From pierre.frenkiel at gmail.com Tue Nov 8 00:44:47 2011 From: pierre.frenkiel at gmail.com (Pierre Frenkiel) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] display of html content Message-ID: hi, Although html is not generally recomended for usual mails, it is useful in some cases. Most modern mailers display correctly the html content, including images. I didn't find how to do that with alpine, but if I tranfer the mail to my smartphone, the html is displayed, including images. Is there a way to do that with alpine? -- Pierre Frenkiel From drf at maplepark.com Tue Nov 8 03:57:57 2011 From: drf at maplepark.com (David Forrest) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] display of html content In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Nov 2011, Pierre Frenkiel wrote: > hi, > Although html is not generally recomended for usual mails, it is useful > in some cases. Most modern mailers display correctly the html content, > including images. I didn't find how to do that with alpine, but if I tranfer > the mail to my smartphone, the html is displayed, including images. > Is there a way to do that with alpine? > See config > Viewer Preferences > Prefer Plain Text This allows the alternate viewer (html) by using a one character command by message. -- David Forrest St. Louis, Missouri (Sent by ALPINE 2.02 FEDORA 11 LINUX) From ruskie at codemages.net Tue Nov 8 04:48:18 2011 From: ruskie at codemages.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andra=C5=BE_'ruskie'_Levstik?=) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] display of html content In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: :2011-11-08T09:44:Pierre Frenkiel: > hi, > Although html is not generally recomended for usual mails, it is useful > in some cases. Most modern mailers display correctly the html content, > including images. I didn't find how to do that with alpine, but if I tranfer > the mail to my smartphone, the html is displayed, including images. > Is there a way to do that with alpine? Simple setup a .mailcap file with: text/html; elinks -dump %s; copiousoutput Or text/html; DISPLAY=:0 firefox %s Or something to that effect. Search for setting up mailcap for graphical browser or something. That way you'll get either a full graphical view(if you have an X session to use) or a dumped formated html no pics. -- Andra? 'ruskie' Levstik Source Mage GNU/Linux Games/Xorg grimoire guru Re-Alpine Coordinator http://sourceforge.net/projects/re-alpine/ Geek/Hacker/Tinker I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend your right to say it. From mattack at apple.com Tue Nov 8 11:13:21 2011 From: mattack at apple.com (Matt Ackeret) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] display of html content In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Nov 2011, David Forrest wrote: > See config > Viewer Preferences > Prefer Plain Text > > This allows the alternate viewer (html) by using a one character command by > message. In other words, if you have prefer plain text turned on, alpine prefers the plain text part when a message contains plain text and rich/html info (ptooey). However, for some messages, you need to see the rich part.. With prefer plain text on, you can hit A to view the rich/html part FOR THAT MESSAGE. If you turn off prefer plain text, you'll see the rich/html part by default (textified in alpine's viewer of course). From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Tue Nov 8 15:02:40 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] display of html content In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Nov 2011, Pierre Frenkiel wrote: > Although html is not generally recomended for usual mails, it is useful > in some cases. Most modern mailers display correctly the html content, > including images. I didn't find how to do that with alpine, but if I > tranfer the mail to my smartphone, the html is displayed, including > images. Is there a way to do that with alpine? I don't think any of the responses posted so far are telling you what you need to know. I often look at HTML attachments in a browser, but that doesn't seem to handle the images, which have to be viewed separately. I think the answer to your question probably is 'no' because if an html attachment is viewed in a browser, the images are still back in the email message, so they won't be seen. So to view the message as it was meant to be seen, I think you have to use something else, like maybe Thunderbird. Mike From jrjfreer at gmail.com Wed Nov 9 14:17:55 2011 From: jrjfreer at gmail.com (James Freer) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] display of html content In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 8 November 2011 23:02, Mike Miller wrote: > On Tue, 8 Nov 2011, Pierre Frenkiel wrote: > >> Although html is not generally recomended for usual mails, it is useful in >> some cases. Most modern mailers display correctly the html content, >> including images. I didn't find how to do that with alpine, but if I tranfer >> the mail to my smartphone, the html is displayed, including images. Is there >> a way to do that with alpine? > > > I don't think any of the responses posted so far are telling you what you > need to know. ?I often look at HTML attachments in a browser, but that > doesn't seem to handle the images, which have to be viewed separately. > > I think the answer to your question probably is 'no' because if an html > attachment is viewed in a browser, the images are still back in the email > message, so they won't be seen. > > So to view the message as it was meant to be seen, I think you have to use > something else, like maybe Thunderbird. > > Mike I've been wondering how to do this myself... sorry but i don't follow these responses. It seems to me that alpine as a text email client doesn't allow one to view an email as html. To me the beauty of alpine is its speed. As each of us use gmail - it's easier just to flag such a message whilst in Alpine and then look at it through gmail's web interface. Alpine does somehow allow the text of an html message to be read whereas Cone wouldn't i found. As for using Thunderbird or Evolution - i found on imap they were both so slow they weren't worth using. james From bret at busby.net Wed Nov 9 19:55:44 2011 From: bret at busby.net (Bret Busby) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Query about setting plugins Message-ID: Hello. I am using ALPINE 1.10(962) running on Debian Linux 5. When I receive a PDF attachment, to view it, ALPINE oens the file using kpdf. I cannot print from kpdf. I have Acrobat Reader 9 installed, and I can print from that application. How do I set ALPINE to open PDF attachments using Acrobat Reader? Thank you in anticipation. -- Bret Busby Armadale West Australia .............. "So once you do know what the question actually is, you'll know what the answer means." - Deep Thought, Chapter 28 of Book 1 of "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: A Trilogy In Four Parts", written by Douglas Adams, published by Pan Books, 1992 .................................................... From morgan at orst.edu Wed Nov 9 22:01:52 2011 From: morgan at orst.edu (Andrew Morgan) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Query about setting plugins In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Nov 2011, Bret Busby wrote: > Hello. > > I am using ALPINE 1.10(962) running on Debian Linux 5. > > When I receive a PDF attachment, to view it, ALPINE oens the file using kpdf. > > I cannot print from kpdf. > > I have Acrobat Reader 9 installed, and I can print from that application. > > How do I set ALPINE to open PDF attachments using Acrobat Reader? > > Thank you in anticipation. Look at the file /etc/mailcap. It sets the mappings from MIME types to applications. Note - if you want to override a setting, your best bet may be to create a .mailcap file in your home directory. There are comments at the top of /etc/mailcap to get you started. Andy From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Thu Nov 10 15:52:52 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] display of html content In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Nov 2011, James Freer wrote: > I've been wondering how to do this myself... sorry but i don't follow > these responses. It seems to me that alpine as a text email client > doesn't allow one to view an email as html. Not quite. If an email message is HTML, then there is an HTML attachment. Alpine can display the HTML attachment as text, but it can't reveal all the richness of the document in terms of fonts and things. A second thing Alpine can do is call a web browser to display the HTML attachment. It does that very well and HTML with no embedded graphics will look perfect, as will HTML with embedded graphics that are downloaded from URLs (assuming the internet is available). The place where Alpine seems to fail is when the embedded graphics are attachments to the message. I don't see any easy way to view such messages in a browser. That's why I recommend switching to a different mailer for those occasional messages. No one has come up with another strategy for viewing those messages. > To me the beauty of alpine is its speed. As each of us use gmail - it's > easier just to flag such a message whilst in Alpine and then look at it > through gmail's web interface. Alpine does somehow allow the text of an > html message to be read whereas Cone wouldn't i found. As for using > Thunderbird or Evolution - i found on imap they were both so slow they > weren't worth using. That's why 99% of my email work is done in Alpine. Mike From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Thu Nov 10 23:55:46 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] stripping extra lines from Alpine mbox files Message-ID: When I use a program line MHonArc to make archives of email folders, I need to drop the first 13 lines of the mbox file whenever it is just that extra Alpine "FOLDER INTERNAL DATA" stuff. So I drop the first 13 lines whenever the first line begins with "From MAILER-DAEMON ". Here are two ways to do it that appear to be safe in the sense that they won't drop the initial lines unless they really are the Alpine internal data lines. This creates a second file without the internal data lines: perl -pe 'BEGIN{undef $/} ; s/\AFrom MAILER-DAEMON ([^\n]*\n){13}//s' infile > outfile This changes the input file in place (which changes the files date stamp): perl -pi -e 'BEGIN{undef $/} ; s/\AFrom MAILER-DAEMON ([^\n]*\n){13}//s' infile With the latter method you could use globbing like so: perl -pi -e 'BEGIN{undef $/} ; s/\AFrom MAILER-DAEMON ([^\n]*\n){13}//s' mail/* That would remove the 13 internal data lines from every file in the folder 'mail', but only if such lines existed in the file. It would also change the date stamps on those files. For in-place edits that retain a back-up copy of the original, add '.bak' after the 'i' option: perl -pi.bak -e 'BEGIN{undef $/} ; s/\AFrom MAILER-DAEMON ([^\n]*\n){13}//s' mail/* Then every original file in mail/ will still be there, but with .bak appended to the filename and the new edited versions will have the original names. All of this works on Linux/UNIX and I assume it works on any other system that has perl installed and working. But I now recall that perl in Windows under Cygwin requires the .bak -- even if you use -i it acts as if -i.bak had been used. Mike From lucio at lambrate.inaf.it Fri Nov 11 02:02:33 2011 From: lucio at lambrate.inaf.it (Lucio Chiappetti) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Query about setting plugins In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Nov 2011, Andrew Morgan wrote: > On Thu, 10 Nov 2011, Bret Busby wrote: >> How do I set ALPINE to open PDF attachments using Acrobat Reader? > Look at the file /etc/mailcap. [...] create a .mailcap file in your home > directory. As I just said yesterday in another reply there are two configuration parameters in .pinerc of use Mailcap Search Path = ~/.mailcap:~/.mailcap.pine Mimetype Search Path = ~/.somethingofyourchoice The first one can also be a LIST of files, in fact I use two .mailcap files, one for all client, and one specific for pine. Mailcap associates a mime-type to a viewer. In mine I have Application/PDF; /usr/bin/X11/acroread %s The mime type file instead associates a file extension to a mime type. I find useful to have in it application/pdf pdf PDF this way if some disgraced mail client sends a pdf attachment flagged with the incorrect content-type (usually octet-stream), pine will offer you a choice to open the file by extension (after your consent) From jtwdyp at ttlc.net Sat Nov 12 09:45:31 2011 From: jtwdyp at ttlc.net (Joe(theWordy)Philbrook) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Re: display of html content In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It would appear that on Nov 10, Mike Miller did say: > On Wed, 9 Nov 2011, James Freer wrote: > > > I've been wondering how to do this myself... sorry but i don't follow > > these responses. It seems to me that alpine as a text email client > > doesn't allow one to view an email as html. > > Not quite. If an email message is HTML, then there is an HTML attachment. > Alpine can display the HTML attachment as text, but it can't reveal all the > richness of the document in terms of fonts and things. A second thing Alpine > can do is call a web browser to display the HTML attachment. It does that > very well and HTML with no embedded graphics will look perfect, as will HTML > with embedded graphics that are downloaded from URLs (assuming the internet is > available). The place where Alpine seems to fail is when the embedded > graphics are attachments to the message. I don't see any easy way to view > such messages in a browser. That's why I recommend switching to a different > mailer for those occasional messages. > > No one has come up with another strategy for viewing those messages. I've been reading this thread with some interest as while I generally prefer plain text emails, I also have a strong aversion to any graphical email program I've ever tried. I also routinely download my mail to a local inbox with fetchmail just before reading them with alpine. When/if I find one that I really must see a more graphical rendition of the HTML than the "A" toggle (as described by Matt Ackeret) I usually bounce the mail back to my gmx.com email and then access it (prior to my next fetchmail run) with their webmail interface... Having Alpine call a browser to {*selectively*} display the HTML attachment sounds much more convenient if {like the A toggle} it can be configured to only happen on command, and even then only after I've already tried Alpine's own HTML rendering via the said "A" toggle, and decided to escalate to a browser rendition... I noted that 'ruskie' suggested that setting a .mailcap entry to something like: text/html; DISPLAY=:0 firefox %s would allow for the graphical rendition via the browser to be dependent on X running or not... But assuming I'm running alpine from within X, how then would I get to first try Alpines native HTML rendering {which I'd prefer about 85% of the somewhat rare occasions when I decide to toggle my normally preferred plain-text view with "A" in the first place.} -OR- IF the "A" toggle would still yield Alpines internal HTML rendition, how would I command it to call the browser on {*_just_the_one_*} HTML attachment? -- | ~^~ ~^~ | Joe (theWordy) Philbrook | ^ J(tWdy)P | \___/ <> From ruskie at codemages.net Sat Nov 12 09:51:50 2011 From: ruskie at codemages.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andra=C5=BE_'ruskie'_Levstik?=) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Re: display of html content In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: :2011-11-12T12:45:Joe(theWordy)Philbrook: > IF the "A" toggle would still yield Alpines internal HTML rendition, how > would I command it to call the browser on {*_just_the_one_*} HTML attachment? View attachment list -> select attachment -> hit view ? -- Andra? 'ruskie' Levstik Source Mage GNU/Linux Games/Xorg grimoire guru Re-Alpine Coordinator http://sourceforge.net/projects/re-alpine/ Geek/Hacker/Tinker Communities that make few or no demands on their members cannot command allegiance. All else being equal, members who feel most needed have the strongest allegiance. From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Sat Nov 12 15:01:07 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Re: display of html content In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, 12 Nov 2011, Andra? 'ruskie' Levstik wrote: > :2011-11-12T12:45:Joe(theWordy)Philbrook: > >> IF the "A" toggle would still yield Alpines internal HTML rendition, >> how would I command it to call the browser on {*_just_the_one_*} HTML >> attachment? > > View attachment list -> select attachment -> hit view ? That's what I always do. Occasionally the browser is too slow and the temp file is gone by the time it loads, but it usually works. My problem might be caused by using chromium-browser with a lot of tabs open. Still, this method does not show the embedded images that are additional attachments of the message. I think we need to open something else, like Thunderbird, to see those messages. Mostly for UNIX/Linux (and possibly OS X) users: I just decided to find my own way to deal with this problem. I am using Ubuntu (but this should work on all UNIXes). I've been annoyed by Thunderbird's behavior -- every time I fire it up it creates one .msf file for every mail folder (a.k.a. mbox file) in my ~/mail directory. It also creates an empty ~/mail/Inbox file that I don't want. My Alpine inbox file is ~/mail/inbox (of course Linux file systems are case sensitive). So this is what I did to make things work for myself: mkdir ~/mail2 touch ~/mail/tbird cd ~/mail2 ln -s ../mail/tbird cd - Next I saved an Alpine message in my Alpine tbird folder. Then I opened Thunderbird. It was set to use ~/mail (probably because I had used it previously), so immediately after opening, I clicked on "View Settings for Account" and changed the path from /whatever/mail /whatever/mail2 and exited Thunderbird. Because it was looking in ~/mail/ it created a bunch of files there and I deleted them like so: rm ~/mail/*.msf ~/mail/Inbox (The "Inbox" file was zero bytes and not the "inbox" file Aline uses.) Then I opened Thunderbird again. This time it showed "Local folders" on the left from the ~/mail2/ directory and "tbird" was one of them. I opened it and there was my message. So now when I get a message with html where the embedded graphics are attached to the message, I save a copy in my tbird folder in Alpine, then open Thunderbird to view the message. I added a few more symlinks to ~/mail/ from ~/mail2/ and looked at other Alpine mail folders from Thunderbird. It left all the .msf junk in the ~/mail2/ folder and didn't change files in ~/mail/ so doing things that way makes Thunderbird a fairly convenient reader for those rare occasions where Alpine isn't quite up to the job. Mike From jessejazza3.uk at gmail.com Sat Nov 12 15:05:10 2011 From: jessejazza3.uk at gmail.com (James Freer) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] display of html content In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Nov 2011, Mike Miller wrote: > On Wed, 9 Nov 2011, James Freer wrote: > >> I've been wondering how to do this myself... sorry but i don't follow >> these responses. It seems to me that alpine as a text email client >> doesn't allow one to view an email as html. > > Not quite. If an email message is HTML, then there is an HTML attachment. > Alpine can display the HTML attachment as text, but it can't reveal all the > richness of the document in terms of fonts and things. A second thing Alpine > can do is call a web browser to display the HTML attachment. It does that > very well and HTML with no embedded graphics will look perfect, as will HTML > with embedded graphics that are downloaded from URLs (assuming the internet > is available). The place where Alpine seems to fail is when the embedded > graphics are attachments to the message. I don't see any easy way to view > such messages in a browser. That's why I recommend switching to a different > mailer for those occasional messages. > > No one has come up with another strategy for viewing those messages. > > >> To me the beauty of alpine is its speed. As each of us use gmail - it's >> easier just to flag such a message whilst in Alpine and then look at it >> through gmail's web interface. Alpine does somehow allow the text of an >> html message to be read whereas Cone wouldn't i found. As for using >> Thunderbird or Evolution - i found on imap they were both so slow they >> weren't worth using. > > That's why 99% of my email work is done in Alpine. > > Mike Mike Sorry i couldn't follow what folk were saying at first. I'm only new to Alpine so i'm still learning. But yes i see now - reads the html in a browser fine [although i did have a problem somehow until i switched to Chrome]. thanks james From jessejazza3.uk at gmail.com Sat Nov 12 15:23:07 2011 From: jessejazza3.uk at gmail.com (James Freer) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Re: display of html content In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, 12 Nov 2011, Mike Miller wrote: > On Sat, 12 Nov 2011, Andra? 'ruskie' Levstik wrote: > >> :2011-11-12T12:45:Joe(theWordy)Philbrook: >> >>> IF the "A" toggle would still yield Alpines internal HTML rendition, how >>> would I command it to call the browser on {*_just_the_one_*} HTML >>> attachment? >> >> View attachment list -> select attachment -> hit view ? > > That's what I always do. Occasionally the browser is too slow and the temp > file is gone by the time it loads, but it usually works. My problem might be > caused by using chromium-browser with a lot of tabs open. > ... > Mike I'm using xubuntu 10.04 and i found Firefox and Seamonkey 'hang' a few moments before closing [i was also surprised over the last few months only to have one update for Firefox...think?]. I tried Chromium and found one or two things weren't quite as expected e.g. remembering passwords for forums didn't work. I tried Chrome and that seemed fine [not sure about 'tracking usage', privacy issues, but they seemed to have sorted out a few glitches]. When i compared the two i thought Chrome was a bit faster. Just a thought but if you're more technical than me you may like to have a look at chrome. james From dougb at FreeBSD.org Sat Nov 12 15:27:42 2011 From: dougb at FreeBSD.org (Doug Barton) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Re: display of html content In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4EBF00EE.7060101@FreeBSD.org> On 11/12/2011 15:01, Mike Miller wrote: > Still, this method does not show the embedded images that are additional > attachments of the message. I think we need to open something else, > like Thunderbird, to see those messages. I have the option set in Thunderbird to not automatically download images in HTML mail. By far the overwhelming majority of HTML messages don't include the images, they get downloaded when you open the message. Doug -- "We could put the whole Internet into a book." "Too practical." Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DNS. Yours for the right price. :) http://SupersetSolutions.com/ From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Sat Nov 12 18:30:36 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Re: display of html content In-Reply-To: <4EBF00EE.7060101@FreeBSD.org> References: <4EBF00EE.7060101@FreeBSD.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 12 Nov 2011, Doug Barton wrote: > On 11/12/2011 15:01, Mike Miller wrote: > >> Still, this method does not show the embedded images that are >> additional attachments of the message. I think we need to open >> something else, like Thunderbird, to see those messages. > > I have the option set in Thunderbird to not automatically download > images in HTML mail. By far the overwhelming majority of HTML messages > don't include the images, they get downloaded when you open the message. That's how it is with messages from companies. The messages I get where the images are attached come from people like my parents who forward stuff to me. The last example was a bunch of photos of albino mooses and some of a deer playing with some dogs. In other words, I could probably live without Thunderbird, but I do like to just see now and then what people think they are sending to me. It's also funny now and then to see how many people are using big fonts or colored text -- I never see that -- but you can get that by viewing HTML in an external browser (no Thunderbird needed). Mike From lucio at lambrate.inaf.it Mon Nov 14 00:35:05 2011 From: lucio at lambrate.inaf.it (Lucio Chiappetti) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Re: display of html content In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, 12 Nov 2011, Joe(theWordy)Philbrook wrote: >> Not quite. If an email message is HTML, then there is an HTML >> attachment. > prefer plain text emails, I also have a strong aversion to any graphical > email program I've ever tried. I do hate HTML e-mail, particularly when the same text is repeated in plain text and html, and I devised a procmail arrangement to get rid of it (http://sax.iasf-milano.inaf.it/~lucio/Procmail/noquotenohtml.html). However this arrangement, while putting an edited copy of the message in my inbox, files the original message in a temporary folder where I have a week of time to look at it. In the few cases I really need to look at the HTML (a couple of newsletters which send a text/plain line with an URL, and a text/html with the real stuff) I follow the suggestion below: Andra? 'ruskie' Levstik wrote: > View attachment list -> select attachment -> hit view ? In my case, combined with the .pinerc entries below, this displays the html into a new tab of my running firefox (it should be intended to start one if one is not running too). URL-Viewers = _TEST("firefox -remote('ping()')") firefox _TEST("test -n '${DISPLAY}'") firefox _URL I'm lucky enough that the html I received are proper html pages where the images are loaded from remote resources. I've never encountered one with references to other attachments. Attachment index command in pine is however a great way also to navigate all sort of other *sensible* attachment like pdf docs, ps figures, png or jpg images, even word and excel documents, and call the appropriate viewer. From jtwdyp at ttlc.net Tue Nov 15 09:36:12 2011 From: jtwdyp at ttlc.net (Joe(theWordy)Philbrook) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Re: display of html content In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It would appear that on Nov 10, Mike Miller did say: > The place where Alpine seems to fail is when the embedded > graphics are attachments to the message. I don't see any easy way to view > such messages in a browser. That's why I recommend switching to a different > mailer for those occasional messages. > > No one has come up with another strategy for viewing those messages. Well I'm not so sure I understand why this is so. I'm neither a programmer nor an expert in the nuts n bolts of the email standards. But I have a minimalistic understanding of some rather basic HTML, and I just spent some time playing with just such an HTML email with attached images my sister forwarded to me this Halloween. It had a jpeg image involving clothing stuffed with pumpkins in such a way as to appear to be mooning the viewer. Another with a big distorted smileyface saying "Nana - Nana - Nana" and a tiny animated gif cartoon character that repetitively moons the viewer... I don't know if all HTML mail that include images as attachments, identify the image "src" in the HTML as "cid:${Content-ID}" (Where Content-ID matches the the Content-ID: of the appropriate attachment. But if so, how hard would it be to have an option when saving Text/HTML attachments to file (similar to the export message: "^P" option that will include all parts) that would in this case, modify the saved HTML by replacing the "cid:" references with the associated filenames of the other attachments that would be saved with the Text/HTML one?? I simulated this by exporting the message (with all parts) to an empty directory, then using vim to edit the Text/HTML "part_2.1.2" in another window while I examined the original message in header mode using the WhereIs function to find the cid: references, and then via the clipboard I found the associated filename in alpine and the "src=" reference in vim where I replaced each one with the associated filename. Once I'd replaced all the cid: references with the filenames I did a "ZZ" in vim and then typed: "firefox part_2.1.2" at the command prompt which resulted in firefox displaying the message exactly as my sister thought I could see it... I have no idea how much interest there would be in such a patch, I do not have the coding skill to write it. But it seems to me that the hardest part would be to associate the values of the attachment Content-ID:'s with the attachment names so that something like sed could be used to replace all instances of "cid:${Content-ID}" in the freshly saved Text/HTML file with the associated filename... I mean, the code to save all parts of the message as separate files must already exist in the export message function. I do know that I'd like to see it happen. (I'd use it every time some family member sends me one of these.) But since I lack the skill to write such a thing, it's just wishful thinking. (unless of course some real programmer on this list likes the idea enough to play with it.) {sigh} -- | ~^~ ~^~ | <*> <*> Joe (theWordy) Philbrook | ^ J(tWdy)P | \___/ <> But if I actually knew everything, then I'd know I was an idiot... From peale at physics.ucsb.edu Wed Nov 16 18:56:13 2011 From: peale at physics.ucsb.edu (Stan Peale) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Re: firefox as called from alpine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have two problems with alpine. 1. When I forward a message, the links therein are not forwarded, so the recipient receives a sterile message. How do I do I get alpine to forward links. 2. When I click on a url that does not have an address displayed, I immediately get a message "Viewer application completed", and no firefox window appears. If a url address is given, I can paste it into a browser, but if not, I cannot view the link. How do I fix this? Stan Peale From chappa at gmx.com Wed Nov 16 19:09:19 2011 From: chappa at gmx.com (Eduardo Chappa) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Re: firefox as called from alpine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Nov 2011, Stan Peale wrote: :) 1. When I forward a message, the links therein are not forwarded, so :) the recipient receives a sterile message. How do I do I get alpine :) to forward links. You are probably reading a HTML message. Most mailers send the same message in two forms, one the html message and another non-html form. If you enable [X] Prefer Plain Text, then you will see the plain text form by default, which will include the links, otherwise, you can press "A" while reading the html message to display the plain text part. :) 2. When I click on a url that does not have an address displayed, I :) immediately get a message "Viewer application completed", and no :) firefox window appears. If a url address is given, I can paste it :) into a browser, but if not, I cannot view the link. How do I fix :) this? I would have to see a message to tell you why this happened, but one hunch could be that the url-viewers options is misconfigured. Mine is set to URL-viewers = "/usr/bin/firefox _URL_ &" -- Eduardo http://patches.freeiz.com/alpine/ From peale at physics.ucsb.edu Wed Nov 16 19:43:22 2011 From: peale at physics.ucsb.edu (Stan Peale) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] (no subject) Message-ID: Eduardo, Thanks for the quick reply. I had the [X] prefer plain text box checked, so I unchecked it to see what happens. My URL viewers stopped at "firefox". so I added the _URL_ & to see if that makes a difference. Stan Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 21:09:19 -0600 (CST) From: Eduardo Chappa To: Stan Peale Cc: alpine-info@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: [Alpine-info] Re: firefox as called from alpine On Wed, 16 Nov 2011, Stan Peale wrote: :) 1. When I forward a message, the links therein are not forwarded, so :) the recipient receives a sterile message. How do I do I get alpine :) to forward links. You are probably reading a HTML message. Most mailers send the same message in two forms, one the html message and another non-html form. If you enable [X] Prefer Plain Text, then you will see the plain text form by default, which will include the links, otherwise, you can press "A" while reading the html message to display the plain text part. :) 2. When I click on a url that does not have an address displayed, I :) immediately get a message "Viewer application completed", and no :) firefox window appears. If a url address is given, I can paste it :) into a browser, but if not, I cannot view the link. How do I fix :) this? I would have to see a message to tell you why this happened, but one hunch could be that the url-viewers options is misconfigured. Mine is set to URL-viewers = "/usr/bin/firefox _URL_ &" -- Eduardo From starl8gazer at yahoo.com Thu Nov 17 07:19:21 2011 From: starl8gazer at yahoo.com (Starl8gazer) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] (no subject) Message-ID: <1321543161.54110.YahooMailNeo@web36405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello,? A problem occurs when I try to bounce/ redirect an email in the following config.? I have the username "uid_local" on my laptop. In my new employer's network I have the username "uid_work". NB, "uid_local" and "uid_work" are different. To read and send email I am using Alpine 2.00 on a Linux OpenSuse 11.4 system. My ~/.pinerc has the following entry:? smtp-server=smtpsrv.[employer_domain]/user=uid_work/tls/NoValidate-Cert Sending resp. forwarding email works well. Yet when trying to _bounce_ a message, I get stuck with the following error message:? "Mail not sent: : Sender address rejected: User unknown in local recipient table"? Why does Alpine use uid_local instead of uid_work as specified in the above smtp-server line? How can I get bounce to work? In your reply please be specific as I am usually a top-level user of Linux, although I do have admin access on my laptop.? Thanks, Starl8gazer From peale at physics.ucsb.edu Thu Nov 17 08:08:07 2011 From: peale at physics.ucsb.edu (Stan Peale) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] New Patches for *pine page In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Eduardo, By making the changes you suggested, unchecking the "prefer plain text' box and adding the _URL_ & to /usr/local/bin/firefox _URL_&, Alpine now reads clicked links even when a firefox window is already up, and I can write in the firefox window so displayed as the firefox application is actually running. Whether or not links are forwarded along with an email is currently under test. Thanks much for your help. Best, Stan P.S. What does the addition of _URL_ & do after the path to firefox is designated? From peale at physics.ucsb.edu Thu Nov 17 08:12:49 2011 From: peale at physics.ucsb.edu (Stan Peale) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] New Patches for *pine page In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Eduardo, Test on the forwarding of links included in forwarded emails is complete. It failed. There were no links in the email I forwarded to my son. Any ideas on how to fix this? Best, Stan From alpine at benizi.com Thu Nov 17 09:11:09 2011 From: alpine at benizi.com (Benjamin R. Haskell) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] New Patches for *pine page In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 17 Nov 2011, Stan Peale wrote: > P.S. What does the addition of _URL_ & do after the path to firefox is > designated? The '_URL_' portion passes the URL to Firefox. Using a link to http://www.cnn.com/ for example, without _URL_, the command that gets run is: firefox (which has no idea that you wanted to go to cnn.com) With it, the command that gets run is: firefox http://www.cnn.com/ The '&' tells the shell to run the command in the background. So, when you follow the link, it sends the URL off to Firefox, but doesn't wait for Firefox to shut down (which would freeze Alpine in the interim). Technically, I don't think it's necessary for `firefox` (I think it's a non-blocking script anyway), but it doesn't hurt anything to be sure. -- Best, Ben From peale at physics.ucsb.edu Thu Nov 17 10:01:12 2011 From: peale at physics.ucsb.edu (Stan Peale) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] New Patches for *pine page In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ben, Thanks for the information. I would have assumed that Alpine was simply sending the url to firefox when it was clicked, i.e inserting it into the input line. It obviously does not do that, since it did not work. With the _URL_, Alpine retrieval of the link in firefox seems to work perfectly without the problems I have encountered in the past. Now if I can get Alpine to forward links contained in forwarded emails.... Best, Stan On Thu, 17 Nov 2011, Benjamin R. Haskell wrote: > On Thu, 17 Nov 2011, Stan Peale wrote: > >> P.S. What does the addition of _URL_ & do after the path to firefox is >> designated? > > The '_URL_' portion passes the URL to Firefox. > > Using a link to http://www.cnn.com/ for example, without _URL_, the command > that gets run is: > > firefox > (which has no idea that you wanted to go to cnn.com) > > With it, the command that gets run is: > > firefox http://www.cnn.com/ > > The '&' tells the shell to run the command in the background. So, when you > follow the link, it sends the URL off to Firefox, but doesn't wait for Firefox > to shut down (which would freeze Alpine in the interim). Technically, I don't > think it's necessary for `firefox` (I think it's a non-blocking script > anyway), but it doesn't hurt anything to be sure. > > -- > Best, > Ben > From alpine at benizi.com Thu Nov 17 10:12:42 2011 From: alpine at benizi.com (Benjamin R. Haskell) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] New Patches for *pine page In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 17 Nov 2011, Stan Peale wrote: > Ben, > Thanks for the information. I would have assumed that Alpine was > simply sending the url to firefox when it was clicked, i.e inserting > it into the input line. It obviously does not do that, since it did > not work. Actually, I seem to have overstated its importance. Here, I can use just 'firefox' as the URL viewer, and it does, indeed, append the URL. The _URL_ token is only necessary with '&' to ensure that the command is: firefox http://www.cnn.com/ & rather than: firefox & http://www.cnn.com/ Maybe the '&' is necessary w/ your version of the `firefox` script. -- Best, Ben From romkra at gmx.net Thu Nov 17 10:59:12 2011 From: romkra at gmx.net (romkra@gmx.net) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] display of html content In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: A late comment on using Thunderbird and alpine on the same mail folder: Mike Miller wrote on 2011-11-12: > I've been annoyed by Thunderbird's behavior -- every time I > fire it up it creates one .msf file for every mail folder > (a.k.a. mbox file) in my ~/mail directory. Another possibility to deal with it is to start alpine with a wrapper script with the content find -L -name \*.msf -exec /bin/rm -f {} + /usr/bin/alpine So automaticall deleting Thunderbirds *.msf files when starting alpine. One might have to care a little bit in case one is working with both mailprograms simultaneously. Roman From starl8gazer at yahoo.com Fri Nov 18 00:17:58 2011 From: starl8gazer at yahoo.com (Starl8gazer) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Alpine Bounce uses wrong username Message-ID: <1321604278.1106.YahooMailNeo@web36401.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello, [ I apologize if you receive this twice, in my original post I forgot the subject line - there is little hope to get help like that :-/ ] A problem occurs when I try to bounce/ redirect an email in the following config.? I have the username "uid_local" on my laptop. In my new employer's network I have the username "uid_work". NB, "uid_local" and "uid_work" are different. To read and send email I am using Alpine 2.00 on a Linux OpenSuse 11.4 system. My ~/.pinerc has the following entry:? smtp-server=smtpsrv.employer_domain/user=uid_work/tls/NoValidate-Cert Sending resp. forwarding email works well. Yet when trying to _bounce_ a message, I get stuck with the following error message:? "Mail not sent: : Sender address rejected: User unknown in local recipient table"? Why does Alpine use uid_local instead of uid_work as specified in the above smtp-server line? How can I get bounce to work? In your reply please be specific as I am usually a top-level user of Linux, although I do have admin access on my laptop.? Thanks, Starl8gazer From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Fri Nov 18 00:53:19 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Re: display of html content In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Nov 2011, Joe(theWordy)Philbrook wrote: > It would appear that on Nov 10, Mike Miller did say: > >> The place where Alpine seems to fail is when the embedded graphics are >> attachments to the message. I don't see any easy way to view such >> messages in a browser. That's why I recommend switching to a different >> mailer for those occasional messages. >> >> No one has come up with another strategy for viewing those messages. > > > Well I'm not so sure I understand why this is so. I'm neither a > programmer nor an expert in the nuts n bolts of the email standards. But > I have a minimalistic understanding of some rather basic HTML, and I > just spent some time playing with just such an HTML email with attached > images my sister forwarded to me this Halloween. It had a jpeg image > involving clothing stuffed with pumpkins in such a way as to appear to > be mooning the viewer. Another with a big distorted smileyface saying > "Nana - Nana - Nana" and a tiny animated gif cartoon character that > repetitively moons the viewer... > > I don't know if all HTML mail that include images as attachments, > identify the image "src" in the HTML as "cid:${Content-ID}" (Where > Content-ID matches the the Content-ID: of the appropriate attachment. > But if so, how hard would it be to have an option when saving Text/HTML > attachments to file (similar to the export message: "^P" option that > will include all parts) that would in this case, modify the saved HTML > by replacing the "cid:" references with the associated filenames of the > other attachments that would be saved with the Text/HTML one?? > > I simulated this by exporting the message (with all parts) to an empty > directory, then using vim to edit the Text/HTML "part_2.1.2" in another > window while I examined the original message in header mode using the > WhereIs function to find the cid: references, and then via the clipboard > I found the associated filename in alpine and the "src=" reference in > vim where I replaced each one with the associated filename. Once I'd > replaced all the cid: references with the filenames I did a "ZZ" in vim > and then typed: "firefox part_2.1.2" at the command prompt which > resulted in firefox displaying the message exactly as my sister thought > I could see it... > > I have no idea how much interest there would be in such a patch, I do > not have the coding skill to write it. But it seems to me that the > hardest part would be to associate the values of the attachment > Content-ID:'s with the attachment names so that something like sed could > be used to replace all instances of "cid:${Content-ID}" in the freshly > saved Text/HTML file with the associated filename... I mean, the code to > save all parts of the message as separate files must already exist in > the export message function. > > I do know that I'd like to see it happen. (I'd use it every time some > family member sends me one of these.) But since I lack the skill to > write such a thing, it's just wishful thinking. (unless of course some > real programmer on this list likes the idea enough to play with it.) Nice work, Joe. It got me thinking about how MHonArc could be used for this purpose. I made a directory called ~/html and then piped the raw text of one of those attached-image HTML messages into this command (uncaptured output): mhonarc -outdir html -- - That did it. It produced an html file and attachment files so that it looked right in a web browser. It's also possible to save more messages later to the same collection by using the -add option: mhonarc -add -outdir html -- - I think I might do it with these additional options: mhonarc -add -nothread -reverse -outdir html -- - -nothread doesn't bother to create the thread index -reverse puts the newest messages on top of the message index There are a few other choices to consider. Anyway, I like that approach. It would be neater if we could do it without having to call pipe and type the command. I can write a script, but it would be best to have an option to evoke the script even more automatically. More on this later. Mike From pierre.frenkiel at gmail.com Fri Nov 18 01:39:17 2011 From: pierre.frenkiel at gmail.com (Pierre Frenkiel) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Re: display of html content In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Nov 2011, Mike Miller wrote: > . I made a directory called ~/html and then piped the raw text of one > of those attached-image HTML messages into this command (uncaptured output): > > mhonarc -outdir html -- - hi Mike, I tried mhonarc, and it almost did the expected job, but not all: When I call firefox, the images don't display automatically. I have to click on the links to display them. Looking at the html code, I found that all were missing. After adding them, the images are displayed immediatly. I didn't find any option to fix that. PS: I would suggest not to quote all the message when replying... as this is generally considered as "good manners", and recommended by the netetiquette. cheers, -- Pierre Frenkiel From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Fri Nov 18 09:40:19 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Re: display of html content In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Nov 2011, Pierre Frenkiel wrote: > On Fri, 18 Nov 2011, Mike Miller wrote: > >> I made a directory called ~/html and then piped the raw text of one of >> those attached-image HTML messages into this command (uncaptured >> output): >> >> mhonarc -outdir html -- - > > hi Mike, > I tried mhonarc, and it almost did the expected job, but not all: > When I call firefox, the images don't display automatically. I have to > click on the links to display them. I would be interested to know what you did differently from me. For me the images display. > Looking at the html code, I found that all were missing. > After adding them, the images are displayed immediatly. > I didn't find any option to fix that. My guess is that you did not use "^W Raw Text" -- you hit ^W if it says "Raw Text" and you are set to go if it reads "^W Show Text". If you don't have that setting right, it will not pipe the attachments into the stdout and mhonarc won't see them. > PS: I would suggest not to quote all the message when replying... > as this is generally considered as "good manners", and recommended > by the netetiquette. I know what you mean. I quoted the whole text of the message because all of it was relevant. Believe me, it was almost painful to do that but I didn't see an easy way to cut it. It was a good message. Look at my previous messages, there are hundreds, and you will see that I always trim them. Mike From dougb at FreeBSD.org Fri Nov 18 10:38:10 2011 From: dougb at FreeBSD.org (Doug Barton) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] display of html content In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4EC6A612.1090301@FreeBSD.org> On 11/17/2011 10:59, romkra@gmx.net wrote: > A late comment on using Thunderbird and alpine on the same mail folder: > > Mike Miller wrote on 2011-11-12: > >> I've been annoyed by Thunderbird's behavior -- every time I fire it up >> it creates one .msf file for every mail folder (a.k.a. mbox file) in >> my ~/mail directory. That's normal behavior. It's part of how thunderbird works. > Another possibility to deal with it is to start alpine with a wrapper > script with the content > > find -L -name \*.msf -exec /bin/rm -f {} + > /usr/bin/alpine That's a really bad idea, and is going to cause thunderbird to spend time recreating them every time it starts. -- "We could put the whole Internet into a book." "Too practical." Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DNS. Yours for the right price. :) http://SupersetSolutions.com/ From pierre.frenkiel at gmail.com Fri Nov 18 10:39:59 2011 From: pierre.frenkiel at gmail.com (Pierre Frenkiel) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Re: display of html content In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Nov 2011, Mike Miller wrote: > I would be interested to know what you did differently from me. I directly piped the file into mhtoarc cat file | mhonarc -outdir html -- - > My guess is that you did not use "^W Raw Text" You are right, but if I do that in pine (hitting | and then ^W) I get exactly the same result. (of course, enable-full-header-and-text and enable-unix-pipe-cmd are set) My guess is that the html in the mail I'm using is badly configured. Can you forward me a mail with which I could do another test? > I know what you mean. I quoted the whole text of the message because all of > it was relevant. It was, indeed, but all of us already received it, and can re-read it easily. Quoting is only useful when you want to reply to a specific part of the mail. cheers, -- Pierre Frenkiel From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Fri Nov 18 14:11:57 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] display of html content In-Reply-To: <4EC6A612.1090301@FreeBSD.org> References: <4EC6A612.1090301@FreeBSD.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Nov 2011, Doug Barton wrote: > On 11/17/2011 10:59, romkra@gmx.net wrote: > >> A late comment on using Thunderbird and alpine on the same mail folder: >> >> Mike Miller wrote on 2011-11-12: >> >>> I've been annoyed by Thunderbird's behavior -- every time I fire it up >>> it creates one .msf file for every mail folder (a.k.a. mbox file) in >>> my ~/mail directory. > > That's normal behavior. It's part of how thunderbird works. Yes, it's "normal" for Thunderbird to annoy me with a bunch of unwanted files. A better Thunderbird would have a different kind of normal behavior where it spewed it's annoying files into a subdirectory, possible one called .thunderbird. >> Another possibility to deal with it is to start alpine with a wrapper >> script with the content >> >> find -L -name \*.msf -exec /bin/rm -f {} + >> /usr/bin/alpine > > That's a really bad idea, and is going to cause thunderbird to spend > time recreating them every time it starts. That's true. Also, the system I was describing was one in which Thunderbird would be launched while Alpine was running. So deleting the files at Alpine startup would not prevent Alpine from having to deal with those files. To avoid all of these problems, I made a separate mail directory with symlinks to my Alpine mail files, and I told Thunderbird to go to that other directory and spew out its .msf files there. It's working for me. Mike From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Fri Nov 18 14:17:53 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] display of html content In-Reply-To: <4EC6A612.1090301@FreeBSD.org> References: <4EC6A612.1090301@FreeBSD.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Nov 2011, Doug Barton wrote: >> Another possibility to deal with it is to start alpine with a wrapper >> script with the content >> >> find -L -name \*.msf -exec /bin/rm -f {} + >> /usr/bin/alpine > > That's a really bad idea, and is going to cause thunderbird to spend > time recreating them every time it starts. Here's a question about that -- I should have thought of it before I sent the last message: Doesn't Thunderbird have to recreate the .msf files anyway? I see that there is one .msf file per mail file and the .msf file seems to have information about the contents of the mail file. If I am changing the mail files in Alpine, or because new messages are entering the system, doesn't Thunderbird have to update the .msf files? And doesn't that mean recreating them from scratch? It probably uses date stamps to decide if an update is needed. Mike From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Fri Nov 18 14:32:17 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Re: display of html content In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Nov 2011, Pierre Frenkiel wrote: > On Fri, 18 Nov 2011, Mike Miller wrote: > >> I would be interested to know what you did differently from me. > > I directly piped the file into mhtoarc > cat file | mhonarc -outdir html -- - > >> My guess is that you did not use "^W Raw Text" > > You are right, but if I do that in pine (hitting | and then ^W) I get > exactly the same result. I think Alpine is doing exactly the same thing as cat file, assuming that file is a single message. This should also do the same thing: mhonarc -outdir html file I'm assuming that the directory "html" exists. > (of course, enable-full-header-and-text and enable-unix-pipe-cmd are > set) My guess is that the html in the mail I'm using is badly > configured. Can you forward me a mail with which I could do another > test? Yes. I'll send the albino moose message as a mime attachment. Can you also send your possibly-badly-configured message to me as a mime attachment? If not, I hope you will tell us what you found in the HTML that might have caused the problem. The MHonArc developers might also be interested. Mike From pierre.frenkiel at gmail.com Sat Nov 19 00:25:47 2011 From: pierre.frenkiel at gmail.com (Pierre Frenkiel) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Re: display of html content In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Nov 2011, Mike Miller wrote: > I'll send the albino moose message as a mime attachment. it works fine with this one (wonderful pictures!) to make it easier, I use the following mhffx script #!/bin/bash cd rm -f html/* mhonarc -outdir=html -- - firefox ~/html/msg00000.html so you launch the browser directly from pine, just piping to "mhffx" > Can you also send your possibly-badly-configured message to me as a mime > attachment? If not, I hope you will tell us what you found in the HTML that > might have caused the problem. The MHonArc developers might also be > interested. I'll try to investigate and tell you what I found. cheers, -- Pierre Frenkiel From alpine at nephros.org Sat Nov 19 00:47:07 2011 From: alpine at nephros.org (Peter G.) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] display of html content In-Reply-To: References: <4EC6A612.1090301@FreeBSD.org> Message-ID: XIV Kal. Dec. MMXI AUC quidam/qu?dam/quoddam 'Mike Miller' inquit: > On Fri, 18 Nov 2011, Doug Barton wrote: > >> On 11/17/2011 10:59, romkra@gmx.net wrote: >> >>> A late comment on using Thunderbird and alpine on the same mail folder: >>> >>> Mike Miller wrote on 2011-11-12: >>> >>>> I've been annoyed by Thunderbird's behavior -- every time I fire it up it >>>> creates one .msf file for every mail folder (a.k.a. mbox file) in my >>>> ~/mail directory. >> >> That's normal behavior. It's part of how thunderbird works. > > Yes, it's "normal" for Thunderbird to annoy me with a bunch of unwanted > files. A better Thunderbird would have a different kind of normal behavior > where it spewed it's annoying files into a subdirectory, possible one called > .thunderbird. Sorry if that has already been suggested, I didn't read the whole thread, but the easiest way for me to use *pine and Thunderbird in parallel is to let TB connect via IMAP. It's really easy to install uw-imap and let it listen on localhost:imap TB will then do most of its house-holding in its own profile. (The same goes for other potential accessors of mail, like KDEs akonadi etc.) *pine can then connect via IMAP as well, or just continue to use local file access. (There *might* be issues wrt locking and concurrent access there but I haven't experienced any so far.) Just some cents, Peter G. -- "I do not think the way you think I think." -- Kai, last of the Brunnen G From unrtst at gmail.com Sat Nov 19 03:31:48 2011 From: unrtst at gmail.com (Joshua Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] display of html content In-Reply-To: References: <4EC6A612.1090301@FreeBSD.org> Message-ID: On Sat, Nov 19, 2011 at 3:47 AM, Peter G. wrote: > Sorry if that has already been suggested, I didn't read the whole thread, > but the easiest way for me to use *pine and Thunderbird in parallel is to > let TB connect via IMAP. > > It's really easy to install uw-imap and let it listen on localhost:imap > > TB will then do most of its house-holding in its own profile. (The same > goes for other potential accessors of mail, like KDEs akonadi etc.) > > *pine can then connect via IMAP as well, or just continue to use local > file access. (There *might* be issues wrt locking and concurrent access > there but I haven't experienced any so far.) > > On the note of locking and concurrent access when using IMAP, alpine, and thunderbird, I have seen an issue, though it's minor. I'm fairly certain it's thunderbird's fault. I have the following filter setup: patterns-filters2=LIT:pattern="/NICK=inaddressbook/COMM=flag these as from a person\\n/FLDTYPE=SPEC/FOLDER=INBOX/AFROM=SYES/ABOOKS=.addressbook/STATR=YES" action="/FILTER=2/NOKILL=1/KEYSET=AddressBook" Any new messages coming into my inbox whose from address is in my local .addressbook get a custom keyword set via alpine. If I'm running thunderbird at the same time, then that doesn't happen for some reason. If anyone knows why or how to fix that, I'd love to know, cause it really annoys me. My work-around has just been to only run thunderbird when I need to use it, and put up with the filter not working while doing so. *Maybe* it's something to do with the message status stuff? Like TB gets the message first and changes the SEEN flag, so alpine doesn't trigger? I'm kinda hoping that's the case, cause then I might be able to fix it in alpine. My gut feeling is that TB's header caching is too aggressive and ends up overwriting the alpine changes from the filter, but I haven't put the time in to confirm any of this. FWIW, I'm using dovecot, mail on a local FS (not nfs), with the following locking: mbox_read_locks = fcntl mbox_write_locks = dotlock fcntl Thanks, -- Josh I. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Sat Nov 19 09:40:41 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Re: display of html content In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, 19 Nov 2011, Pierre Frenkiel wrote: > On Fri, 18 Nov 2011, Mike Miller wrote: > >> I'll send the albino moose message as a mime attachment. > it works fine with this one (wonderful pictures!) > to make it easier, I use the following mhffx script > > #!/bin/bash > cd > rm -f html/* > mhonarc -outdir=html -- - > firefox ~/html/msg00000.html > > so you launch the browser directly from pine, just piping to "mhffx" I suppose that works, but why not drop the cd command and do this?: #!/bin/bash rm -f ~/html/* mhonarc -outdir=~/html -- - firefox ~/html/msg00000.html Apparently mhonarc accepts the equal sign, if your script worked, but that is not a documented feature. Also, your rm command does not delete filenames beginning with a period, like the .mhonarc.db, but I guess that gets overwritten when you run the mhonarc command, and it's probably the only file that will ever begin with a period, so that's probably OK. I'll be doing something a little more elaborate, but I think your method is probably the best way to go for people who just want to look at the message, but not save it, and who have created the ~/html directory. One little thing -- I would have used --new-window with firefox and put an ampersand at the end of the line so that it would run in background: firefox --new-window ~/html/msg00000.html & When I do my thing, probably soon, I'll be using a MHonArc resource file to control some of the features, but I'll also be focusing on a strategy for storing messages in an archive. I store attachments separately from the messages, but that doesn't really work for me when the HTML message uses attached images. If you only want to view the HTML with images, and not store it, then I think it would be better to use mktemp to create a temporary directory in /tmp that is deleted when you are done. >> Can you also send your possibly-badly-configured message to me as a >> mime attachment? If not, I hope you will tell us what you found in the >> HTML that might have caused the problem. The MHonArc developers might >> also be interested. > > I'll try to investigate and tell you what I found. Thanks. Have you tried to look at it in Thunderbird? Mike From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Sat Nov 19 09:51:13 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] display of html content In-Reply-To: References: <4EC6A612.1090301@FreeBSD.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 19 Nov 2011, Peter G. wrote: > Sorry if that has already been suggested, I didn't read the whole > thread, but the easiest way for me to use *pine and Thunderbird in > parallel is to let TB connect via IMAP. > > It's really easy to install uw-imap and let it listen on localhost:imap Thanks. No, we had not discussed this option. I haven't run imap on my machine, partly because I thought it might be hard to set it up, but it sounds like maybe it's pretty easy, so I'm going to try it. Hmmm.. It looks like Ubuntu Synaptic has uw-imapd, but I'm still using an old Ubuntu version and it isn't allowing me to install it right now. I have a new computer coming very soon, so I'll return to this in a few days. Thanks for the tip. Mike From alpine at benizi.com Sat Nov 19 11:27:18 2011 From: alpine at benizi.com (Benjamin R. Haskell) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] display of html content In-Reply-To: References: <4EC6A612.1090301@FreeBSD.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 19 Nov 2011, Peter G. wrote: > XIV Kal. Dec. MMXI AUC quidam/qu?dam/quoddam 'Mike Miller' inquit: > >> On Fri, 18 Nov 2011, Doug Barton wrote: >> >>> On 11/17/2011 10:59, romkra@gmx.net wrote: >>> >>>> A late comment on using Thunderbird and alpine on the same mail >>>> folder: >>>> >>>> Mike Miller wrote on 2011-11-12: >>>> >>>>> I've been annoyed by Thunderbird's behavior -- every time I fire >>>>> it up it creates one .msf file for every mail folder (a.k.a. mbox >>>>> file) in my ~/mail directory. >>> >>> That's normal behavior. It's part of how thunderbird works. >> >> Yes, it's "normal" for Thunderbird to annoy me with a bunch of >> unwanted files. A better Thunderbird would have a different kind of >> normal behavior where it spewed it's annoying files into a >> subdirectory, possible one called .thunderbird. Thunderbird doesn't expect that you'll be using its local folders with other programs. > Sorry if that has already been suggested, I didn't read the whole > thread, but the easiest way for me to use *pine and Thunderbird in > parallel is to let TB connect via IMAP. > > It's really easy to install uw-imap and let it listen on > localhost:imap I was about to respond w/ the same suggestion, except to suggest Dovecot instead of uw-imap (personal preference). Using both Alpine and Thunderbird against the same set of local files is bound to lead to issues. Depending on what version of Thunderbird you're using, its mbox-like file format (mboxrd?) isn't the same as what Alpine uses by default (mbox). (Rules for 'From ' quoting differ. Thunderbird 3.1.11 on Linux seems to use straight mbox, not mboxrd.) ?: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/jonathan.deboynepollard/FGA/mail-mbox-formats.html#mboxrd > TB will then do most of its house-holding in its own profile. (The > same goes for other potential accessors of mail, like KDEs akonadi > etc.) > > *pine can then connect via IMAP as well, or just continue to use local > file access. (There *might* be issues wrt locking and concurrent > access there but I haven't experienced any so far.) I would also expect locking issues. Thunderbird (3.1.11 on Linux) doesn't appear to do any locking at all when using 'Mail/Local Folders' (based on `strace -e trace=open,fcntl,flock thunderbird`). -- Best, Ben From mbeis at xs4all.nl Sat Nov 19 16:31:17 2011 From: mbeis at xs4all.nl (Marco Beishuizen) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Printing emails with UTF-8 Message-ID: Hi, In FreeBSD I have configured xterm with UTF-8, and Alpine displays all characters nicely. But when an email is printed (a Dell 5210n/PS), the characters with accents are not printed correctly. Is this something that can be adjusted in Alpine or is this a printer problem? Has anyone an idea how to fix this? Thanks in advance, Marco -- No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality; even larks and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream. Hill House, not sane, stood by itself against its hills, holding darkness within; it had stood so for eighty years and might stand for eighty more. Within, walls continued upright, bricks met neatly, floors were firm, and doors were sensibly shut; silence lay steadily against the wood and stone of Hill House, and whatever walked there, walked alone. -- Shirley Jackson, "The Haunting of Hill House" From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Sat Nov 19 20:21:47 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Printing emails with UTF-8 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 20 Nov 2011, Marco Beishuizen wrote: > In FreeBSD I have configured xterm with UTF-8, and Alpine displays all > characters nicely. But when an email is printed (a Dell 5210n/PS), the > characters with accents are not printed correctly. > > Is this something that can be adjusted in Alpine or is this a printer > problem? Has anyone an idea how to fix this? What are you using to print? There are some settings in your .pinerc (that should be configured from within Alpine): # Your default printer selection printer=muttprint [] /usr/bin/muttprint # List of special print commands personal-print-command=muttprint [] /usr/bin/muttprint # Which category default print command is in personal-print-category=3 I don't know much about this (I probably won't be able to fix it), but that might be a good start to addressing your problems. Mike From danm at prime.gushi.org Sat Nov 19 22:06:36 2011 From: danm at prime.gushi.org (Dan Mahoney, System Admin) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Printing emails with UTF-8 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, 19 Nov 2011, Mike Miller wrote: > On Sun, 20 Nov 2011, Marco Beishuizen wrote: > >> In FreeBSD I have configured xterm with UTF-8, and Alpine displays all >> characters nicely. But when an email is printed (a Dell 5210n/PS), the >> characters with accents are not printed correctly. >> >> Is this something that can be adjusted in Alpine or is this a printer >> problem? Has anyone an idea how to fix this? > > > What are you using to print? There are some settings in your .pinerc (that > should be configured from within Alpine): > > # Your default printer selection > printer=muttprint [] /usr/bin/muttprint > > # List of special print commands > personal-print-command=muttprint [] /usr/bin/muttprint > > # Which category default print command is in > personal-print-category=3 > > > I don't know much about this (I probably won't be able to fix it), but that > might be a good start to addressing your problems. Well, there's two different things Marco could be trying to do here. The first, (and I assume you want this because you mention xterm) is to have your accented, UTF-8 characters print on a machine configured on your local machine, i.e. the one where your keyboard is, using some sort of attached-to-ansi. For this, it is entirely within the printer driver on your local system, alpine simply sends a "printer on" command, and the email, then a "printer off" command. (Under screen, things are more complicated and ugly, ask me about that if you run screen). The second, is to print to a printer configured on the *server* where alpine is running, where alpine sends off to an lpd/cups queue. I've played with this a bit, but haven't managed to get it running perfectly yet. For doing accented characters like German, I've had some success, but have had zero luck so far, printing out (say) japanese emails. I've been told that the correct solution is to pipe the email through "pango" but haven't had that work yet. Which of the two items above are you trying to do? -Dan Mahoney -- --------Dan Mahoney-------- Techie, Sysadmin, WebGeek Gushi on efnet/undernet IRC ICQ: 13735144 AIM: LarpGM Site: http://www.gushi.org --------------------------- From mbeis at xs4all.nl Sun Nov 20 03:57:43 2011 From: mbeis at xs4all.nl (Marco Beishuizen) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Printing emails with UTF-8 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 20 Nov 2011, the wise Mike Miller wrote: > What are you using to print? There are some settings in your .pinerc > (that should be configured from within Alpine): > > # Your default printer selection printer=muttprint [] /usr/bin/muttprint > > # List of special print commands personal-print-command=muttprint [] > /usr/bin/muttprint > > # Which category default print command is in personal-print-category=3 > > > I don't know much about this (I probably won't be able to fix it), but > that might be a good start to addressing your problems. I use standard lpd/lpr for printing. In Alpine printing itself is working fine, except for the fact that the UTF-8 characters displayed in plain text are not printed as UTF-8. Characters with accents are not printed. Regards, Marco -- I want to buy a husband who, every week when I sit down to watch "St. Elsewhere", won't scream, "FORGET IT, BLANCHE ... IT'S TIME FOR 'HEE HAW'!!" -- Berke Breathed, "Bloom County" From mbeis at xs4all.nl Sun Nov 20 04:33:19 2011 From: mbeis at xs4all.nl (Marco Beishuizen) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Printing emails with UTF-8 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 20 Nov 2011, the wise Dan Mahoney, System Admin wrote: > Well, there's two different things Marco could be trying to do here. > > The first, (and I assume you want this because you mention xterm) is to > have your accented, UTF-8 characters print on a machine configured on > your local machine, i.e. the one where your keyboard is, using some sort > of attached-to-ansi. For this, it is entirely within the printer driver > on your local system, alpine simply sends a "printer on" command, and > the email, then a "printer off" command. (Under screen, things are more > complicated and ugly, ask me about that if you run screen). > > The second, is to print to a printer configured on the *server* where > alpine is running, where alpine sends off to an lpd/cups queue. I've > played with this a bit, but haven't managed to get it running perfectly > yet. For doing accented characters like German, I've had some success, > but have had zero luck so far, printing out (say) japanese emails. > I've been told that the correct solution is to pipe the email through > "pango" but haven't had that work yet. > > Which of the two items above are you trying to do? A bit of both actually :). The printer is a Dell 5201n attached to my home network. On this network are my main computer (FreeBSD), two laptops (Windows) and the printer. So the FreeBSD computer with Alpine running has a server with lpd queue, but I'm the only one using it. I discovered that Alpine isn't the only one with this problem, this happens with all prints send as plain text. Now I suspect it has something to do with filters in the /etc/printcap file, but I'm no expert in this area. Marco -- You can't erase a dream, you can only wake me up. -- Peter Frampton From jtwdyp at ttlc.net Sun Nov 20 10:03:57 2011 From: jtwdyp at ttlc.net (Joe(theWordy)Philbrook) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Re: display of html content In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It would appear that on Nov 18, Mike Miller did say: > Nice work, Joe. It got me thinking about how MHonArc could be used for this > purpose. I made a directory called ~/html and then piped the raw text of one > of those attached-image HTML messages into this command (uncaptured output): > > mhonarc -outdir html -- - > > That did it. It produced an html file and attachment files so that it looked > right in a web browser. Thanks for thinking of mhonarc Mike. I'd never heard of it before so if you hadn't I wouldn't have thought to try it for this. It is perhaps a bit overkill when it's only reason to be on my computer is to view the occasional message where alpine's rendering isn't what I want. I'm certainly not going to build an html archive with it as _IF_ I decide to keep the message it will be the original in my alpine/procmail managed local mail folders. But since 4 out of 5 of my installed Linux distros had some version of it in their repos, and none of them are yet hurting for inodes, it was nearly painless to install. And yes it works well on most anything I've got with images in it. For the heck of it I fed it a message with three photos some family member sent me from her cell phone. And that also displayed cleanly. And it works great on html mail with images, regardless of whether they are attached or merely linked to via the web. It would appear that on Nov 19, Pierre Frenkiel did say: > to make it easier, I use the following mhffx script > > #!/bin/bash > cd > rm -f html/* > mhonarc -outdir=html -- - > firefox ~/html/msg00000.html > > so you launch the browser directly from pine, just piping to "mhffx" And I very much like your idea Pierre. Though I did modify it a bit. I call mine htmV (hypertextmailViewer) {It's easier for me to remember.} :r ~/bin2nd/htmV #!/bin/bash rm -r ~/mail/htmlDumpDir/htmV.tmp mkdir ~/mail/htmlDumpDir/htmV.tmp mhonarc -nothread -outdir ~/mail/htmlDumpDir/htmV.tmp -- - firefox --new-window ~/mail/htmlDumpDir/htmV.tmp/msg00000.html & Works for me. Now I no longer care if I ever find a readily available gui email program that will display piped messages without automatically assuming it's going to manage all my mail. -- | --- ___ | <0> <-> Joe (theWordy) Philbrook | ^ J(tWdy)P | ~\___/~ <> From pierre.frenkiel at gmail.com Sun Nov 20 03:41:01 2011 From: pierre.frenkiel at gmail.com (Pierre Frenkiel) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_=5BAlpine-info=5D_Re=3A_display_of_html_content=C3=97?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, 19 Nov 2011, Mike Miller wrote: > Apparently mhonarc accepts the equal sign, if your script worked, but that is > not a documented feature. a few programs use this syntax, but here it was just a mistake...which actually works. > . Also, your rm command does not delete filenames > beginning with a period, ... it would be enough to just remove the .jpg files, as all others have fixed names and are overwritten, but rm * does no harm. > I'll be doing something a little more elaborate, but I think your method is > probably the best way to go for people who just want to look at the message, > but not save it, and who have created the ~/html directory. Why not just save the message from pine, either in an existing folder or a new one, as the headers don't take too much space? Otherwise, it is easy to save the html and the images in a tar file, for example with this version of my script, which can be run from pine with or without a file name. #!/bin/bash rm -f ~/html/* mhonarc -outdir ~/html -- - if [[ -n $1 ]]; then F=~/$1.bz2 [[ -f $F ]] && F=~/$1-$$.bz2 cd ~/html tar jcf $F * fi firefox ~/html/msg00000.html & > > One little thing -- I would have used --new-window with firefox and put an > ampersand at the end of the line so that it would run in background: this is useless, if you set the firefox option "open new windows in a news tab instead" firefox is generally already running on my computer, but if it not the case, it's better to put the ampersand. > If you only want to view the HTML with images, and not store it, then I think > it would be better to use mktemp to create a temporary directory in /tmp that > is deleted when you are done. Why? it's easy to tidy the html directory via cron Personnally, as I call alpine from a script, I do that with a trap command in this script. > Thanks. Have you tried to look at it in Thunderbird? it's OK with thunderbird, and also with k-9-mail on my smartphone. cheers, -- Pierre Frenkiel From dougb at FreeBSD.org Sun Nov 20 18:14:28 2011 From: dougb at FreeBSD.org (Doug Barton) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Printing emails with UTF-8 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4EC9B404.8050705@FreeBSD.org> On 11/20/2011 03:57, Marco Beishuizen wrote: > I use standard lpd/lpr for printing. In Alpine printing itself is > working fine, except for the fact that the UTF-8 characters displayed in > plain text are not printed as UTF-8. UTF-8 is not plain text. You should probably set up CUPS. -- "We could put the whole Internet into a book." "Too practical." Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DNS. Yours for the right price. :) http://SupersetSolutions.com/ From dougb at FreeBSD.org Sun Nov 20 18:25:27 2011 From: dougb at FreeBSD.org (Doug Barton) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] display of html content In-Reply-To: References: <4EC6A612.1090301@FreeBSD.org> Message-ID: <4EC9B697.6090104@FreeBSD.org> On 11/19/2011 03:31, Joshua Miller wrote: > On the note of locking and concurrent access when using IMAP, alpine, > and thunderbird, I have seen an issue, though it's minor. I'm fairly > certain it's thunderbird's fault. PEBKAC. Opening the same inbox with 2 different IMAP clients at the same time is pretty much undefined behavior. You may be able to improve the situation by setting thunderbird to never poll. Doug -- "We could put the whole Internet into a book." "Too practical." Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DNS. Yours for the right price. :) http://SupersetSolutions.com/ From mbeis at xs4all.nl Mon Nov 21 09:04:55 2011 From: mbeis at xs4all.nl (Marco Beishuizen) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Printing emails with UTF-8 In-Reply-To: <4EC9B404.8050705@FreeBSD.org> References: <4EC9B404.8050705@FreeBSD.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Nov 2011, the wise Doug Barton wrote: > UTF-8 is not plain text. You should probably set up CUPS. > So the email displayed in Alpine is not plain text? And I don't like CUPS so rather use lpd. Regards, Marco -- A man was reading The Canterbury Tales one Saturday morning, when his wife asked "What have you got there?" Replied he, "Just my cup and Chaucer." From dougb at FreeBSD.org Mon Nov 21 10:03:31 2011 From: dougb at FreeBSD.org (Doug Barton) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Printing emails with UTF-8 In-Reply-To: References: <4EC9B404.8050705@FreeBSD.org> Message-ID: <4ECA9273.3060509@FreeBSD.org> On 11/21/2011 09:04, Marco Beishuizen wrote: > On Mon, 21 Nov 2011, the wise Doug Barton wrote: > >> UTF-8 is not plain text. You should probably set up CUPS. >> > > So the email displayed in Alpine is not plain text? Not if you've set it up to use UTF-8, no. By definition "UTF-8" and "plain text" are different things. > And I don't like CUPS so rather use lpd. I wish you luck with that then. :) I have no idea if our lpd can handle UTF-8 to start with, and even if it can finding a filter for your printer to handle it will be a challenge. Most development on lpd has been stalled for years since CUPS is so pervasive. Doug -- "We could put the whole Internet into a book." "Too practical." Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DNS. Yours for the right price. :) http://SupersetSolutions.com/ From danm at prime.gushi.org Mon Nov 21 10:24:17 2011 From: danm at prime.gushi.org (Dan Mahoney, System Admin) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Printing emails with UTF-8 In-Reply-To: <4ECA9273.3060509@FreeBSD.org> References: <4EC9B404.8050705@FreeBSD.org> <4ECA9273.3060509@FreeBSD.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Nov 2011, Doug Barton wrote: > On 11/21/2011 09:04, Marco Beishuizen wrote: >> On Mon, 21 Nov 2011, the wise Doug Barton wrote: >> >>> UTF-8 is not plain text. You should probably set up CUPS. >>> >> >> So the email displayed in Alpine is not plain text? > > Not if you've set it up to use UTF-8, no. By definition "UTF-8" and > "plain text" are different things. > >> And I don't like CUPS so rather use lpd. > > I wish you luck with that then. :) I have no idea if our lpd can handle > UTF-8 to start with, and even if it can finding a filter for your > printer to handle it will be a challenge. Most development on lpd has > been stalled for years since CUPS is so pervasive. Well, either way, I think the correct answer is to render it into postscript, and then use whatever output filter your system would use, to render that .ps into something your printer understands. This thread may be of some use to you: http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/20456/pretty-print-mails-from-mutt I think MuttPrint might be your answer here. -Dan (Who still wants to find a fixed-width windows terminal font that supports the full UTF-8 character set, that doesn't show the \ as a "yen") -- --------Dan Mahoney-------- Techie, Sysadmin, WebGeek Gushi on efnet/undernet IRC ICQ: 13735144 AIM: LarpGM Site: http://www.gushi.org --------------------------- From dougb at FreeBSD.org Mon Nov 21 12:52:43 2011 From: dougb at FreeBSD.org (Doug Barton) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Printing emails with UTF-8 In-Reply-To: References: <4EC9B404.8050705@FreeBSD.org> <4ECA9273.3060509@FreeBSD.org> Message-ID: <4ECABA1B.5000104@FreeBSD.org> On 11/21/2011 10:24, Dan Mahoney, System Admin wrote: > Well, either way, I think the correct answer is to render it into postscript ... assuming that the printer can handle straight postscript. I hesitated to offer specific recommendations since it's probably off-topic for this list. Doug -- "We could put the whole Internet into a book." "Too practical." Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DNS. Yours for the right price. :) http://SupersetSolutions.com/ From mbeis at xs4all.nl Mon Nov 21 13:05:03 2011 From: mbeis at xs4all.nl (Marco Beishuizen) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Printing emails with UTF-8 In-Reply-To: <4ECABA1B.5000104@FreeBSD.org> References: <4EC9B404.8050705@FreeBSD.org> <4ECA9273.3060509@FreeBSD.org> <4ECABA1B.5000104@FreeBSD.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Nov 2011, the wise Doug Barton wrote: > On 11/21/2011 10:24, Dan Mahoney, System Admin wrote: >> Well, either way, I think the correct answer is to render it into postscript > > ... assuming that the printer can handle straight postscript. I > hesitated to offer specific recommendations since it's probably > off-topic for this list. Yes, it's a Dell 5210n. -- One organism, one vote. From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Mon Nov 21 15:16:16 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] display of html content In-Reply-To: <4EC9B697.6090104@FreeBSD.org> References: <4EC6A612.1090301@FreeBSD.org> <4EC9B697.6090104@FreeBSD.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 20 Nov 2011, Doug Barton wrote: > On 11/19/2011 03:31, Joshua Miller wrote: > >> On the note of locking and concurrent access when using IMAP, alpine, >> and thunderbird, I have seen an issue, though it's minor. I'm fairly >> certain it's thunderbird's fault. > > PEBKAC. Opening the same inbox with 2 different IMAP clients at the same > time is pretty much undefined behavior. > > You may be able to improve the situation by setting thunderbird to never > poll. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_error#PEBKAC I had to look that one up. M From pierre.frenkiel at gmail.com Tue Nov 22 04:49:36 2011 From: pierre.frenkiel at gmail.com (Pierre Frenkiel) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] problem with the gmail smtp-server Message-ID: hi, If I set in .pinerc, smtp-server=smtp.gmail.com all the mails I send are also sent to my own address, as if there was a Cc: (which is not the case) That doesn't happen if I use an other smtp server. Any idea? -- Pierre Frenkiel From alpine at nephros.org Tue Nov 22 07:00:40 2011 From: alpine at nephros.org (Peter Gantner) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] problem with the gmail smtp-server In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4ECBB918.6010008@nephros.org> Hello Pierre! On 2011-11-22 13:49, Pierre Frenkiel wrote: > hi, > If I set in .pinerc, smtp-server=smtp.gmail.com > all the mails I send are also sent to my own address, as if there > was a Cc: (which is not the case) > That doesn't happen if I use an other smtp server. > Any idea? > You will have to authenticate against the gmail SMTP if you want to send messages there. The mail server is smtp.googlemail.com port 25 You username is the full gmail address, with your password. TLS is required. So try this: smtp-server=smtp.googlemail.com/tls/user=pierre@gmail.com HTH, Peter G. From pierre.frenkiel at gmail.com Tue Nov 22 07:16:28 2011 From: pierre.frenkiel at gmail.com (Pierre Frenkiel) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] problem with the gmail smtp-server In-Reply-To: <4ECBB918.6010008@nephros.org> References: <4ECBB918.6010008@nephros.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Nov 2011, Peter Gantner wrote: > You will have to authenticate against the gmail SMTP if you want to send > messages there. hi Peter, I didn't say that I can't send mail, but that they sent twice... the authentication is done via the .pine-passfile, and tls is not needed. Anyway, the problem is the same, with or without /tls cheers, -- Pierre Frenkiel From alpine at benizi.com Tue Nov 22 08:26:14 2011 From: alpine at benizi.com (Benjamin R. Haskell) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] problem with the gmail smtp-server In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Nov 2011, Pierre Frenkiel wrote: > hi, > If I set in .pinerc, smtp-server=smtp.gmail.com all the mails I send > are also sent to my own address, as if there was a Cc: (which is not > the case) > That doesn't happen if I use an other smtp server. > Any idea? It's a feature. AFAIK, there's no way to disable it. >From http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=78892 """ [...] as a general rule, we suggest the following settings: Sending: ? Do NOT save sent messages on the server. If your client is sending mail through Gmail's SMTP server, your sent messages will be automatically copied to the [Gmail]/Sent Mail folder. """ -- Best, Ben From scf at FreeBSD.org Tue Nov 22 08:40:42 2011 From: scf at FreeBSD.org (Sean C. Farley) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Printing emails with UTF-8 In-Reply-To: References: <4EC9B404.8050705@FreeBSD.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Nov 2011, Marco Beishuizen wrote: > On Mon, 21 Nov 2011, the wise Doug Barton wrote: > >> UTF-8 is not plain text. You should probably set up CUPS. >> > > So the email displayed in Alpine is not plain text? > And I don't like CUPS so rather use lpd. For a network postscript solution, I use the following. Entry in /etc/printcap (9100@hp is the port@hostname of the printer): lp|hp3055|HP 3055:\ :sh:\ :lp=9100@hp:rp=hp3055:sd=/var/spool/output/hp3055:lf=/var/log/lpd-errs:\ :if=/root/print/if-print.sh: My if-print.sh script is a bit out-of-date (not working) as it does different things based on the type of file. I need to clean it. The crux of it posts a text file in postscript using: /usr/local/bin/nenscript -G -p- This uses nenscript (port print/nenscript) for the conversion. Sean -- scf@FreeBSD.org From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Tue Nov 22 08:43:24 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] problem with the gmail smtp-server In-Reply-To: References: <4ECBB918.6010008@nephros.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Nov 2011, Pierre Frenkiel wrote: > On Tue, 22 Nov 2011, Peter Gantner wrote: > >> You will have to authenticate against the gmail SMTP if you want to >> send messages there. > > hi Peter, > I didn't say that I can't send mail, but that they sent twice... > the authentication is done via the .pine-passfile, and tls is not needed. > Anyway, the problem is the same, with or without /tls I'm not sure of what is causing your problem, but I don't have that problem and I am using gmail with the settings below. Just replace "USER" with your gmail username. Maybe that will help. Or maybe I don't understand your problem. When I send a message, a copy is stored by Alpine and a copy is stored by Gmail. If I go to Gmail, I can find my sent messages, but they don't appear in the Gmail Inbox, so they don't look like incoming messages. They do appear in the "discussions," though. Mike # Sets domain part of From: and local addresses in outgoing mail. user-domain=gmail.com # List of SMTP servers for sending mail. If blank: Unix Pine uses sendmail. smtp-server=smtp.gmail.com/submit/tls/user=USER@gmail.com # List of directories where saved-message folders may be. First one is # the default for Saves. Example: Main {host1}mail/[], Desktop mail\[] # Syntax: optnl-label {optnl-imap-hostname}optnl-directory-path[] folder-collections=mail/[], Gmail {imap.gmail.com/novalidate-cert/user=USER/ssl}[] From D.H.Davis at bath.ac.uk Tue Nov 22 09:09:49 2011 From: D.H.Davis at bath.ac.uk (Dennis Davis) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Printing emails with UTF-8 In-Reply-To: References: <4EC9B404.8050705@FreeBSD.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Nov 2011, Sean C. Farley wrote: > From: Sean C. Farley > To: Marco Beishuizen > Cc: alpine-info@u.washington.edu > Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 16:40:42 > Subject: Re: [Alpine-info] Printing emails with UTF-8 ... > My if-print.sh script is a bit out-of-date (not working) as it > does different things based on the type of file. I need to clean > it. The crux of it posts a text file in postscript using: > > /usr/local/bin/nenscript -G -p- > > This uses nenscript (port print/nenscript) for the conversion. nenscript looks to be a bit long in the tooth -- not that this is a bad thing. Using GNU Enscript: http://www.markkurossi.com/genscript/ will possibly be easier for many flavours of Linux etc as it's likely to be readily available as a package. -- Dennis Davis, BUCS, University of Bath, Bath, BA2 7AY, UK D.H.Davis@bath.ac.uk Phone: +44 1225 386101 From pierre.frenkiel at gmail.com Tue Nov 22 10:27:07 2011 From: pierre.frenkiel at gmail.com (pierre.frenkiel@gmail.com) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_=5BAlpine-info=5D_problem_with_the_gmail_smtp-server=C3=97?= In-Reply-To: References: <4ECBB918.6010008@nephros.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Nov 2011, Mike Miller wrote: > I'm not sure of what is causing your problem, but I don't have that problem > and I am using gmail with the settings below. Just replace "USER" with your > gmail username. Maybe that will help. > > Or maybe I don't understand your problem. When I send a message, a copy is > stored by Alpine I suppose you mean the copy corresponding to the Fcc filed, if any. In my case, it is not that: When I send a mail to somebody, I get a copy actually coming from the imap.gmail.com server (I can easily see that looking at the fetchmail log) If I send a mail to me at an other address (i.e. pierre.frenkiel@laposte.net) I received it first from imap.gmail.com, and after 15 seconds, from imap.laposte.net. Both have in the From field pierre.frenkiel@gmail.com, although I have in the alpine settings: user-domain=laposte.net customized-hdrs=From: pierre.frenkiel@laposte.net ,Alt-Addresses=pierre.frenkiel@laposte.net more curious: If I set customized-hdrs=From: Pierre Frenkiel the From field becomes: Pierre Frenkiel it's a nice puzzle ! I tried to look at my gmail settings, but found nothing Benjamin wrote: It's a feature. AFAIK, there's no way to disable it. but according your experience, that's not true. -- Pierre Frenkiel From romkra at gmx.net Tue Nov 22 10:41:28 2011 From: romkra at gmx.net (romkra@gmx.net) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Printing emails with UTF-8 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hei Marco, Marco Beishuizen wrote on Sunday 20.11.11: > But when an email is printed (a Dell 5210n/PS), the characters > with accents are not printed correctly. As I have a postscript printer I followed Dan's approach: converting it to postscript using 'a2ps' and sending that to the printer. I had to deal with some encoding issue, too. Find below my solution, maybe it gives you or someone else some ideas. Roman bash script for printing: #!/bin/bash # we need a printer and a temporary file printerName=myprinter tmpFile=/tmp/printEmail.tmp # write the e-mail from stdin to the tmpFile touch $tmpFile chmod 700 $tmpFile # some privacy cat - >> $tmpFile # let's look for date and subject of the e-mail... datum=`head -1 $tmpFile | awk -F"Date: " '{print $2}' | awk '{print $2" "$3" "$4}'` subject=`grep '^Subject: ' $tmpFile | head -1 | awk -F"Subject: " '{print $2}'` # ... and write date and subject to the a2ps headers. # a2ps expects iso8859, alpine delivers UTF-8, so let's convert it /bin/rm -f ${tmpFile}.ps iconv -t ISO885915 -f UTF8 $tmpFile | \ a2ps --center-title="$subject" --left-title="$datum" -o ${tmpFile}.ps # and print the ps-file: lpr -P$druckerName -o Duplex=DuplexTumble ${tmpFile}.ps /bin/rm -f ${tmpFile}.ps /bin/rm -f $tmpFile activate this script by putting it as print command in -> Setup -> Printer -> Personally selected print command From peale at physics.ucsb.edu Tue Nov 22 11:06:59 2011 From: peale at physics.ucsb.edu (Stan Peale) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] links contained in forwarded emails. Message-ID: Has anyone thought more about how I can keep the links active in forwarded emails from alpine. Now the links are stripped from all emails that I forward. Thanks, Stan Peale From alpine at benizi.com Tue Nov 22 11:33:36 2011 From: alpine at benizi.com (Benjamin R. Haskell) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_=5BAlpine-info=5D_problem_with_the_gmail_smtp-server=C3=97?= In-Reply-To: References: <4ECBB918.6010008@nephros.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Nov 2011, pierre.frenkiel@gmail.com wrote: > When I send a mail to somebody, I get a copy actually coming from > the imap.gmail.com server (I can easily see that looking at the fetchmail > log) > > If I send a mail to me at an other address (i.e. > pierre.frenkiel@laposte.net) > I received it first from imap.gmail.com, and after 15 seconds, from > imap.laposte.net. Both have in the From field pierre.frenkiel@gmail.com, > although I have in the alpine settings: > user-domain=laposte.net > customized-hdrs=From: pierre.frenkiel@laposte.net > ,Alt-Addresses=pierre.frenkiel@laposte.net > > more curious: If I set > customized-hdrs=From: Pierre Frenkiel > the From field becomes: > Pierre Frenkiel > > it's a nice puzzle ! What's the puzzle? I sent you a link to this documented behavior: if you send mail through the Gmail SMTP server, it will make a copy of it. It will also change the 'From:' header to whatever user you log in as. Gmail's SMTP server won't let you use a custom 'From:' header. (Which is why I use my own SMTP server, despite using Gmail for Domains.) The web interface will let you use an external SMTP server for alternate addresses, but I think it doesn't apply when you use Gmail's SMTP server. > I tried to look at my gmail settings, but found nothing That's what I meant by "there's no way to disable it." > Benjamin wrote: > It's a feature. AFAIK, there's no way to disable it. > but according your experience, that's not true. What do you mean by "according to my experience"? When I use Gmail's SMTP server, I get a copy of every email added to the [Gmail]/Sent Mail folder. It will show up in imap.gmail.com if you send via smtp.gmail.com. -- Best, Ben From alpine at nephros.org Tue Nov 22 11:35:42 2011 From: alpine at nephros.org (Peter Gantner) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Printing emails with UTF-8 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4ECBF98E.3080306@nephros.org> On 2011-11-22 19:41, romkra@gmx.net wrote: > Marco Beishuizen wrote on Sunday 20.11.11: > >> But when an email is printed (a Dell 5210n/PS), the characters with >> accents are not printed correctly. > > As I have a postscript printer I followed Dan's approach: converting it > to postscript using 'a2ps' and sending that to the printer. I had to > deal with some encoding issue, too. Find below my solution, maybe it > gives you or someone else some ideas. Just adding to the list of suggestions of "text"-to-postscript filters: There is also u2ps at http://u2ps.berlios.de/, like a2ps but supports UTF-8 so all the recode pipes can be saved in the various scripts. Greets, Peter G. From alpine-info at monkeybutt.com Tue Nov 22 12:34:46 2011 From: alpine-info at monkeybutt.com (Baron Fujimoto) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Re=3A_=5BAlpine-info=5D_problem_with_the_gmail_smtp-server=D7?= In-Reply-To: References: <4ECBB918.6010008@nephros.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Nov 2011, Benjamin R. Haskell wrote: : It will also change the 'From:' header to whatever user you log in as. Gmail's : SMTP server won't let you use a custom 'From:' header. (Which is why I use my : own SMTP server, despite using Gmail for Domains.) The web interface will let : you use an external SMTP server for alternate addresses, but I think it : doesn't apply when you use Gmail's SMTP server. You can change the From: header and still use the Gmail SMTP server if you "Add another email address you own" in Gmail's settings. Mail Settings > Accounts and Import > Send mail as You'll have to confirm the address, and Gmail will still add a "Sender:" header with the authenticated Gmail sender's address (don't know any way around that). My annoyances with using alpine with Gmail accounts are: 1) Due to the way Gmail maps tags to folders, when you move messages from one folder to another in alpine, the status flags for subsequent or nearby messages get set unexpectedly. Applying this sort of action to a group of selected/zoomed messages also is pretty hit or miss (mostly miss). 2) Rotating sent mail folders at the start of the month doesn't seem to work because (I'm guessing) alpine wants to rename the sent mail folder, which Gmail doesn't allow, rather than copying the messages to a new folder. At least mutt seems to handle this acceptably. From pierre.frenkiel at gmail.com Tue Nov 22 13:05:47 2011 From: pierre.frenkiel at gmail.com (Pierre Frenkiel) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_=5BAlpine-info=5D_problem_with_the_gmail_smtp-server=C3=97?= In-Reply-To: References: <4ECBB918.6010008@nephros.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Nov 2011, Benjamin R. Haskell wrote: > What do you mean by "according to my experience"? When I use Gmail's SMTP > server, I get a copy of every email added to the [Gmail]/Sent Mail folder. > It will show up in imap.gmail.com if you send via smtp.gmail.com. hi Benjamin, you deleted an interesting line from my post: On Tue, 22 Nov 2011, Mike Miller wrote: which would have tell you that I was replying to Mike, and not you !!!! Please read Mike's post. I tried to uncheck the "show in IMAP" box in the labels tab, and choose "hide" for all labels but inbox, but that changed nothing. -- Pierre Frenkiel From mats at dufberg.se Tue Nov 22 13:18:54 2011 From: mats at dufberg.se (Mats Dufberg) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] links contained in forwarded emails. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On nov 22, 2011, 11:06 (-0800) Stan Peale wrote: > Has anyone thought more about how I can keep the links active in > forwarded emails from alpine. Now the links are stripped from all > emails that I forward. If you use bounce instead of forward then the original mail will be resent as it is (with some new header fields). Mats ----------------------------------------------------------------- | Mats Dufberg mats@dufberg.se | | Granskogsv?gen 6 | | SE-16575 H?sselby, Sweden +46-70-258 2588 | ----------------------------------------------------------------- From alpine at benizi.com Tue Nov 22 13:36:12 2011 From: alpine at benizi.com (Benjamin R. Haskell) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_=5BAlpine-info=5D_problem_with_the_gmail_smtp-server=C3=97?= In-Reply-To: References: <4ECBB918.6010008@nephros.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Nov 2011, Pierre Frenkiel wrote: > On Tue, 22 Nov 2011, Benjamin R. Haskell wrote: > >> What do you mean by "according to my experience"? When I use Gmail's >> SMTP server, I get a copy of every email added to the [Gmail]/Sent >> Mail folder. It will show up in imap.gmail.com if you send via >> smtp.gmail.com. > > hi Benjamin, > you deleted an interesting line from my post: > > On Tue, 22 Nov 2011, Mike Miller wrote: > > which would have tell you that I was replying to Mike, and not you !!!! > Please read Mike's post. I saw it and trimmed it intentionally. None of what Mike wrote (about the possibility that Alpine was the one storing the copy) was relevant to how I responded to the portions of the email that you wrote (about sending an email to @laposte.net, which showed up as from @gmail.com). The portion that confused me was: (Pierre Frenkiel wrote:) > Benjamin wrote: > > > It's a feature. AFAIK, there's no way to disable it. > > but according your experience, that's not true. How is it not true according to my experience? Pierre Frenkiel also wrote: > I tried to uncheck the "show in IMAP" box in the labels tab, and > choose "hide" for all labels but inbox, but that changed nothing. Have you recently added any filters on your own addresses? I've noticed in the past that messages that hit the 'Never send to Spam' action or which get tagged with a label according to a filter often appear in my Inbox, even if I'm the sender. -- Best, Ben From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Tue Nov 22 14:23:33 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Printing emails with UTF-8 In-Reply-To: <4ECBF98E.3080306@nephros.org> References: <4ECBF98E.3080306@nephros.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Nov 2011, Peter Gantner wrote: > Just adding to the list of suggestions of "text"-to-postscript filters: > > There is also u2ps at http://u2ps.berlios.de/, like a2ps but supports > UTF-8 so all the recode pipes can be saved in the various scripts. Bottom line: I can't get u2ps to handle a challenging UTF-8 text file, but muttprint does a very nice job... I would like to see some test results. A couple of years ago we had a nice thread about UTF-8, and we've had it again more recently. It's tricky to get everything set up correctly (the right terminal, the right font, the right Alpine settings, the right system settings, etc.). To test that we had it working, we used this UTF-8 encoded sample plain-text file: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/ucs/examples/UTF-8-demo.txt I once sent it to the list so that others could see it in incoming mail and know that they could read it: http://mailman13.u.washington.edu/pipermail/alpine-info/2009-March/001824.html As you can see there, the mail-to-html translation gets the characters quite well but not the alignment. In alpine, for me everything looks right (possibly a few characters don't show up). In my web browser there are some alignment problems, but it isn't terrible (I'm using chromium-browser right now, but I think Firefox did better). I am resending that text file below so that all of you can look at it in Alpine, or try to print it out and see how you do. Anyway, what I'd really like to find is a way to translate that UTF-8-demo.txt file to postscript and have it look right. I tried using u2ps and could not get a good result. Muttprint printed to the printer when I tried to make a file, so maybe the muttprint man page is not correct in claiming that the -p option overrides the system settings. But muttprint did a great job printing the UTF-8-demo.txt file. I couldn't capture the postscript in a file, but it printed it and the printout is actually quite nice. The alignment is perfect for math and boxes and the only things obviously missing are Thai and Amharic, but that might be because of my printer. Mike UTF-8 encoded sample plain-text file ???????????????????????????????????? Markus Kuhn [?ma?k?s ku?n] ? 2002-07-25 The ASCII compatible UTF-8 encoding used in this plain-text file is defined in Unicode, ISO 10646-1, and RFC 2279. Using Unicode/UTF-8, you can write in emails and source code things such as Mathematics and sciences: ? E?da = Q, n ? ?, ? f(i) = ? g(i), ????????????? ????a?+b? ??? ?x??: ?x? = ???x?, ? ? ?? = ?(?? ? ?), ????????? ??? ???? c? ??? ? ? ?? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?, ??? ??? ??? ? ??? ? < a ? b ? c ? d ? ? ? (?A? ? ?B?), ??? ? ??? ??? ?a?-b???? 2H? + O? ? 2H?O, R = 4.7 k?, ? 200 mm ???i=1 ??? Linguistics and dictionaries: ?i ?nt??n???n?l f??n?t?k ?so?si?e??n Y [??psil?n], Yen [j?n], Yoga [?jo?g?] APL: ((V?V)=??V)/V?,V ???????????? Nicer typography in plain text files: ???????????????????????????????????????????? ? ? ? ? ?single? and ?double? quotes ? ? ? ? ? Curly apostrophes: ?We?ve been here? ? ? ? ? ? Latin-1 apostrophe and accents: '?` ? ? ? ? ? ?deutsche? ?Anf?hrungszeichen? ? ? ? ? ? ?, ?, ?, ?, 3?4, ?, ?5/+5, ?, ? ? ? ? ? ? ASCII safety test: 1lI|, 0OD, 8B ? ? ??????????? ? ? ? the euro symbol: ? 14.95 ? ? ? ? ??????????? ? ???????????????????????????????????????????? Combining characters: STARG??TE SG-1, a = v? = r?, a? ? b? Greek (in Polytonic): The Greek anthem: ?? ??????? ??? ??? ???? ??? ??????? ??? ???????, ?? ??????? ??? ??? ??? ??? ?? ??? ??????? ?? ??. ???? ?? ??????? ???????? ??? ???????? ?? ???? ??? ??? ????? ??????????? ?????, ? ?????, ??????????! From a speech of Demosthenes in the 4th century BC: ???? ????? ?????????? ??? ??????????, ? ?????? ?????????, ???? ?? ??? ?? ???????? ???????? ??? ???? ???? ???? ?????? ??? ?????? ???? ??? ??? ?????? ???? ??? ???????????? ???????? ??? ???????????, ?? ?? ???????? ??? ????? ?????????, ???? ???? ?? ????????? ????? ???????? ????? ????????? ????. ????? ??? ???? ??? ???????? ?? ?? ??????? ???????? ? ??? ????????, ???? ?? ???????????, ???? ??? ????? ??????????? ???? ??????????. ??? ??, ??? ??? ???? ???? ?? ????? ??? ?? ????? ????? ??????? ??? ???????? ????????????, ??? ???? ??????? ????? ??? ???? ???, ?? ????? ??????? ????? ????????? ??? ?????? ????????? ????? ?????? ????????? ???? ????? ??? ??????, ???? ???? ????????? ???????. ??? ??? ????? ??????? ??????, ???? ??? ???? ??? ???? ??????????? ??? ??? ?? ?????? ??????? ???????? ???? ?? ??? ????? ????? ?????????, ??????? ??????? ???? ??? ???????? ???????? ????????? ?????. ???????????, ?? ??????????? Georgian: From a Unicode conference invitation: ?????? ?????? ??????? ??????????? Unicode-?? ????? ???????????? ????????????? ???????????, ??????? ?????????? 10-12 ?????, ?. ???????, ??????????. ??????????? ???????? ????? ???????? ?????????? ???? ???????? ????????? ????????? ?? Unicode-?, ??????????????????? ?? ???????????, Unicode-?? ?????????? ????????? ??????????, ?? ??????????? ???????????, ?????????, ????????? ???????????? ?? ???????????? ??????????? ??????????. Russian: From a Unicode conference invitation: ????????????????? ?????? ?? ??????? ????????????? ??????????? ?? Unicode, ??????? ????????? 10-12 ????? 1997 ???? ? ?????? ? ????????. ??????????? ??????? ??????? ???? ????????? ?? ???????? ??????????? ????????? ? Unicode, ??????????? ? ???????????????????, ?????????? ? ?????????? Unicode ? ????????? ???????????? ???????? ? ??????????? ???????????, ???????, ??????? ? ???????????? ???????????? ????????. Thai (UCS Level 2): Excerpt from a poetry on The Romance of The Three Kingdoms (a Chinese classic 'San Gua'): [----------------------------|------------------------] ? ?????????????????????????????? ????????????????????????? ????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????? ????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????? ??????????????????????? ????????????????????????? ??????????????????????? ?????????????????????????? ??????????????????????????? ????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????? ?????????????????????? ??????????????????????? ? (The above is a two-column text. If combining characters are handled correctly, the lines of the second column should be aligned with the | character above.) Ethiopian: Proverbs in the Amharic language: ??? ????? ??? ?????? ?? ??? ?????? ?????? ?? ???? ???? ??? ?? ???? ?? ???? ??? ?????? ??? ???? ??? ?????? ??? ??? ?? ???? ????? ?????? ?? ???? ????? ???? ????? ?? ???? ???? ???? ?? ????? ??? ??? ???? ???????? ???? ?????? ??? ????? ?????? ????? ??? ???? ??? ???? ????? ?? ????? ??? ????? ??? ???? ???? ??? ?? ????? ????? ??? ?? ???? ??? ???? ???? ??? ???? ??? ???? ?? ??? ???? ?????? ????? ????? ?? ???? Runes: ?? ???? ??? ?? ???? ?? ??? ????? ??????????? ??? ?? ???? (Old English, which transcribed into Latin reads 'He cwaeth that he bude thaem lande northweardum with tha Westsae.' and means 'He said that he lived in the northern land near the Western Sea.') 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From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Tue Nov 22 14:27:50 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Printing emails with UTF-8 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Nov 2011, romkra@gmx.net wrote: > # a2ps expects iso8859, alpine delivers UTF-8, so let's convert it > /bin/rm -f ${tmpFile}.ps > iconv -t ISO885915 -f UTF8 $tmpFile | \ > a2ps --center-title="$subject" --left-title="$datum" -o ${tmpFile}.ps I'm no expert, by far, but my suspicion is that ISO-8859 is a much more limited encoding than is UTF-8, so this is a limited kind of solution that will work fine in a lot of situations. It would be best to have a tool that converts UTF to postscript and looks good. I think muttprint does this. Check out my last message. Mike From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Tue Nov 22 14:29:44 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] links contained in forwarded emails. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Nov 2011, Stan Peale wrote: > Has anyone thought more about how I can keep the links active in > forwarded emails from alpine. Now the links are stripped from all > emails that I forward. I don't understand how that is possible. Are you using some kind of filter? I use Alpine, of course, and I've never seen that happen. I'm using Alpine 2.00 from the Ubuntu synaptic repository, if that matters. Mike From unrtst at gmail.com Tue Nov 22 17:58:52 2011 From: unrtst at gmail.com (Joshua Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] links contained in forwarded emails. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 5:29 PM, Mike Miller wrote: > On Tue, 22 Nov 2011, Stan Peale wrote: > > Has anyone thought more about how I can keep the links active in >> forwarded emails from alpine. Now the links are stripped from all emails >> that I forward. >> > > > I don't understand how that is possible. Are you using some kind of > filter? I use Alpine, of course, and I've never seen that happen. I'm > using Alpine 2.00 from the Ubuntu synaptic repository, if that matters. > > Just a stab in the dark cause, as I've read this thread, it seems that the problem may not be described as clearly as it could be. My guess would be that by "link", the GP means an active link that was marked up with HTML in the original message, like www.google.com. The orig message was likely a multipart-alternative body, with both text/plain and text/html parts. When replying in alpine, the message sent is just a text/plain message. The URL's will probably be included, but may not be present if the user replied to the text/html part and the link text wasn't the URL (ex. at google). In any case, it won't be an active html anchor that is sent from alpine, cause it's all just text/plain. Without more details, that'd be my guess. And if that's right, then there's not much that can be done about that at this time. Personally, and somewhat related, my top feature request after over a decade of using pine is for the ability to send messages as multipart-alternative with both a text/plain version and text/html like all modern clients do. I have no interest in lots of fancy HTML markup options, but if there was an alternate editor invocation to edit the html part, then pine used it's html rendering engine (or an option to use an external program for that, like w3m with a dump) to make the text/plain part, I think that'd be just swell. I've tried a bunch of ways to make a sending filter to do something like that with no luck (pine jacks the resulting mime type). FWIW, I'm with the camp that thinks email should be plain text, but I think we lost the war and it's time to concede to the current compromise (sending multipart-alternative). The sending, coupled with the recent thread about viewing html emails and getting the in-line attachments to display correctly, would probably allow people to ditch the occasional use of thunderbird (or similar) - having to bounce between clients, even occasionally, surely makes using alpine less attractive (not so much I'm giving it up though). I think these features would also give alpine a leg up on mutt and the other text based MUI's. I don't know why people are against adding this feature... it would be non-intrusive, no one would be forced to use it, and it'd reuse so much code there'd be nearly no bloat to the codebase. (ex. see this thread: http://does-not-exist.org/mail-archives/mutt-dev/msg08115.html) Sorry if my tangent ends up thread-jacking :-) -- Josh I. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Tue Nov 22 19:39:16 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Re=3A_=5BAlpine-info=5D_problem_with_the_gmail_smtp-server=D7?= In-Reply-To: References: <4ECBB918.6010008@nephros.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Nov 2011, pierre.frenkiel@gmail.com wrote: > On Tue, 22 Nov 2011, Mike Miller wrote: > >> I'm not sure of what is causing your problem, but I don't have that problem >> and I am using gmail with the settings below. Just replace "USER" with >> your gmail username. Maybe that will help. >> >> Or maybe I don't understand your problem. When I send a message, a copy is >> stored by Alpine > I suppose you mean the copy corresponding to the Fcc filed, if any. > In my case, it is not that: > When I send a mail to somebody, I get a copy actually coming from > the imap.gmail.com server (I can easily see that looking at the fetchmail > log) Do you have to use imap with fetchmail? I've been using pop and it doesn't fetch messages that I sent from Alpine, but it does fetch the ones I sent from Gmail's web interface, which is exactly what I want. I think I just got lucky because I wouldn't know how to make that happen - it just happened to me. Here are some possibly relevant settings from ~/.fetchmailrc (change USER to your gmail username): poll pop.gmail.com with proto POP3 and options no dns user 'USER@gmail.com' with pass "PASSWORD" is 'USER' here options ssl sslcertck sslcertpath '/home/$USER/certs/.certs' keep smtphost localhost # stops Fetchmail from appending @pop.gmail.com to recipient addresses that have no "@" no rewrite # You would use this to by-pass Postfix mda "/usr/bin/procmail -d %T" I don't know if that will help at all but maybe someday it will help someone. > If I send a mail to me at an other address (i.e. > pierre.frenkiel@laposte.net) > I received it first from imap.gmail.com, and after 15 seconds, from > imap.laposte.net. If you are using fetchmail, then messages will arrive when fetchmail grabs them, so maybe the 15 second difference occurs only because you are fetching from gmail 15 seconds before you fetch from laposte. Mike From peale at physics.ucsb.edu Tue Nov 22 21:10:18 2011 From: peale at physics.ucsb.edu (Stan Peale) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] links contained in forwarded emails. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mats, Thanks for the heads up. That seems to work in the one example that I have tried. There may be a way to make the ordinary "forward" preserve the links, but "bounce" will be a workable alternative. Best, Stan On Tue, 22 Nov 2011, Mats Dufberg wrote: > On nov 22, 2011, 11:06 (-0800) Stan Peale wrote: > >> Has anyone thought more about how I can keep the links active in >> forwarded emails from alpine. Now the links are stripped from all >> emails that I forward. > > If you use bounce instead of forward then the original mail will be resent > as it is (with some new header fields). > > > Mats > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > | Mats Dufberg mats@dufberg.se | > | Granskogsv?gen 6 | > | SE-16575 H?sselby, Sweden +46-70-258 2588 | > ----------------------------------------------------------------- From peale at physics.ucsb.edu Tue Nov 22 21:13:36 2011 From: peale at physics.ucsb.edu (Stan Peale) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] links contained in forwarded emails. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mike, Thanks for the response. Mats Dufberg pointed out that "bounce" instead of "forward" will preserve the links. Best, Stan On Tue, 22 Nov 2011, Mike Miller wrote: > On Tue, 22 Nov 2011, Stan Peale wrote: > >> Has anyone thought more about how I can keep the links active in forwarded >> emails from alpine. Now the links are stripped from all emails that I >> forward. > > > I don't understand how that is possible. Are you using some kind of filter? > I use Alpine, of course, and I've never seen that happen. I'm using Alpine > 2.00 from the Ubuntu synaptic repository, if that matters. > > Mike > _______________________________________________ > Alpine-info mailing list > Alpine-info@u.washington.edu > http://mailman13.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/alpine-info > From peale at physics.ucsb.edu Tue Nov 22 21:17:50 2011 From: peale at physics.ucsb.edu (Stan Peale) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] links contained in forwarded emails. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Josh, Thanks for the response. I did not understand much of what you said, but Mats Dufberg sent me a solution that you have probably already read on the forum. Use "bounce" instead of "forward." Best, Stan On Tue, 22 Nov 2011, Joshua Miller wrote: >On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 5:29 PM, Mike Miller wrote: > On Tue, 22 Nov 2011, Stan Peale wrote: > > Has anyone thought more about how I can keep the > links active in forwarded emails from alpine. ?Now > the links are stripped from all emails that I > forward. > > > >I don't understand how that is possible. ?Are you using some kind of >filter? ?I use Alpine, of course, and I've never seen that happen. >?I'm using Alpine 2.00 from the Ubuntu synaptic repository, if that >matters. > > >Just a stab in the dark cause, as I've read this thread, it seems that the >problem may not be described as clearly as it could be. > >My guess would be that by "link", the GP means an active link that was >marked up with HTML in the original message, like href="http://www.google.com">www.google.com. > >The orig message was likely a multipart-alternative body, with both >text/plain and text/html parts. > >When replying in alpine, the message sent is just a text/plain message. The >URL's will probably be included, but may not be present if the user replied >to the text/html part and the link text wasn't the URL (ex. href="http://www.google.com">at google). In any case, it won't be an >active html anchor that is sent from alpine, cause it's all just text/plain. > >Without more details, that'd be my guess. And if that's right, then there's >not much that can be done about that at this time. > >Personally, and somewhat related, my top feature request after over a decade >of using pine is for the ability to send messages as multipart-alternative >with both a text/plain version and text/html like all modern clients do. I >have no interest in lots of fancy HTML markup options, but if there was an >alternate editor invocation to edit the html part, then pine used it's html >rendering engine (or an option to use an external program for that, like w3m >with a dump) to make the text/plain part, I think that'd be just swell. I've >tried a bunch of ways to make a sending filter to do something like that >with no luck (pine jacks the resulting mime type). > >FWIW, I'm with the camp that thinks email should be plain text, but I think >we lost the war and it's time to concede to the current compromise (sending >multipart-alternative). The sending, coupled with the recent thread about >viewing html emails and getting the in-line attachments to display >correctly, would probably allow people to ditch the occasional use of >thunderbird (or similar) - having to bounce between clients, even >occasionally, surely makes using alpine less attractive (not so much I'm >giving it up though). > >I think these features would also give alpine a leg up on mutt and the other >text based MUI's. I don't know why people are against adding this feature... >it would be non-intrusive, no one would be forced to use it, and it'd reuse >so much code there'd be nearly no bloat to the codebase. (ex. see this >thread:??http://does-not-exist.org/mail-archives/mutt-dev/msg08115.html) > >Sorry if my tangent ends up thread-jacking :-) >-- >Josh I. > > From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Tue Nov 22 22:17:46 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] preferred list address Message-ID: We used to use this list address: alpine-info@u.washington.edu But recently I've been seeing this: alpine-info@washington.edu I assume that both work. Maybe the latter is now preferred. Does anyone know? Mike From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Tue Nov 22 22:37:24 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] links contained in forwarded emails. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Nov 2011, Joshua Miller wrote: > When replying in alpine, the message sent is just a text/plain message. > The URL's will probably be included, but may not be present if the user > replied to the text/html part and the link text wasn't the URL (ex. href=" http://www.google.com">at google). In any case, it won't be > an active html anchor that is sent from alpine, cause it's all just > text/plain. > > Without more details, that'd be my guess. And if that's right, then > there's not much that can be done about that at this time. OK. I think I see what the problem is. When I forward a message, I would like for all of the attachments to be included, but I think it isn't possible to forward a message including the alternative HTML version of the text. Here's a typical message: ALPINE 2.00 ATTACHMENT INDEX saved-messages 1.1 ~51 lines Text/PLAIN (charset: Windows-1252) 1.2 ~101 lines Text/HTML (charset: Windows-1252) 2 151 bytes Image/GIF (Name: "Blank Bkgrd.gif") While viewing the message, if I hit F for forward, it will forward only attachment 1.1, the plain text, unless I have used A to show the HTML, then it will convert the HTML to text and forward that. In both cases it will automatically attach attachment 2, the GIF image. Attached HTML files get treated like PDF or MS-Word or any other attched file -- they are forwarded -- it is only when the HTML is the alternate form of the text that it is dropped by Alpine. I think this is the problem Stan is talking about. I have dealt with this in three different ways. (1) using bounce. I don't like that because some people will not realize that I bounced it to them. When I want them to know, I don't use bounce, or I warn them about it in advance. (2) using H to display header, then F to forward. It will ask if you want to forward the message as a MIME digest. Say yes and it will attach the entire message. When you receive a message sent that way, you can save the email attachment and you will have the entire message. (3) save the HTML as a file, then attach it by hand. It would be nice if Alpine allowed us to forward the alternative HTML as an attachment. For some messages the HTML is nicely formatted and it should not be dumped. I like plain text messages. Most HTML formatting is not very helpful and the information could have been encoded just as well in plain text. As we all know, not everyone has our skills or shares our values and they aren't going to just start doing what we want. When I receive a message with nice HTML and messy text, I want to forward the HTML and I want it to be easy to do that. Mike From pierre.frenkiel at gmail.com Wed Nov 23 01:31:41 2011 From: pierre.frenkiel at gmail.com (Pierre Frenkiel) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_=5BAlpine-info=5D_problem_with_the_gmail_smtp-server=C3=97?= In-Reply-To: References: <4ECBB918.6010008@nephros.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Nov 2011, Benjamin R. Haskell wrote: > The portion that confused me was: > > (Pierre Frenkiel wrote:) > >> Benjamin wrote: >> >> > It's a feature. AFAIK, there's no way to disable it. >> >> but according your experience, that's not true. If you don't trim the 1st line, that becomes: On Tue, 22 Nov 2011, pierre.frenkiel@gmail.com wrote: > On Tue, 22 Nov 2011, Mike Miller wrote: > . . . . . . > Benjamin wrote: > It's a feature. AFAIK, there's no way to disable it. > but according your experience, that's not true. and then it's perfectly clear that I'm replying to Mike, who says: "I'm not sure of what is causing your problem, but I don't have that problem" -- Pierre Frenkiel From hgs at dmu.ac.uk Wed Nov 23 02:19:27 2011 From: hgs at dmu.ac.uk (Hugh Sasse) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] preferred list address In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Nov 2011, Mike Miller wrote: > We used to use this list address: > > alpine-info@u.washington.edu > > But recently I've been seeing this: > > alpine-info@washington.edu > > I assume that both work. Maybe the latter is now preferred. Does anyone > know? Your message came with the header: List-Post: which seems to be a fairly authoritative answer. > > Mike Hugh From pierre.frenkiel at gmail.com Wed Nov 23 02:28:14 2011 From: pierre.frenkiel at gmail.com (Pierre Frenkiel) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Re: In-Reply-To: References: <4ECBB918.6010008@nephros.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Nov 2011, Mike Miller wrote: > Do you have to use imap with fetchmail? yes, I'm using IMAP. At last, instead of that google mess, I found an other smtp server with which I have no problem. > If you are using fetchmail, then messages will arrive when fetchmail grabs > them, so maybe the 15 second difference occurs only because you are fetching > from gmail 15 seconds before you fetch from laposte. Of course. I wrote that to prove that the extra copy is not delivered locally, but actually comes from outside. It would be fine to have the time in the fetmail log (the -v flag give too much lines, and can be used only for a very limited period) -- Pierre Frenkiel From alpine at benizi.com Wed Nov 23 06:17:49 2011 From: alpine at benizi.com (Benjamin R. Haskell) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_=5BAlpine-info=5D_problem_with_the_gmail_smtp-server=C3=97?= In-Reply-To: References: <4ECBB918.6010008@nephros.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Nov 2011, Pierre Frenkiel wrote: > On Tue, 22 Nov 2011, Benjamin R. Haskell wrote: > > If you don't trim the 1st line, that becomes: > > On Tue, 22 Nov 2011, pierre.frenkiel@gmail.com wrote: > >> On Tue, 22 Nov 2011, Mike Miller wrote: >> . . . . . . >> Benjamin wrote: >> It's a feature. AFAIK, there's no way to disable it. >> but according your experience, that's not true. > > and then it's perfectly clear that I'm replying to Mike[...] Actually, it's perfectly unclear. If you quote a line from Benjamin's email, and Benjamin is one of the recipients of your message (via the list), and then write: but according your experience It doesn't matter that you're responding to or previously quoted Mike, "your" in that context means "Benjamin's". At least now I understand what you intended. You didn't answer my other question (unless you changed the 'Subject:' again...): > Have you recently added any filters on your own addresses? I've > noticed in the past that messages that hit the 'Never send to Spam' > action or which get tagged with a label according to a filter often > appear in my Inbox, even if I'm the sender. -- Best, Ben From peale at physics.ucsb.edu Wed Nov 23 07:58:55 2011 From: peale at physics.ucsb.edu (Stan Peale) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] links contained in forwarded emails. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mike, Thanks for the clarification. The trouble I find with bounce, is that I cannot add a message to the forwarded email. I must necessarily send a separate email to warn the recipient that the bounced message is from me. Stan On Wed, 23 Nov 2011, Mike Miller wrote: > On Tue, 22 Nov 2011, Joshua Miller wrote: > >> When replying in alpine, the message sent is just a text/plain message. The >> URL's will probably be included, but may not be present if the user replied >> to the text/html part and the link text wasn't the URL (ex. at google). In any case, it won't be an active >> html anchor that is sent from alpine, cause it's all just text/plain. >> >> Without more details, that'd be my guess. And if that's right, then there's >> not much that can be done about that at this time. > > > OK. I think I see what the problem is. When I forward a message, I would > like for all of the attachments to be included, but I think it isn't possible > to forward a message including the alternative HTML version of the text. > Here's a typical message: > > ALPINE 2.00 ATTACHMENT INDEX saved-messages > 1.1 ~51 lines Text/PLAIN (charset: Windows-1252) > 1.2 ~101 lines Text/HTML (charset: Windows-1252) > 2 151 bytes Image/GIF (Name: "Blank Bkgrd.gif") > > While viewing the message, if I hit F for forward, it will forward only > attachment 1.1, the plain text, unless I have used A to show the HTML, then it > will convert the HTML to text and forward that. In both cases it will > automatically attach attachment 2, the GIF image. Attached HTML files get > treated like PDF or MS-Word or any other attched file -- they are forwarded -- > it is only when the HTML is the alternate form of the text that it is dropped > by Alpine. > > I think this is the problem Stan is talking about. > > I have dealt with this in three different ways. > > (1) using bounce. I don't like that because some people will not realize that > I bounced it to them. When I want them to know, I don't use bounce, or I warn > them about it in advance. > > (2) using H to display header, then F to forward. It will ask if you want to > forward the message as a MIME digest. Say yes and it will attach the entire > message. When you receive a message sent that way, you can save the email > attachment and you will have the entire message. > > (3) save the HTML as a file, then attach it by hand. > > > It would be nice if Alpine allowed us to forward the alternative HTML as an > attachment. For some messages the HTML is nicely formatted and it should not > be dumped. > > > I like plain text messages. Most HTML formatting is not very helpful and the > information could have been encoded just as well in plain text. As we all > know, not everyone has our skills or shares our values and they aren't going > to just start doing what we want. When I receive a message with nice HTML and > messy text, I want to forward the HTML and I want it to be easy to do that. > > Mike > _______________________________________________ > Alpine-info mailing list > Alpine-info@u.washington.edu > http://mailman13.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/alpine-info > From mats at dufberg.se Wed Nov 23 09:02:46 2011 From: mats at dufberg.se (Mats Dufberg) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] links contained in forwarded emails. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On nov 23, 2011, 07:58 (-0800) Stan Peale wrote: > Thanks for the clarification. The trouble I find with bounce, is that I > cannot add a message to the forwarded email. I must necessarily send a > separate email to warn the recipient that the bounced message is from > me. Yes, that is a limitation with bounce. Another possibility is to forward as an included message, which means that the forwarded message is included like a file. If you forward more than one email message at a time (first select, say, two messages and then "apply", "forward") then you have the option of forwarding as an included message. Or you can choose to include as an attachment every time: [ ] Forward messages as attachments But then you do not have the choice to include in the traditional way. Pine/Alpine has some limitations and there is no development anymore... Mats ----------------------------------------------------------------- | Mats Dufberg mats@dufberg.se | | Granskogsv?gen 6 | | SE-16575 H?sselby, Sweden +46-70-258 2588 | ----------------------------------------------------------------- From peale at physics.ucsb.edu Wed Nov 23 09:40:41 2011 From: peale at physics.ucsb.edu (Stan Peale) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] links contained in forwarded emails. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mats, I forward messages containing links seldom enough that bounce with an additional email message will probably work ok for me. Alpine has its limitations, but now with the link problem and viewing urls with a click solved, it is working pretty well for me. Thanks for showing me how to forward links using bounce. Stan On Wed, 23 Nov 2011, Mats Dufberg wrote: > On nov 23, 2011, 07:58 (-0800) Stan Peale wrote: > >> Thanks for the clarification. The trouble I find with bounce, is that I >> cannot add a message to the forwarded email. I must necessarily send a >> separate email to warn the recipient that the bounced message is from >> me. > > Yes, that is a limitation with bounce. Another possibility is to forward > as an included message, which means that the forwarded message is included > like a file. > > If you forward more than one email message at a time (first select, say, > two messages and then "apply", "forward") then you have the option of > forwarding as an included message. > > Or you can choose to include as an attachment every time: > > [ ] Forward messages as attachments > > But then you do not have the choice to include in the traditional way. > > > Pine/Alpine has some limitations and there is no development anymore... > > > > Mats > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > | Mats Dufberg mats@dufberg.se | > | Granskogsv?gen 6 | > | SE-16575 H?sselby, Sweden +46-70-258 2588 | > ----------------------------------------------------------------- From pierre.frenkiel at gmail.com Wed Nov 23 09:56:40 2011 From: pierre.frenkiel at gmail.com (Pierre Frenkiel) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] problem with the gmail smtp-server In-Reply-To: References: <4ECBB918.6010008@nephros.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Nov 2011, Benjamin R. Haskell wrote: > > Actually, it's perfectly unclear. If you quote a line from Benjamin's email, > and Benjamin is one of the recipients of your message (via the list), and > . . . forgive me if I am a little more pedantic (and hopefully more clear) In pine, each line of quoted text begins (by default) with "> " and the text of the guy who replies has no ">" If you have 2 levels of quoting, the lines of the 2nd post begin with "> > " and the text of the guy who replies to this post has 1 ">" for example If I reply to XXX, my mail will look like: On Wed, 23 Nov 2011, XXX wrote: > written by XXX > written by XXX line1 written by me reply to XXX line2 written by me reply to XXX YYY wrote written by me reply to XXX (this line IS NOT quotedd) line4 written by me reply to XXX line5 written by me reply to XXX the last 5 lines have no "> ", and are then are my reply to XXX on the contrary, an other possibility is: On Wed, 23 Nov 2011, XXX wrote: > written by XXX > written by XXX written by me reply to XXX written by me reply to XXX > On Wed, 23 Nov 2011, YYY wrote: (this line IS quoted) > > written by YYY > > written by YYY > written by XXX reply to YYY > written by XXX reply to YYY written by me reply to XXX written by me reply to XXX > Have you recently added any filters on your own addresses? I've noticed in > the past that messages that hit the 'Never send to Spam' action or which > get tagged with a label according to a filter often appear in my Inbox, > even if I'm the sender. You are perfectly right: I had a filter "Never send to Spam" for my own address, and I noticed that all mails I sent had a tag "Inbox" in the "Sent Mail" view, and were copied to Inbox. Removing this filter solved the problem. That explains why some people (like Mike) didn't had this problem. Even if we disagreed about quoting, I found your information was very helpful. Thanks a lot. -- Pierre Frenkiel From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Wed Nov 23 10:16:26 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Re: In-Reply-To: References: <4ECBB918.6010008@nephros.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Nov 2011, Pierre Frenkiel wrote: > On Tue, 22 Nov 2011, Mike Miller wrote: > >> Do you have to use imap with fetchmail? > yes, I'm using IMAP. At last, instead of that google mess, > I found an other smtp server with which I have no problem. I've heard that Google IMAP is not true IMAP, or something along those lines. When I ask if you "have to" use imap, I mean "must you use imap?" so your answer that you currently use it is answering a different question. Another way to put it is, "why don't you stop using imap and start using pop to access Gmail via fetchmail?" I am doing that and I am not having your problem. In fact, it is possible that I am using pop to avoid that very problem. I don't remember now how I made the decision three years ago to use pop instead of imap with gmail. >> If you are using fetchmail, then messages will arrive when fetchmail grabs >> them, so maybe the 15 second difference occurs only because you are >> fetching from gmail 15 seconds before you fetch from laposte. > Of course. I wrote that to prove that the extra copy is not > delivered locally, but actually comes from outside. > It would be fine to have the time in the fetmail log > (the -v flag give too much lines, and can be used only for a very limited > period) I think the way to understand your problem is that fetchmail is retrieving messages that you don't want it to retrieve. I can't help you with laposte, but with gmail I know that using POP with the settings I sent earlier does not retrieve the messages I sent from Alpine, but it does retrieve the messages I sent from the Gmail web interface -- the perfect solution, if you ask me, so I'm not sure why you don't want to try it. Mike From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Wed Nov 23 10:31:22 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] problem with the gmail smtp-server In-Reply-To: References: <4ECBB918.6010008@nephros.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Nov 2011, Pierre Frenkiel wrote: > On Wed, 23 Nov 2011, Benjamin R. Haskell wrote: > >> Have you recently added any filters on your own addresses? I've >> noticed in the past that messages that hit the 'Never send to Spam' >> action or which get tagged with a label according to a filter often >> appear in my Inbox, even if I'm the sender. > > You are perfectly right: > I had a filter "Never send to Spam" for my own address, and I noticed that > all mails I sent had a tag "Inbox" in the "Sent Mail" view, and were > copied to Inbox. > Removing this filter solved the problem. > That explains why some people (like Mike) didn't had this problem. > Even if we disagreed about quoting, I found your information was very helpful. > Thanks a lot. I think I understand -- fetchmail downloads only from Gmail's Inbox, so I must have made sure that my messages from Alpine weren't going into the Inbox. But ... fetchmail does grab messages that I sent from Gmail's web interface, which I guess are in Sent-Mail on Gmail. I'm not sure how that works, but I like what it's doing. Sometimes I don't have access to my Ubuntu machine that runs Alpine (e.g., last week our network was down for awhile), so I have to use Gmail's web interface for a bit. Later, when I run fetchmail again, it grabs all of the messages I sent along with all of the messages I received and procmail filters everything as desired. Mike From lucio at lambrate.inaf.it Thu Nov 24 02:21:19 2011 From: lucio at lambrate.inaf.it (Lucio Chiappetti) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] links contained in forwarded emails. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >> When replying in alpine, the message sent is just a text/plain message. > OK. I think I see what the problem is. When I forward a message, I > would like for all of the attachments to be included maybe the following options in .pinerc can be of some interest also [ ] Forward messages as attachments [ ] Include Attachments in Reply [ ] Fcc Does Not Include Attachments From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Thu Nov 24 16:52:44 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] links contained in forwarded emails. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Nov 2011, Lucio Chiappetti wrote: >>> When replying in alpine, the message sent is just a text/plain message. > >> OK. I think I see what the problem is. When I forward a message, I >> would like for all of the attachments to be included > > maybe the following options in .pinerc can be of some interest also > > [ ] Forward messages as attachments > [ ] Include Attachments in Reply > [ ] Fcc Does Not Include Attachments What is needed is this: [ ] Include All Attachments in Forward "All" would include the HTML version of the message body. Mike From lucio at lambrate.inaf.it Fri Nov 25 01:18:18 2011 From: lucio at lambrate.inaf.it (Lucio Chiappetti) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] links contained in forwarded emails. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Nov 2011, Mike Miller wrote: > On Thu, 24 Nov 2011, Lucio Chiappetti wrote: >> maybe the following options in .pinerc can be of some interest also >> [ ] Forward messages as attachments >> [ ] Include Attachments in Reply > > What is needed is this: > [ ] Include All Attachments in Forward This option does not exist in my alpine 2.00 .pinerc, so I'm assuming you are NOT pointing to existing .pinerc solutions, but to a WISHLIST for a new feature (or patch ?) Considered that development of alpine is dead, the request is (unfortunately) rather academic ... > "All" would include the HTML version of the message body. Considered that myself I am an HTML-mail hater, and get rid of it asap (http://sax.iasf-milano.inaf.it/~lucio/Procmail/noquotenohtml.html) I surely do not regard that as a top priority. Just a personal opinion. From pierre.frenkiel at gmail.com Fri Nov 25 02:34:40 2011 From: pierre.frenkiel at gmail.com (Pierre Frenkiel) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] links contained in forwarded emails. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Nov 2011, Mike Miller wrote: > What is needed is this: > > [ ] Include All Attachments in Forward I don't have this option in my alpine (version 2.0) What version are you using? -- Pierre Frenkiel From peale at physics.ucsb.edu Fri Nov 25 10:01:21 2011 From: peale at physics.ucsb.edu (Stan Peale) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] links contained in forwarded emails. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mike, I had looked for this option [ ] Include All Attachments in Forward in the Alpine configuration earlier, but do not find it in my CONFIG file. Should it be there or was it just your statement that it should be? Can it be inserted into the CONFIG file by hand? Stan On Thu, 24 Nov 2011, Mike Miller wrote: > On Thu, 24 Nov 2011, Lucio Chiappetti wrote: > >>>> When replying in alpine, the message sent is just a text/plain message. >> >>> OK. I think I see what the problem is. When I forward a message, I would >>> like for all of the attachments to be included >> >> maybe the following options in .pinerc can be of some interest also >> >> [ ] Forward messages as attachments >> [ ] Include Attachments in Reply >> [ ] Fcc Does Not Include Attachments > > > What is needed is this: > > [ ] Include All Attachments in Forward > > "All" would include the HTML version of the message body. > > Mike > _______________________________________________ > Alpine-info mailing list > Alpine-info@u.washington.edu > http://mailman13.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/alpine-info > From alpine at benizi.com Fri Nov 25 10:46:03 2011 From: alpine at benizi.com (Benjamin R. Haskell) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] links contained in forwarded emails. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Nov 2011, Lucio Chiappetti wrote: > Considered that development of alpine is dead, the request is > (unfortunately) rather academic ... Not wholly dead. Re-alpine still exists. It would be nice if there were more frequent releases. Eep. And the last release was over a year ago. Generally the only things that will ever get fixed/added are things that requesters can fix/implement themselves. -- Best, Ben From alpine at benizi.com Fri Nov 25 10:49:40 2011 From: alpine at benizi.com (Benjamin R. Haskell) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] links contained in forwarded emails. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Nov 2011, Pierre Frenkiel wrote: > I don't have this option in my alpine (version 2.0) > What version are you using? The latest release of Alpine is version 2.02, thanks to the re-alpine project (which picked up development after UW support ended): http://sourceforge.net/projects/re-alpine/files/ -- Best, Ben From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Fri Nov 25 12:51:01 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] links contained in forwarded emails. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Nov 2011, Lucio Chiappetti wrote: > On Thu, 24 Nov 2011, Mike Miller wrote: >> On Thu, 24 Nov 2011, Lucio Chiappetti wrote: > >>> maybe the following options in .pinerc can be of some interest also >>> [ ] Forward messages as attachments >>> [ ] Include Attachments in Reply >> >> What is needed is this: >> [ ] Include All Attachments in Forward > > This option does not exist in my alpine 2.00 .pinerc, so I'm assuming > you are NOT pointing to existing .pinerc solutions, but to a WISHLIST > for a new feature (or patch ?) Right. I thought that was clear. > Considered that development of alpine is dead, the request is > (unfortunately) rather academic ... > >> "All" would include the HTML version of the message body. > > Considered that myself I am an HTML-mail hater, and get rid of it asap > (http://sax.iasf-milano.inaf.it/~lucio/Procmail/noquotenohtml.html) I > surely do not regard that as a top priority. Just a personal opinion. I regard your statement as a personal opinion, but mine as a top priority. Right? Do you understand that? I guess I'm just more reasonable and logical and less hateful than you are. This thread was started by a guy who wanted to forward messages so that the recipient would see what he had seen. That seems like a reasonable idea. In fact, I would say that it is quite odd that Alpine simply cannot do that with ordinary forwarding. I gave a list in a previous message of three ways to "forward" that HTML attachment, none of which were as good for Alpine users as the (currently nonexistent) "Include All Attachments in Forward" idea I presented above. Whether Alpine development is dead depends on whether there will ever exist a competent programmer anywhere on this planet who feels like doing something with it. Because such a person might someday exist, I do not assume that it is not worth presenting ideas for future development, but even if it is all in vain, I don't care, and I am doing it anyway. Mike From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Fri Nov 25 12:52:44 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] links contained in forwarded emails. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Nov 2011, Pierre Frenkiel wrote: > On Thu, 24 Nov 2011, Mike Miller wrote: > >> What is needed is this: >> >> [ ] Include All Attachments in Forward > > I don't have this option in my alpine (version 2.0) > What version are you using? It does not exist. I was saying that we need it, but we don't have it. Lucio had listed all of the ones we have for dealing with attachments, but none of them do what was desired. Mike From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Fri Nov 25 12:56:25 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] links contained in forwarded emails. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Nov 2011, Stan Peale wrote: > I had looked for this option > > [ ] Include All Attachments in Forward > > in the Alpine configuration earlier, but do not find it in my CONFIG > file. Should it be there or was it just your statement that it should > be? Can it be inserted into the CONFIG file by hand? I guess I was *very* unclear. It is a nonexistent option that we need. Mike From geofft at ldpreload.com Fri Nov 25 18:22:21 2011 From: geofft at ldpreload.com (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] links contained in forwarded emails. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Nov 2011, Mike Miller wrote: > On Fri, 25 Nov 2011, Lucio Chiappetti wrote: > >> On Thu, 24 Nov 2011, Mike Miller wrote: >>> What is needed is this: >>> [ ] Include All Attachments in Forward >> >> This option does not exist in my alpine 2.00 .pinerc, so I'm assuming you >> are NOT pointing to existing .pinerc solutions, but to a WISHLIST for a new >> feature (or patch ?) > > Right. I thought that was clear. Yeah, I understood it as a wishlist request, but I admit that I haven't quite figured out what you're proposing. As best as I can tell, you want to keep doing what is currently being done by quoting the text version of the message in the composer window after "--Forwarded message--", but _also_ include the HTML version of the message? I'm not sure how to do this, and for either of the two approaches I see, I'm not convinced this will cause anyone's mail reader to do anything reasonable. Unfortunately, the HTML version of the message is an "alternative", not an attachment. MIME supports specifying multiple parts in different ways: the relevant ones are "multipart/mixed", which indicates a message and its attachments, and "multipart/alternative", which indicates multiple representations of the same content. In particular, your average HTML mail with an attachment looks something like this, hierarchically: multipart/mixed \--multipart/alternative | \--text/plain | Hi... | \--text/html |

Hi...

\--application/pdf %PDF... So, there are two ways to implement "Include All Parts In Forward" (you really mean "parts", we already include all attachments in forward but ignore any alternatives), both poor. The first is to make the HTML part look like an attachment: multipart/mixed \--text/plain | Read this. --Forwarded message-- From: ... Hi... \--text/html |

Hi...

\--application/pdf %PDF... The second is to keep the HTML part as an alternative, but not include any of the additional text you might enter when forwarding the mail, or the text copy of the headers: multipart/mixed \--multipart-alternative | \--text/plain | | Read this. --Forwarded message-- From: ... Hi... | \--text/html |

Hi...

\--application/pdf %PDF This will, of course, cause any mail client capable of reading HTML mail and preferring HTML mail (which includes alpine unless "Prefer Plain Text" is checked...) to show the original message's content with the new message's headers, which is clearly not okay. As far as I can tell, the "right" answer would be to insert the new message and the "Forwarded message" line and headers in front of the HTML part. But apart from that being technically hard, it also prevents you from editing the HTML part. Imagine that you're forwarding part of a message, but need to redact some private info... either you'd be unable to, or you'd falsely believe that you can edit the text/plain part but the full message is still in the text/html part. Assuming that being unable to edit the message is fine, is "Forward message as an attachment" (which you can either set globally, as previously discussed, or trigger for a particular message by pressing "h" before "f") not good enough for this scenario? Alternatively, if I've missed a reasonable approach to doing this, or have misunderstood the feature request, please let me know... (What do mail clients tend to do if you put a multipart/mixed _inside_ a multipart/alternative, and is that helpful?) >> Considered that development of alpine is dead, the request is >> (unfortunately) rather academic ... > > Whether Alpine development is dead depends on whether there will ever exist a > competent programmer anywhere on this planet who feels like doing something > with it. Because such a person might someday exist, I do not assume that it > is not worth presenting ideas for future development, but even if it is all > in vain, I don't care, and I am doing it anyway. Please file bug reports in the Re-Alpine bug tracker -- the nice thing about public bug trackers and public development processes is that someone can wander along and decide that alpine hacking is interesting and get involved. The recent bugs and traffic on the lists are helpful for people to make that decision and decide there are still _users_ who care about alpine. :) -- Geoffrey Thomas http://ldpreload.com geofft@ldpreload.com From unrtst at gmail.com Fri Nov 25 21:52:58 2011 From: unrtst at gmail.com (Joshua Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] links contained in forwarded emails. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: warning: I'm not good at non-top-posting. Too much dealing with typical MS outlook users. Lot's of the reply are relative to the response, so I'm keeping most of it. Sorry to those who prefer greatly edited/abridged versions. On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 9:22 PM, Geoffrey Thomas wrote: > On Fri, 25 Nov 2011, Mike Miller wrote: > > On Fri, 25 Nov 2011, Lucio Chiappetti wrote: >> >> On Thu, 24 Nov 2011, Mike Miller wrote: >>> >>>> What is needed is this: >>>> [ ] Include All Attachments in Forward >>>> >>> >>> This option does not exist in my alpine 2.00 .pinerc, so I'm assuming >>> you are NOT pointing to existing .pinerc solutions, but to a WISHLIST for a >>> new feature (or patch ?) >>> >> >> Right. I thought that was clear. >> > > Yeah, I understood it as a wishlist request, but I admit that I haven't > quite figured out what you're proposing. As best as I can tell, you want to > keep doing what is currently being done by quoting the text version of the > message in the composer window after "--Forwarded message--", but _also_ > include the HTML version of the message? I'm not sure how to do this, and > for either of the two approaches I see, I'm not convinced this will cause > anyone's mail reader to do anything reasonable. > > Unfortunately, the HTML version of the message is an "alternative", not an > attachment. MIME supports specifying multiple parts in different ways: the > relevant ones are "multipart/mixed", which indicates a message and its > attachments, and "multipart/alternative", which indicates multiple > representations of the same content. In particular, your average HTML mail > with an attachment looks something like this, hierarchically: > > multipart/mixed > \--multipart/alternative > | \--text/plain > | Hi... > | \--text/html > |

Hi...

> \--application/pdf > %PDF... > > So, there are two ways to implement "Include All Parts In Forward" (you > really mean "parts", we already include all attachments in forward but > ignore any alternatives), both poor. False dichotomy. Have you even looked at the emails a modern GUI email client sends? Neither of your approaches are what is the norm (argue about what is "right" until you're blue in the face, but there is a norm, and these two approaches are not it.... neither is what alpine does). > The first is to make the HTML part look like an attachment: > > multipart/mixed > \--text/plain > | Read this. --Forwarded message-- From: ... Hi... > \--text/html > |

Hi...

> \--application/pdf > %PDF... > > The second is to keep the HTML part as an alternative, but not include any > of the additional text you might enter when forwarding the mail, or the > text copy of the headers: > > multipart/mixed > \--multipart-alternative > | \--text/plain > | | Read this. --Forwarded message-- From: ... Hi... > | \--text/html > |

Hi...

> \--application/pdf > %PDF > > And the third (of many) is to follow the norm. I brought this up earlier in the thread as a tangent to the orig discussion. Alpine already has the means to translate an html part to plain text (view html part, with limited functionality). It also has the means to fire off an alternative editor. It lacks the wrapping up of those built in features to make something that would send either an HTML part, or a multipart/mixed based on the HTML and alpine-rendered text doc. That, IMO, is the missing and correct option. > This will, of course, cause any mail client capable of reading HTML mail > and preferring HTML mail (which includes alpine unless "Prefer Plain Text" > is checked...) to show the original message's content with the new > message's headers, which is clearly not okay. > > As far as I can tell, the "right" answer would be to insert the new > message and the "Forwarded message" line and headers in front of the HTML > part. But apart from that being technically hard, it also prevents you from > editing the HTML part. Imagine that you're forwarding part of a message, > but need to redact some private info... either you'd be unable to, or you'd > falsely believe that you can edit the text/plain part but the full message > is still in the text/html part. > If alpine had an option to enable something like prefer-multipart-alternative, then this wouldn't matter. That option could easily have exclusions based on message type (if it's a new message, you may prefer plain text; if its' a reply, have rules to allow the choice; if it's a forward, have a rule to force multipart-alternative and treat the editor as html). > > Assuming that being unable to edit the message is fine, is "Forward > message as an attachment" (which you can either set globally, as previously > discussed, or trigger for a particular message by pressing "h" before "f") > not good enough for this scenario? > > Alternatively, if I've missed a reasonable approach to doing this, or have > misunderstood the feature request, please let me know... (What do mail > clients tend to do if you put a multipart/mixed _inside_ a > multipart/alternative, and is that helpful?) > > Look at any message from anyone non-alpine and non-mutt (etc). Let's take thunderbird as an example... It DOES allow an alpine-like behavior. If you force all created messages to be plain text and prefer plain text viewing, then it behaves *almost* just like alpine (the minor diffs aren't worth mentioning). However, the norm and default is to edit messages as HTML, and prefer HTML for replies and forwards. When doing so, it generates the plain text part from the HTML part (including any edits you do to the HTML part), and sends as multipart/alternative. > Considered that development of alpine is dead, the request is >>> (unfortunately) rather academic ... >>> >> >> Whether Alpine development is dead depends on whether there will ever >> exist a competent programmer anywhere on this planet who feels like doing >> something with it. Because such a person might someday exist, I do not >> assume that it is not worth presenting ideas for future development, but >> even if it is all in vain, I don't care, and I am doing it anyway. >> > > Please file bug reports in the Re-Alpine bug tracker -- the nice thing > about public bug trackers and public development processes is that someone > can wander along and decide that alpine hacking is interesting and get > involved. The recent bugs and traffic on the lists are helpful for people > to make that decision and decide there are still _users_ who care about > alpine. :) 100% agree. At some point, I'd personally love to be part the development of the next alpine version. My lack of current involvement has little to do with desire or competency, but the barrier to entry. I have time, but not enough to figure out what's what by myself.... at least not right now. Personally, I'd like to see some very formalized feature requests (outline exactly what to add, what menus and where, and what should happen, and what new config options to add, etc), and also somebody to organize those into milestones or some sort of hopeful features for the next release. Bug reports are a good start, but really put some effort into them if you want some results (and expect none, cause no one AFAICT is actively working on the codebase). If any work starts to be done, maybe that work will reveal how changes can/should be made and help other developers like myself get a feel for the codebase. Changesets are good in that way. Anyway... I'm back to saying I think the answer lies in support for creating and sending multipart/alternative messages (of text/plain and text/html). This can simply be some flag that says what one is editing is HTML - no need for a built in WYSIWYG editor (allow them to use alternative editors for that), and then use alpines built in HTML rendering (or, via option, an external filter, such as w3m -dump) to make the text/plain part. Alpine would have to recognize the new header (multipart/alternative) and respect it. That *should* solve the forwarding problem, and add a very handy feature. -- Josh I. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chappa at gmx.com Fri Nov 25 22:38:44 2011 From: chappa at gmx.com (Eduardo Chappa) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] links contained in forwarded emails. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Nov 2011, Stan Peale wrote: :) Has anyone thought more about how I can keep the links active in :) forwarded emails from alpine. Now the links are stripped from all :) emails that I forward. The problem in this case is quite deep. When a message is of type text/html (with no alternative part), the links that are included in the message can be clicked when the message is read, but are lost in the forwarded message. Only the clickable text is included with no signal that the original message contained a clicable link at that point. I see two solutions to this problem. * Pico learns how to edit html files, or * Alpine includes a list of links, as the output of "lynx --dump" does. The first solution (the best in my opinion) is a big project. The second solution is much easier. I already coded that. If anyone wants to test it before I release it, please let me know. The second solution could also be accomplished by means of a display filter. That is not hard to do; however, that might not be the best solution, because it makes Alpine depend on external programs, and moreover, lynx and Alpine showed the same problem with a similar malformed html message, so it was not a true solution either, and would not add clickable links in the text message (at the time when the message is being read). Hopefully this explains the real problem more clearly. -- Eduardo http://patches.freeiz.com/alpine/ From geofft at ldpreload.com Fri Nov 25 22:49:02 2011 From: geofft at ldpreload.com (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] links contained in forwarded emails. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, 26 Nov 2011, Joshua Miller wrote: > Anyway... I'm back to saying I think the answer lies in support for > creating and sending multipart/alternative messages (of text/plain and > text/html). This can simply be some flag that says what one is editing > is HTML - no need for a built in WYSIWYG editor (allow them to use > alternative editors for that), and then use alpines built in HTML > rendering (or, via option, an external filter, such as w3m -dump) to > make the text/plain part. Alpine would have to recognize the new header > (multipart/alternative) and respect it. That *should* solve the > forwarding problem, and add a very handy feature. So are you proposing that, in the absence of an external editor, the composer window should show raw HTML? While you're right about editing the HTML and rendering that down to plain text being the "right" approach, given alpine's constraint as a terminal-based editor, that seems close to unusable: the HTML being forwarded is often going to be pretty horrendous. For the example I gave, redacting some private info or a paragraph you don't want to forward, it seems difficult to believe that anyone's going to be able to find that info, let alone edit the HTML and keep it formatting properly (avoid forgetting some close tag, etc.). This is why I'd dismissed the possibility out of hand, and assumed that the composer was only ever going to do plain text for us. Sorry for not being clear on that point. As Eduardo just mentioned, the composer becoming a rich HTML editor is also an option, but seems infeasible. I also think that it's not particularly useful to have a feature that more or less requires an external editor to be useful, but maybe it is? To be honest, I'm not even sure what external editor I would use for this -- I can't think of either a command-line or GUI program that's good at quick HTML editing in this way and would be less painful to use than just using e.g. Thunderbird. -- Geoffrey Thomas http://ldpreload.com geofft@ldpreload.com From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Sat Nov 26 01:19:50 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] links contained in forwarded emails. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: My idea was a little different than what Goeffrey, Joshua and Eduardo have been discussing. I would just want the alternative HTML of the message being forwarded to be included as an attachment (multipart) of the forwarded message, not as an alternative form of the message body. To achieve that with Alpine as it is, I have to view the attachments, save the HTML to a file, initiate forwarding of the message, then attach the HTML to the message before sending. Why not make it an option to have that happen automatically whenever a message is forwarded? Is there something wrong with that idea? Mike On Sat, 26 Nov 2011, Geoffrey Thomas wrote: > On Sat, 26 Nov 2011, Joshua Miller wrote: > >> Anyway... I'm back to saying I think the answer lies in support for >> creating and sending multipart/alternative messages (of text/plain and >> text/html). This can simply be some flag that says what one is editing is >> HTML - no need for a built in WYSIWYG editor (allow them to use alternative >> editors for that), and then use alpines built in HTML rendering (or, via >> option, an external filter, such as w3m -dump) to make the text/plain part. >> Alpine would have to recognize the new header (multipart/alternative) and >> respect it. That *should* solve the forwarding problem, and add a very >> handy feature. > > So are you proposing that, in the absence of an external editor, the composer > window should show raw HTML? > > While you're right about editing the HTML and rendering that down to plain > text being the "right" approach, given alpine's constraint as a > terminal-based editor, that seems close to unusable: the HTML being forwarded > is often going to be pretty horrendous. For the example I gave, redacting > some private info or a paragraph you don't want to forward, it seems > difficult to believe that anyone's going to be able to find that info, let > alone edit the HTML and keep it formatting properly (avoid forgetting some > close tag, etc.). > > This is why I'd dismissed the possibility out of hand, and assumed that the > composer was only ever going to do plain text for us. Sorry for not being > clear on that point. As Eduardo just mentioned, the composer becoming a rich > HTML editor is also an option, but seems infeasible. > > I also think that it's not particularly useful to have a feature that more or > less requires an external editor to be useful, but maybe it is? To be honest, > I'm not even sure what external editor I would use for this -- I can't think > of either a command-line or GUI program that's good at quick HTML editing in > this way and would be less painful to use than just using e.g. Thunderbird. > > -- > Geoffrey Thomas > http://ldpreload.com > geofft@ldpreload.com > From geofft at ldpreload.com Sat Nov 26 01:35:56 2011 From: geofft at ldpreload.com (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] links contained in forwarded emails. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That sounds rather like "Forward message as an attachment", does it not? As I mentioned, you can either do this for a single message by pressing H (full headers) before F (forward), or set it globally under Reply Preferences. If you forward the HTML part as an attachment, then it'll have to be viewed in a web browser (with all the associated security issues of running a web browser). In addition, if you continue to show the forwarded text part in the composer window, you run into the scenario I described, where it seems like you've deleted some sensitive information but actually you haven't. On the other hand, "Forward message as an attachment" should let a mail client view the message within the mail client itself (alpine handles this just fine, and I believe so do e.g. Outlook and Thunderbird), and don't risk you believing that you can modify the message. Does this not suit your needs? To be clear, saying "multipart" by itself means little, and alpine's UI makes this more confusing than it should by showing all "multipart" parts in the same list. The plain text and HTML you are seeing are inside "multipart/alternative" (these are the things that pressing A will let you move between). Attachments are in "multipart/mixed". The HTML is not in that sense an attachment as you see it, but you're proposing to make it an attachment -- this seems like not what a recipient would expect, which is why I was proposing ideas to make the HTML part remain an alternative, and not an attachment. -- Geoffrey Thomas http://ldpreload.com geofft@ldpreload.com On Sat, 26 Nov 2011, Mike Miller wrote: > My idea was a little different than what Goeffrey, Joshua and Eduardo have > been discussing. I would just want the alternative HTML of the message being > forwarded to be included as an attachment (multipart) of the forwarded > message, not as an alternative form of the message body. > > To achieve that with Alpine as it is, I have to view the attachments, save > the HTML to a file, initiate forwarding of the message, then attach the HTML > to the message before sending. Why not make it an option to have that happen > automatically whenever a message is forwarded? > > Is there something wrong with that idea? > > Mike From jtwdyp at ttlc.net Sat Nov 26 04:27:38 2011 From: jtwdyp at ttlc.net (Joe(theWordy)Philbrook) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Re: links contained in forwarded emails. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It would appear that on Nov 23, Mike Miller did say: > Here's a typical message: > > ALPINE 2.00 ATTACHMENT INDEX saved-messages > 1.1 ~51 lines Text/PLAIN (charset: Windows-1252) > 1.2 ~101 lines Text/HTML (charset: Windows-1252) > 2 151 bytes Image/GIF (Name: "Blank Bkgrd.gif") > > While viewing the message, if I hit F for forward, it will forward only > attachment 1.1, the plain text, unless I have used A to show the HTML, then it > will convert the HTML to text and forward that. In both cases it will > automatically attach attachment 2, the GIF image. Attached HTML files get > treated like PDF or MS-Word or any other attched file -- they are forwarded -- > it is only when the HTML is the alternate form of the text that it is dropped > by Alpine. > > I think this is the problem Stan is talking about. > > I have dealt with this in three different ways. > > (1) using bounce. I don't like that because some people will not realize that > I bounced it to them. When I want them to know, I don't use bounce, or I warn > them about it in advance. Pardon me for jumping into this discussion. But I find it interesting. And there's a point or two I'm not sure I understand... That said: About the bounce method, I also dislike it for the same reason you state. > (2) using H to display header, then F to forward. It will ask if you want to > forward the message as a MIME digest. Say yes and it will attach the entire > message. When you receive a message sent that way, you can save the email > attachment and you will have the entire message. I've done this, but I find it difficult to compose a reasonable comment for the forwarded message unless I'm looking at the forwarded text. {I have a similar problem composing a "reply" when alpine includes the quoted part as an attachment rather than embedding it's text in the composer window. I forget if that happens because of something like a detached gpg sig or what} ( Please see my reply to Geoffrey {below} ) > (3) save the HTML as a file, then attach it by hand. This method sounds ok. Though I have no idea why I never thought of it before. I also like the fact that this method would allow me to put something like "Original html message" in the 'Attachment comment:' Though to be honest, I'd much prefer the ability to somehow embed that inside the attachment. As most of the people I know who are slow enough on the uptake for me to want to bother with such a "comment" would most likely just open the attachment without bothering to notice comment. > It would be nice if Alpine allowed us to forward the alternative HTML as an > attachment. For some messages the HTML is nicely formatted and it should not > be dumped. Oh you mean choice #3 without the "by hand" part (and without needing to save it to the filesystem...)?? It would appear that on Nov 25, Geoffrey Thomas did say: > I admit that I haven't quite > figured out what you're proposing. As best as I can tell, you want to keep > doing what is currently being done by quoting the text version of the message > in the composer window after "--Forwarded message--", but _also_ include the > HTML version of the message? I'm not sure how to do this, and for either of > the two approaches I see, I'm not convinced this will cause anyone's mail > reader to do anything reasonable. > > Unfortunately, the HTML version of the message is an "alternative", not an > attachment. MIME supports specifying multiple parts in different ways: the > relevant ones are "multipart/mixed", which indicates a message and its > attachments, and "multipart/alternative", which indicates multiple > representations of the same content. In particular, your average HTML mail > with an attachment looks something like this, hierarchically: > > multipart/mixed > \--multipart/alternative > | \--text/plain > | Hi... > | \--text/html > |

Hi...

> \--application/pdf > %PDF... > > So, there are two ways to implement "Include All Parts In Forward" (you really > mean "parts", we already include all attachments in forward but ignore any > alternatives), both poor. The first is to make the HTML part look like an > attachment: > > multipart/mixed > \--text/plain > | Read this. --Forwarded message-- From: ... Hi... > \--text/html > |

Hi...

> \--application/pdf > %PDF... This sounds a lot like automating the effect of Mike's # (3) workaround. And I'm thinking the problem is that it might not be clear that the attached html is the forwarded message text, rather than something added by the forwarder??? > The second is to keep the HTML part as an alternative, but not include any of > the additional text you might enter when forwarding the mail, or the text copy > of the headers: > > multipart/mixed > \--multipart-alternative > | \--text/plain > | | Read this. --Forwarded message-- From: ... Hi... > | \--text/html > |

Hi...

> \--application/pdf > %PDF > > This will, of course, cause any mail client capable of reading HTML mail and > preferring HTML mail (which includes alpine unless "Prefer Plain Text" is > checked...) to show the original message's content with the new message's > headers, which is clearly not okay. Oh please God don't let them do it that way. With my luck I'd have a sarcastic comment about some viewpoint I'm "diametrically opposed to" And everyone that matters would wind up thinking "I" was the one who wrote the forwarded message itself. (Or do I misunderstand the problem?) > As far as I can tell, the "right" answer would be to insert the new message > and the "Forwarded message" line and headers in front of the HTML part. But > apart from that being technically hard, it also prevents you from editing the > HTML part. Imagine that you're forwarding part of a message, but need to > redact some private info... either you'd be unable to, or you'd falsely > believe that you can edit the text/plain part but the full message is still in > the text/html part. > > Assuming that being unable to edit the message is fine, is "Forward message as > an attachment" (which you can either set globally, as previously discussed, or > trigger for a particular message by pressing "h" before "f") not good enough > for this scenario? Actually, since you ask, there is something I surely do which was offered whenever "original" message(s) are included as attachment(s). And that is instead of being presented with something like this: Forward message as an attachment? Y Yes ^C Cancel N [No] Why can't it say something like: Forward message as an attachment? Y Yes B Both ^C Cancel N [No] Though I actually care about this more when alpine wants to include a quoted message as an attachment in a reply. ( I It's been a while since I bumped into it so I forget what actually triggers it. But I think it had something to do with some gpg like attached signature??) Either way My solution has often been to include the attachment and then use some workaround to also include the text in the composer. in the case of the Forwarded message (where there was an actual choice about including it as an attachment is to start the forward twice. The first time I say "no" to the above choice, (or more likely simply not being in header mode when I hit "F" to initiate the forwarding process). Then, using vim as an alternate editor, I can save the text to a file: :w! ~/tmp.txt ZZ ^C c Then start the forward again, (this time in header mode to get the above prompt where I'd select "yes".) Then when I get to the composer I'd read in the file "~/tmp.txt" And probably include a line about the below forwarded text also being attached in it's original form. Or sometimes (just sometimes) I'll use the text version of the forwarded message as a guide to compose my comments, then AFTER I think my comments are appropriate to the text, I might even delete it so that the attachment becomes the only included copy of the forwarded message once more. In the case of those annoying (though thankfully rare) cases where a reply is automatically included as an attachment it's a bit more difficult. As I wind up saving the original message to my "postponed-msgs" folder so that I can "edit" with my alternate editor where I manually insert some leading "> " characters before each line before I write the text to ~/tmp.txt. then I can trim the quoted text down to the parts I'm responding to, and insert my comments in the appropriate places. (Though usually in those cases. after I read the ~/tmp.txt file into the text body of the reply with the attached message (and correct In-Reply-To:) I most often then delete the attached version of the quoted text... But in both cases I sure wish alpine would let me choose "BOTH" without all this external manipulation. It would appear that on Nov 26, Geoffrey Thomas did say: > On Sat, 26 Nov 2011, Joshua Miller wrote: > > > Anyway... I'm back to saying I think the answer lies in support for creating > > and sending multipart/alternative messages (of text/plain and text/html). > > This can simply be some flag that says what one is editing is HTML - no need > > for a built in WYSIWYG editor (allow them to use alternative editors for > > that), and then use alpines built in HTML rendering (or, via option, an > > external filter, such as w3m -dump) to make the text/plain part. Alpine > > would have to recognize the new header (multipart/alternative) and respect > > it. That *should* solve the forwarding problem, and add a very handy > > feature. > > So are you proposing that, in the absence of an external editor, the composer > window should show raw HTML? You mean almost like it will if I start a reply in "header mode"? Well as long as replying via html is only a configurable option I'd be ok with it being there. > I also think that it's not particularly useful to have a feature that more or > less requires an external editor to be useful, but maybe it is? To be honest, > I'm not even sure what external editor I would use for this -- I can't think > of either a command-line or GUI program that's good at quick HTML editing in > this way and would be less painful to use than just using e.g. Thunderbird. Again, as long as it's an optional thing I'd be ok with the idea that finding a suitable external editor is up to the user. In my case I'd probably set the html editor to vim and probably just insert my comments right after the tag in the simplistic form of: 

*insert comments here*

---------- Forwarded message ----------
... Which, shouldn't mess up the html formatting too much, { if the original html looked good enough to want to include it in the first place that is... } Otherwise,given that were talking about alpine, I think I can safely assume that the ability to reply as plain text will always remain a viable option. -- | ~^~ ~^~ | <*> <*> Joe (theWordy) Philbrook | ^ J(tWdy)P | \___/ <> From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Sat Nov 26 11:58:04 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] links contained in forwarded emails. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, 26 Nov 2011, Geoffrey Thomas wrote: > That sounds rather like "Forward message as an attachment", does it not? No. Do you read my messages? Here is one that you seem to have forgotten -- it was a reply to a message of yours: http://mailman13.u.washington.edu/pipermail/alpine-info/2011-November/004474.html Unfortunately, the archive reformats the message with a Times-Roman font, so the spacing is messed up, but you can get the idea. > As I mentioned, you can either do this for a single message by pressing > H (full headers) before F (forward), or set it globally under Reply > Preferences. See my previous message at the link above. > If you forward the HTML part as an attachment, then it'll have to be viewed > in a web browser (with all the associated security issues of running a web > browser). Are you saying that people don't use web browsers? Outside of our Alpine community, I'll bet that half, at a minimum, of email users are reading mail in a browser. You seem to be stretching to find any excuse to dismiss my suggestion. > In addition, if you continue to show the forwarded text part in the > composer window, you run into the scenario I described, where it seems > like you've deleted some sensitive information but actually you haven't. I don't understand this. Your last couple of messages, which I read, do not use the words "delete" or "seem" so it's hard for me to find the relevant section. What you are saying seems wrong to me. If I forward a message with the plain text in the body and the original HTML as an attachment, then I haven't deleted anything, nor will I seem to have deleted anything. If, on the other hand, I use Alpine as it is currently functioning, the HTML will be deleted, and it might even seem to have been deleted. So the deletion occurs now and I am recommending that users be allowed to decide if that's what they want. > On the other hand, "Forward message as an attachment" should let a mail > client view the message within the mail client itself (alpine handles > this just fine, and I believe so do e.g. Outlook and Thunderbird), and > don't risk you believing that you can modify the message. Does this not > suit your needs? See previous messages. > To be clear, saying "multipart" by itself means little, and alpine's UI > makes this more confusing than it should by showing all "multipart" > parts in the same list. The plain text and HTML you are seeing are > inside "multipart/alternative" (these are the things that pressing A > will let you move between). Attachments are in "multipart/mixed". The > HTML is not in that sense an attachment as you see it, but you're > proposing to make it an attachment -- this seems like not what a > recipient would expect, which is why I was proposing ideas to make the > HTML part remain an alternative, and not an attachment. What are you proposing other than maintaining the status quo? Mike From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Sat Nov 26 13:16:54 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Re: links contained in forwarded emails. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, 26 Nov 2011, Joe(theWordy)Philbrook wrote: > It would appear that on Nov 23, Mike Miller did say: > >> I have dealt with this in three different ways. >> >> (1) using bounce. I don't like that because some people will not >> realize that I bounced it to them. When I want them to know, I don't >> use bounce, or I warn them about it in advance. > > Pardon me for jumping into this discussion. But I find it interesting. > And there's a point or two I'm not sure I understand... That said: About > the bounce method, I also dislike it for the same reason you state. Thanks for reading my message. >> (2) using H to display header, then F to forward. It will ask if you >> want to forward the message as a MIME digest. Say yes and it will >> attach the entire message. When you receive a message sent that way, >> you can save the email attachment and you will have the entire message. > > I've done this, but I find it difficult to compose a reasonable comment > for the forwarded message unless I'm looking at the forwarded text. Exactly. Me too. > {I have a similar problem composing a "reply" when alpine includes the > quoted part as an attachment rather than embedding it's text in the > composer window. I forget if that happens because of something like a > detached gpg sig or what} Yes, I've also had that problem and I'm also not sure of the conditions under which it happens. > ( Please see my reply to Geoffrey {below} ) > >> (3) save the HTML as a file, then attach it by hand. > > This method sounds ok. Though I have no idea why I never thought of it > before. I also like the fact that this method would allow me to put > something like "Original html message" in the 'Attachment comment:' > > Though to be honest, I'd much prefer the ability to somehow embed that > inside the attachment. As most of the people I know who are slow enough > on the uptake for me to want to bother with such a "comment" would most > likely just open the attachment without bothering to notice comment. Sure, but it is a *forwarded* message, so people might automatically suspect that the attachment also was forwarded. Even if they aren't told explicitly, they will be able to see that the HTML content is the same as the plain text content. This also happens with some PDF attachments or Word attachments that only repeat the message body using a superior format (here in academia a common scenario would be an announcement for a talk or a job opening where the text conveys the basic message and the attachment is suitable for posting on a bulletin board). >> It would be nice if Alpine allowed us to forward the alternative HTML >> as an attachment. For some messages the HTML is nicely formatted and >> it should not be dumped. > > Oh you mean choice #3 without the "by hand" part (and without needing to > save it to the filesystem...)?? Yes! You understand the idea and see how it differs from the available options. > Actually, since you ask, there is something I surely do which was > offered whenever "original" message(s) are included as attachment(s). > And that is instead of being presented with something like this: > > Forward message as an attachment? > Y Yes > ^C Cancel N [No] > > Why can't it say something like: > > Forward message as an attachment? > Y Yes B Both > ^C Cancel N [No] > > Though I actually care about this more when alpine wants to include a > quoted message as an attachment in a reply. ( I It's been a while since > I bumped into it so I forget what actually triggers it. But I think it > had something to do with some gpg like attached signature??) > > Either way My solution has often been to include the attachment and then > use some workaround to also include the text in the composer. That would work as long as you wanted to include all of the original message. > in the case of the Forwarded message (where there was an actual choice > about including it as an attachment is to start the forward twice. The > first time I say "no" to the above choice, (or more likely simply not > being in header mode when I hit "F" to initiate the forwarding process). > Then, using vim as an alternate editor, I can save the text to a file: > > :w! ~/tmp.txt > ZZ > ^C c > > Then start the forward again, (this time in header mode to get the above > prompt where I'd select "yes".) Apparently a lot of us are coming up with tricky schemes like this to do something that (Re-)Alpine should do automatically. But it isn't over, yet.... > Then when I get to the composer I'd read in the file "~/tmp.txt" And > probably include a line about the below forwarded text also being > attached in it's original form. Or sometimes (just sometimes) I'll use > the text version of the forwarded message as a guide to compose my > comments, then AFTER I think my comments are appropriate to the text, I > might even delete it so that the attachment becomes the only included > copy of the forwarded message once more. > > In the case of those annoying (though thankfully rare) cases where a > reply is automatically included as an attachment it's a bit more > difficult. As I wind up saving the original message to my > "postponed-msgs" folder so that I can "edit" with my alternate editor > where I manually insert some leading "> " characters before each line > before I write the text to ~/tmp.txt. then I can trim the quoted text > down to the parts I'm responding to, and insert my comments in the > appropriate places. (Though usually in those cases. after I read the > ~/tmp.txt file into the text body of the reply with the attached message > (and correct In-Reply-To:) I most often then delete the attached version > of the quoted text... > > But in both cases I sure wish alpine would let me choose "BOTH" without > all this external manipulation. Right. Who needs this complicated nightmare to accomplish something so simple and obviously desirable that it should be doable with a single keystroke? Mike From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Sat Nov 26 14:22:50 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] links contained in forwarded emails. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, 26 Nov 2011, Mike Miller wrote: > On Sat, 26 Nov 2011, Geoffrey Thomas wrote: > >> That sounds rather like "Forward message as an attachment", does it not? > > No. Do you read my messages? Here is one that you seem to have > forgotten -- it was a reply to a message of yours: > > http://mailman13.u.washington.edu/pipermail/alpine-info/2011-November/004474.html Sorry that was a reply to Josuha Miller, not to you. Mike From mattack at apple.com Mon Nov 28 12:29:55 2011 From: mattack at apple.com (Matt Ackeret) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Re: In-Reply-To: References: <4ECBB918.6010008@nephros.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Nov 2011, Mike Miller wrote: > On Wed, 23 Nov 2011, Pierre Frenkiel wrote: > >> On Tue, 22 Nov 2011, Mike Miller wrote: >> >>> Do you have to use imap with fetchmail? >> yes, I'm using IMAP. At last, instead of that google mess, >> I found an other smtp server with which I have no problem. > > I've heard that Google IMAP is not true IMAP, or something along those lines. > When I ask if you "have to" use imap, I mean "must you use imap?" so your > answer that you currently use it is answering a different question. Another > way to put it is, "why don't you stop using imap and start using pop to access > Gmail via fetchmail?" I am doing that and I am not having your problem. In I have no idea if Gmail POP is not true POP either, but with 'real' POP, it's easy to hose one's mailbox, e.g. if two clients talk to the same mailbox at the same time. (I used to do that very often, even on the same machine.. have a GUI client and pine running at the same time.) For example, if you use the Gmail web interface and POP access at the same time, is everything fine? I don't know, just a potential warning though. From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Mon Nov 28 13:53:24 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Re: In-Reply-To: References: <4ECBB918.6010008@nephros.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Nov 2011, Matt Ackeret wrote: > On Wed, 23 Nov 2011, Mike Miller wrote: > >> On Wed, 23 Nov 2011, Pierre Frenkiel wrote: >> >>> On Tue, 22 Nov 2011, Mike Miller wrote: >>> >>>> Do you have to use imap with fetchmail? >>> >>> yes, I'm using IMAP. At last, instead of that google mess, I found an >>> other smtp server with which I have no problem. >> >> I've heard that Google IMAP is not true IMAP, or something along those >> lines. When I ask if you "have to" use imap, I mean "must you use >> imap?" so your answer that you currently use it is answering a >> different question. Another way to put it is, "why don't you stop >> using imap and start using pop to access Gmail via fetchmail?" I am >> doing that and I am not having your problem. In > > I have no idea if Gmail POP is not true POP either, but with 'real' POP, > it's easy to hose one's mailbox, e.g. if two clients talk to the same > mailbox at the same time. (I used to do that very often, even on the > same machine.. have a GUI client and pine running at the same time.) > > For example, if you use the Gmail web interface and POP access at the > same time, is everything fine? I don't know, just a potential warning > though. I think Mark Crispin, IMAP developer, was the guy who used to complain on this list about Google's IMAP not following protocols correctly. I'm sure it's in the archives. I can't tell you about *potential* problems with POP but I can tell you about my experience (including one minor problem) using fetchmail via POP with Gmail for three years. The way I have it set up (explained in detail earlier with config files sent to the list) makes it so that fetchmail copies messages from Gmail's Inbox to my local machine after which they are marked as 'read' on Gmail and are moved from Gmail's Inbox to the All Mail archive. I believe that fetchmail hasn't missed any messages in all these years, but I've made fairly minimal use of the Gmail web interface. When I use the web interface, I read messages in Inbox and I compose messages, but I don't "archive" them -- that seems to be handled just fine by fetchmail and I'm afraid that if I archive a message from the web interface, then fetchmail won't see it. fetchmail also finds messages I composed in the web interface and it downloads those messages, too. I also have a Palm Pre cell phone that uses POP and continually checks my Gmail for new messages. I hardly use that feature, so I don't know why I bother. It tells me if I have a message, but I rarely look at the message using the Pre. However, when I do look at the message on the Pre, I think that affects the archiving on Gmail, at least occasionally. fetchmail still grabs messages if I've looked at them on the Pre, but sometimes the message stays in Gmail's Inbox instead of moving to the archive. I have never bothered to figure this out, but every once in a while I see an old message in the Gmail Inbox via the web interface, I check that it was downloaded by fetchmail, and it always was, so I archive it by hand. I think this problem has to do with the Pre, but it doesn't bother me much so I haven't tried to figure it out. Mike