrook wrote: > It would appear that on May 14, Mike Miller did say: > >> It isn't clear to me why someone would want to keep it turned off, >> though. You probably don't receive messages with ANSI color, but if you >> do, why wouldn't you want to see it? The color might not "belong" >> there, in your philosophy, but if it is there, you don't want to see >> it? You just want to see the messy code instead? > > Pardon me for jumping in here but... No, thanks. Go back to the beginning of the thread and read the first five messages. Thanks. Mike From dougb at FreeBSD.org Sat May 15 11:44:19 2010 From: dougb at FreeBSD.org (Doug Barton) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] handling encrypted emails In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4BEEEB83.3060600@FreeBSD.org> On 05/15/10 04:35, romkra@gmx.net wrote: > Hei, > > I have started with encrypting emails via topal/GnuPG in Alpine 2.00. Modesty aside, you might want to look at http://dougbarton.us/PGP/ppf/index.html as well. > I would like to have all emails in my local mail folders not encrypted. > The default seems to be that emails are saved encryted. Alpine saves the message as it was sent. > Is there someone > around who knwos if the following is possible in alpine? > > 1. Saving an outgoing email BEFORE encryption to the 'sent-mail' > (or fcc) folder > > 2. Saving a decrypted version of an incomming encryted email to a > mail folder Neither of those are possible. Probably the easiest way to accomplish what you want is to bounce yourself a copy of the unencrypted message. You could either cc/bcc yourself a copy when you send it, then bounce that message after you receive it, or go to the sent folder and bounce yourself that message. Not quite as convenient as doing it automatically of course ... OTOH, you might want to reconsider whether storing it unencrypted is the right thing to do in the first place. The generally accepted method of making sure you can read a message that you've encrypted to someone else is to add your own key to the list of keys that the message is encrypted to. I use encrypt-to in my gpg.conf for this purpose. Check the man page for more information on that option. hth, Doug -- ... and that's just a little bit of history repeating. -- Propellerheads Improve the effectiveness of your Internet presence with a domain name makeover! http://SupersetSolutions.com/ From geoff at QuiteLikely.com Sat May 15 13:31:10 2010 From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] handling encrypted emails In-Reply-To: <4BEEEB83.3060600@FreeBSD.org> References: <4BEEEB83.3060600@FreeBSD.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 15 May 2010, Doug Barton wrote: >> I would like to have all emails in my local mail folders not encrypted. >> The default seems to be that emails are saved encryted. > > Alpine saves the message as it was sent. Just a thought. Would an export save the unencrypted version? Since export puts an mbox-style From line at the top of each message, it would seem to me that a file containing exported messages could be opened as a folder. Geoff. From chappa at u.washington.edu Sun May 16 15:26:20 2010 From: chappa at u.washington.edu (Eduardo Chappa) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Reply-all strangeness In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 14 May 2010, Jack Bowman wrote: :) Here's my problem. When I try to reply all to these emails, alpine :) often interprets some of the addresses (and names) as starting with :) spaces. So in the message I'm composing it'll say something like :) :) Cc: "Firstname Doe" <"????? AnotherEmail2@domain.com"> :) :) This leads to all kinds of problems. What can I do to get alpine to :) recognize the emails and names without adding extraneous quotes and :) spaces? Dear Jack, Thank you for the report and sharing information about this problem off list. As we could determine, the problem comes from the fact that the IMAP server is sending the mailbox of the address as " mailbox" (with leading spaces). There are two problems in this case. On the one hand, RFC 2822 does not allow spaces in a mailbox (nor host) part of the email address. Yet, the server sends a mailbox part that contains spacs. On the other hand, the c-client library parses the information coming from the server as a nstring (a restricted string which could be NULL). The problem here is that RFC 3501 accepts spaces in nstrings, so the c-client library will no strip the spaces that are not supposed to be there in the first place. I think it is the responsibility of the library, not the client, to strip the spaces from where they should not be, so I wrote a patch that does that. The patch is at http://staff.washington.edu/chappa/alpine/info/slurpws.html Thank you for your report. -- Eduardo http://staff.washington.edu/chappa/alpine/ From johnrbowman at gmail.com Sun May 16 17:58:21 2010 From: johnrbowman at gmail.com (Jack Bowman) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Reply-all strangeness In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Eduardo, I tried the patch and it resolves my issue! Many thanks, Jack On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 6:26 PM, Eduardo Chappa wrote: > On Fri, 14 May 2010, Jack Bowman wrote: > > :) Here's my problem. When I try to reply all to these emails, alpine > :) often interprets some of the addresses (and names) as starting with > :) spaces. So in the message I'm composing it'll say something like > :) > :) Cc: "Firstname Doe" <" AnotherEmail2@domain.com"> > :) > :) This leads to all kinds of problems. What can I do to get alpine to > :) recognize the emails and names without adding extraneous quotes and > :) spaces? > > Dear Jack, > > Thank you for the report and sharing information about this problem off > list. As we could determine, the problem comes from the fact that the IMAP > server is sending the mailbox of the address as " mailbox" (with > leading spaces). There are two problems in this case. > > On the one hand, RFC 2822 does not allow spaces in a mailbox (nor host) > part of the email address. Yet, the server sends a mailbox part that > contains spacs. > > On the other hand, the c-client library parses the information coming > from the server as a nstring (a restricted string which could be NULL). > The problem here is that RFC 3501 accepts spaces in nstrings, so the > c-client library will no strip the spaces that are not supposed to be > there in the first place. > > I think it is the responsibility of the library, not the client, to > strip the spaces from where they should not be, so I wrote a patch that > does that. > > The patch is at > > http://staff.washington.edu/chappa/alpine/info/slurpws.html > > Thank you for your report. > > -- > Eduardo > http://staff.washington.edu/chappa/alpine/ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eigen at gmx.com Mon May 17 19:33:28 2010 From: eigen at gmx.com (eigen) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] new mail notification in alpine Message-ID: Hi everyone, I was just getting started with alpine and I really liked it. But just to see if it can make things better, is there a way to have new mail notification from alpine? I heard someone did it with conky, but I haven't seen any specific instructions. I mean it does not have to be conky+alpine. Anything that just works. Thanks. Best, eigen From bikefridaywalter at gmail.com Tue May 18 09:19:23 2010 From: bikefridaywalter at gmail.com (bikefridaywalter@gmail.com) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] weird save behavior Message-ID: So I've got some IMAP collections of Gmail and was trying to move a message to a folder (save, of course, in alpine parlance). If I am currently on the last message in the list, everything is normal. However, if I want to select a message higher up, there is nothing I can do that does not cause it to move 2 messages. What gives? From chappa at u.washington.edu Tue May 18 13:55:07 2010 From: chappa at u.washington.edu (Eduardo Chappa) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] new mail notification in alpine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 17 May 2010, eigen wrote: :) I was just getting started with alpine and I really liked it. But just :) to see if it can make things better, is there a way to have new mail :) notification from alpine? Yes, you need to press M S C and set the variable NewMail FIFO Path = to the path of a file that when you cat you will see the notification message. Press "?" for more help once you have put the cursor on that option, or if you are using a patched version of Alpine you can follow the following link x-alpine-help:h_config_fifopath -- Eduardo http://staff.washington.edu/chappa/alpine/ From bikefridaywalter at gmail.com Tue May 18 17:06:34 2010 From: bikefridaywalter at gmail.com (bikefridaywalter@gmail.com) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] save folder alias? Message-ID: I have a variety of Gmail/IMAP accounts set up in Alpine. I would like to save to {imap.gmail.com/ssl/user=account@gmail.com}[Gmail]/Trash instead of delete. However, that's a pain in the posterior to type out. Is there a way to have aliases? From damion.yates at gmail.com Tue May 18 17:55:17 2010 From: damion.yates at gmail.com (damion.yates@gmail.com) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] save folder alias? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 19 May 2010, bikefridaywalter@gmail.com wrote: > I have a variety of Gmail/IMAP accounts set up in Alpine. I would like > to save to {imap.gmail.com/ssl/user=account@gmail.com}[Gmail]/Trash > instead of delete. However, that's a pain in the posterior to type > out. Is there a way to have aliases? Just checking that you are aware that if you turn on the advanced imap settings lab you can choose (d)elete to save to Trash rather than to just remove label (normally an archive action if the only label is inbox). You might already be using (d)elete for archive and this save for when you wish to truely delete? Otherwise this info may be useful. Damion From bikefridaywalter at gmail.com Tue May 18 17:59:10 2010 From: bikefridaywalter at gmail.com (bikefridaywalter@gmail.com) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] save folder alias? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Oh, missed that. I had grown accustomed to the idea of putting stuff I didn't want (mailling lists) in Trash and deleting the rest (i.e. to All Mail). If I grok you correctly, it doesn't sound like this will necessarily help with that but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. On Wed, 19 May 2010, damion.yates@gmail.com wrote: > On Wed, 19 May 2010, bikefridaywalter@gmail.com wrote: > >> I have a variety of Gmail/IMAP accounts set up in Alpine. I would like >> to save to {imap.gmail.com/ssl/user=account@gmail.com}[Gmail]/Trash >> instead of delete. However, that's a pain in the posterior to type >> out. Is there a way to have aliases? > > Just checking that you are aware that if you turn on the advanced imap > settings lab you can choose (d)elete to save to Trash rather than to > just remove label (normally an archive action if the only label is > inbox). You might already be using (d)elete for archive and this save > for when you wish to truely delete? Otherwise this info may be useful. From lucio at lambrate.inaf.it Wed May 19 01:43:39 2010 From: lucio at lambrate.inaf.it (Lucio Chiappetti) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] new mail notification in alpine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 17 May 2010, eigen wrote: > if it can make things better, is there a way to have new mail > notification from alpine? Personally I don't like the biff/comsat stuff and alike, but my pine / alpine has always beeped once when new mail arrives (or within less than a minute) and that default behaviour is definitely enough for me. If you are in the message index of the main incoming folder, you can always accelerate the checking for new mail pressing down-arrow a few times. I sometimes keep a "tailf log" in a terminal window (where log is procmail's log file - all my incoming mail is filtered by procmail) and see a message is arrived before pine beeps, and if I notice it and it's worth looking soon, the down-arrow trick works. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Lucio Chiappetti - INAF/IASF - via Bassini 15 - I-20133 Milano (Italy) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Voi chiamate il campo d'onore questa terra di la' dei confini; qui si muore gridando: assassini! maledetti sarete un di'. http://www.ordet.it/lyrics/gorizia.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------ For more info : http://www.iasf-milano.inaf.it/~lucio/personal.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From jtwdyp at ttlc.net Wed May 19 01:46:16 2010 From: jtwdyp at ttlc.net (Joe(theWordy)Philbrook) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] How to refresh NNTP list if network not up until after alpine starts? Message-ID: Is there a way to tell a running instance of alpine to enable access to the subscribed newsgroups that it already decided didn't exist when alpine was initialized??? I use alpine as my primary/only email/newsgroup client. I've used it and/or pine for several years now. Currently my PC is a laptop with a wired Ethernet connection to the Internet via cable broadband (DHCP) Currently I use startx to launch E17 as my desktop with a line in my ~/.xinitrc that fires up a nearly full screen konsole window with alpine; konsole --workdir ~/mail --name F2alpine --profile BlackGray -e alpine & which E17's remember window utility recognizes by the window class "F2alpine" and automatically places it on my 2nd desktop area which I access via a '^F2' keybinding. Thus I always know where to find my running alpine window. However I sometimes bring my Laptop out to the Livingroom where I can use it off-line. On those occasions it might stay there a couple of days while I multi-task various computer chores with watching TV and trying to fool my lady into thinking she remembers what I look like. (durned PC steals too much of my so called free time don'tcha know) Anyway: If I boot the PC in the Livingroom where there isn't an Ethernet cable the network configuration fails. but I can still use alpine to access previously downloaded email & articles. And even compose replies (providing I don't mind postponing them.) Occasionally While in the middle of operating this way I will want to send, or check replies to, an email or newsgroup article. So I'll carry the laptop into the office and connect the Ethernet cable, execute a "dhcpcd -i eth0" to enable the network. On those occasions I wind up having to quit and restart alpine for the express purpose of getting it to believe my subscribed newsgroups exist. This irks me a little... Thus the question: Is there a way to tell a running instance of alpine to enable access to the subscribed newsgroups that it already decided didn't exist when alpine was initialized??? -- | ~^~ ~^~ | Joe (theWordy) Philbrook | ^ J(tWdy)P | \___/ <> From damion.yates at gmail.com Wed May 19 05:32:20 2010 From: damion.yates at gmail.com (damion.yates@gmail.com) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] save folder alias? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 19 May 2010, bikefridaywalter@gmail.com wrote: > Oh, missed that. I had grown accustomed to the idea of putting stuff I > didn't want (mailling lists) in Trash and deleting the rest (i.e. to > All Mail). If I grok you correctly, it doesn't sound like this will > necessarily help with that but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. So you're using D as an intentional archive option, sending from inbox to all mail. And you're using saving to Trash to properly delete the email (normally after 30 days when Trash is cleared). All I can suggest is adding filters to add extra labels to mailing lists so that when you delete from inbox they are in those extra folders, so you have the option of mass deleting by foldername, all read emails. I don't know about aliasing, I've adapted my uses around since receiving such a large quantity of email but no longer needing to worry about safety of the emails or space it takes up. Damion From mattack at apple.com Wed May 19 11:15:15 2010 From: mattack at apple.com (Matt Ackeret) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] How to refresh NNTP list if network not up until after alpine starts? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 19 May 2010, Joe(theWordy)Philbrook wrote: >Is there a way to tell a running instance of alpine to enable access to >the subscribed newsgroups that it already decided didn't exist when >alpine was initialized??? I'm not sure, but does using < to go all the way back up to the collection list, then 'entering' (with > or return) the collection for the news server work? That, for example, is the way to reconnect a mail server that has been disconnected (e.g. IMAP connection that was lost). It seems to me that alpine is generally user-interface agnostic enough that the same thing should work for news servers.. but I haven't really seriously used pine/alpine for news (only a bit way back when when I couldn't get trn running..and now I haven't had a news server for years..) From pjb at scm.tees.ac.uk Thu May 20 03:03:43 2010 From: pjb at scm.tees.ac.uk (Phil Brooke) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] handling encrypted emails In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, On Sat, 15 May 2010, romkra@gmx.net wrote: > I have started with encrypting emails via topal/GnuPG in Alpine 2.00. I would > like to have all emails in my local mail folders not encrypted. The default > seems to be that emails are saved encryted. Is there someone around who knwos > if the following is possible in alpine? > > 1. Saving an outgoing email BEFORE encryption to the 'sent-mail' > (or fcc) folder Not currently. I (think I) can see a relatively easy way to make Topal write to a local mbox, if that is any use. > 2. Saving a decrypted version of an incomming encryted email to a > mail folder Not directly, but depending on your use case, the caching feature of Topal may be suitable. That caching may also help with your first query. Feel free to email directly: I only read mailing lists every week or so.... Cheers, Phil. From edatva at gmail.com Thu May 20 15:42:47 2010 From: edatva at gmail.com (edatva@gmail.com) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] how to label/move gmail in alpine Message-ID: I am just getting started with alpine. Now I have set up a gmail account in alpine (browsing emails through imap and sending emails through smtp). But is there a way to label and move a mail in alpine just like what I did in gmail's web interface? Thanks. From jtwdyp at ttlc.net Fri May 21 02:05:45 2010 From: jtwdyp at ttlc.net (Joe(theWordy)Philbrook) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Re: How to refresh NNTP list if network not up until after alpine starts? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It would appear that on May 19, Matt Ackeret did say: > On Wed, 19 May 2010, Joe(theWordy)Philbrook wrote: > >Is there a way to tell a running instance of alpine to enable access to > >the subscribed newsgroups that it already decided didn't exist when > >alpine was initialized??? > > I'm not sure, but does using < to go all the way back up to the collection > list, then 'entering' (with > or return) the collection for the news server > work? > > That, for example, is the way to reconnect a mail server that has been > disconnected (e.g. IMAP connection that was lost). > > It seems to me that alpine is generally user-interface agnostic enough that > the same thing should work for news servers.. but I haven't really seriously > used pine/alpine for news (only a bit way back when when I couldn't get > trn running..and now I haven't had a news server for years..) Thanks for the suggestion Matt. However I've discovered that this is apparently a Linux distribution related issue. I'm a multi-boot fanatic. I'm never comfortable unless I've got at least three fully configured (with personal setting tweaks in place) Linux distros installed. I like it that way because if I do something stupid, or if some system update does it for me, and something I need gets broken, I can generally finish whatever I'm doing and research a fix just by rebooting into one of the other two Linux where it ain't broke yet... Well I found that I like most things about Arch Linux and spend most of my computer time in it. But I just found out that this issue is apparently specific to Arch. In both Arch & in my Xubuntu Karmic installation I'm running Alpine 2.00... With Arch however, if I boot without the Ethernet connection, I need to do a `dhcpcd -i eth0` or a '/etc/rc.d/network restart' after I connect the Ethernet cable before I can ping my ISP (though there is a wiki how-to on automating the process with the ifplugd package) And with Karmic all I gotta do is wait a few seconds after plugging in the Ethernet cable. What I just discovered is that your suggestion works with Alpine 2.00 in Xubuntu Karmic (at least if I back all the way up to the main menu). But in Arch, also with Alpine 2.00, nothing short of starting a new instance of alpine works. Since both Alpines are theoretically the same, the problem must be something in the way Arch does things. In any case, I guess that means this is a non-alpine problem. But thanks again for the reply. -- | ~^~ ~^~ | <*> <*> Joe (theWordy) Philbrook | ^ J(tWdy)P | \___/ <> From mattack at apple.com Fri May 28 11:42:43 2010 From: mattack at apple.com (Matt Ackeret) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:48 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] alpine threaded newer message as parent of older AND the messages shouldn't be threaded in the first place. Message-ID: I have seen various things like this before.. I just got a response to an email, and it threaded with a previous message. + 27197 11:36am . RECEIPIENT (2K) Re: SAME SUBJECT + 27198 Yesterday |-RECIPIENT (3K) Re: SAME SUBJECT There are two problems with this... 1) The NEWER message is the "parent" of the older message. 2) The messages are threaded together. I just checked my sent-mail, and I absolutely 100% created a new message. I did NOT reply to an old message. So is alpine actually using subject threading in some cases? I had thought it always did the 'right' thing in using the headers (AFAIK, References: and In-Reply-To:) What's up? thanks.