From jrjfreer at gmail.com Sat Oct 1 13:25:35 2011 From: jrjfreer at gmail.com (James Freer) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:51 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Alpine - multiple accounts Message-ID: [Using Linux Xubuntu 10.04 - Alpine 2.0] I've been learning Alpine and am unsure on a few things. I've googled and read a load but still have a query or two. I wanted to use Alpine for the speed (as i belong to a lot of mailing lists) which i regard as it's strongpoint compared with graphical email clients [Thunderbird, Evolution i find almost impossible to use these days]. I've set up alpine with two AOL and two gmail email addresses (although i am shortly to cease using gmail). a] It seems to me that the first email address stores headers in 'mail' (directory in 'home') and the other accounts when accessed by 'Folder list' has the directories as on webmail. Is this correct? For the other accounts i was expecting the folders to be automatically listed like on Thunderbird etc which is the case but headers are not stored. Is the Collection in Alpine like one can collect using e.g. a gmail address collecting from another email address. I wanted to set up accounts independently storing headers as i'd used on Thunderbird. b] Roles. I've set up roles ok but when i send from the first email address the sent message goes to the Inbox not Sent box. Gmail is fine but probably because their labelling system is different i.e. 'All mail' contains inbox and sent mail. Thanks for your help... sorry if this seems common sense to most and i've just missed the point somehow. Managed to get sorting threads done this evening ok. james From jrjfreer at gmail.com Sun Oct 2 15:30:35 2011 From: jrjfreer at gmail.com (James Freer) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:51 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Re: Alpine - multiple accounts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 1 October 2011 21:25, James Freer wrote: > [Using Linux Xubuntu 10.04 - Alpine 2.0] > > I've been learning Alpine and am unsure on a few things. I've googled > and read a load but still have a query or two. I wanted to use Alpine > for the speed (as i belong to a lot of mailing lists) which i regard > as it's strongpoint compared with graphical email clients > [Thunderbird, Evolution i find almost impossible to use these days]. > I've set up alpine with two AOL and two gmail email addresses > (although i am shortly to cease using gmail). > > a] It seems to me that the first email address stores headers in > 'mail' (directory in 'home') and the other accounts when accessed by > 'Folder list' has the directories as on webmail. Is this correct? For > the other accounts i was expecting the folders to be automatically > listed like on Thunderbird etc which is the case but headers are not > stored. Is the Collection in Alpine like one can collect using e.g. a > gmail address collecting from another email address. I wanted to set > up accounts independently storing headers as i'd used on Thunderbird. > > b] Roles. I've set up roles ok but when i send from the first email > address the sent message goes to the Inbox not Sent box. Gmail is fine > but probably because their labelling system is different i.e. 'All > mail' contains inbox and sent mail. > > Thanks for your help... sorry if this seems common sense to most and > i've just missed the point somehow. Managed to get sorting threads > done this evening ok. > > james > a] I think i've found what i'm looking for regarding the additional accounts. [snip] > the other accounts i was expecting the folders to be automatically > listed like on Thunderbird etc which is the case but headers are not > stored. What i thought was happening was that it was retrieving headers each time i opened Alpine. I did the following which seems to have done 'the trick'. Main menu--Configuration--[Advanced user's preferences section] marked [ ] Save will not delete. Further down in the configuration file under Pruning rule marked [ ] Don't rename, don't delete Exit setup and 'yes' to save settings Grateful if someone could confirm/advise on these steps. thanks james From morgan at orst.edu Mon Oct 3 09:30:01 2011 From: morgan at orst.edu (Andrew Morgan) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:51 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Re: Alpine - multiple accounts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 2 Oct 2011, James Freer wrote: > On 1 October 2011 21:25, James Freer wrote: >> [Using Linux Xubuntu 10.04 - Alpine 2.0] >> >> I've been learning Alpine and am unsure on a few things. I've googled >> and read a load but still have a query or two. I wanted to use Alpine >> for the speed (as i belong to a lot of mailing lists) which i regard >> as it's strongpoint compared with graphical email clients >> [Thunderbird, Evolution i find almost impossible to use these days]. >> I've set up alpine with two AOL and two gmail email addresses >> (although i am shortly to cease using gmail). >> >> a] It seems to me that the first email address stores headers in >> 'mail' (directory in 'home') and the other accounts when accessed by >> 'Folder list' has the directories as on webmail. Is this correct? For >> the other accounts i was expecting the folders to be automatically >> listed like on Thunderbird etc which is the case but headers are not >> stored. Is the Collection in Alpine like one can collect using e.g. a >> gmail address collecting from another email address. I wanted to set >> up accounts independently storing headers as i'd used on Thunderbird. >> >> b] Roles. I've set up roles ok but when i send from the first email >> address the sent message goes to the Inbox not Sent box. Gmail is fine >> but probably because their labelling system is different i.e. 'All >> mail' contains inbox and sent mail. >> >> Thanks for your help... sorry if this seems common sense to most and >> i've just missed the point somehow. Managed to get sorting threads >> done this evening ok. >> >> james >> > > a] I think i've found what i'm looking for regarding the additional accounts. I use Alpine for multiple remote IMAP servers. In .pinerc, I list them in the folder-collections setting. In this purely remote mode, there is no local ~/mail/ folder. Also, if you want all the folders to look seamless, you can add your folders to the incoming-folders collection. This also lets you use the key in Alpine to check each folder for new mail. For example, I read all the mail in my INBOX, then I hit and it will open the next incoming folder with new mail. Andy From jrjfreer at gmail.com Mon Oct 3 16:23:52 2011 From: jrjfreer at gmail.com (James Freer) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:51 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Re: Alpine - multiple accounts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 3 October 2011 17:30, Andrew Morgan wrote: > On Sun, 2 Oct 2011, James Freer wrote: > >> On 1 October 2011 21:25, James Freer wrote: >>> >>> [Using Linux Xubuntu 10.04 - Alpine 2.0] >>> >>> I've been learning Alpine and am unsure on a few things. I've googled >>> and read a load but still have a query or two. I wanted to use Alpine >>> for the speed (as i belong to a lot of mailing lists) which i regard >>> as it's strongpoint compared with graphical email clients >>> [Thunderbird, Evolution i find almost impossible to use these days]. >>> I've set up alpine with two AOL and two gmail email addresses >>> (although i am shortly to cease using gmail). >>> >>> a] It seems to me that the first email address stores headers in >>> 'mail' (directory in 'home') and the other accounts when accessed by >>> 'Folder list' has the directories as on webmail. Is this correct? For >>> the other accounts i was expecting the folders to be automatically >>> listed like on Thunderbird etc which is the case but headers are not >>> stored. Is the Collection in Alpine like one can collect using e.g. a >>> gmail address collecting from another email address. I wanted to set >>> up accounts independently storing headers as i'd used on Thunderbird. >>> >>> b] Roles. I've set up roles ok but when i send from the first email >>> address the sent message goes to the Inbox not Sent box. Gmail is fine >>> but probably because their labelling system is different i.e. 'All >>> mail' contains inbox and sent mail. >>> >>> Thanks for your help... sorry if this seems common sense to most and >>> i've just missed the point somehow. Managed to get sorting threads >>> done this evening ok. >>> >>> james >>> >> >> a] I think i've found what i'm looking for regarding the additional >> accounts. > > I use Alpine for multiple remote IMAP servers. ?In .pinerc, I list them in > the folder-collections setting. ?In this purely remote mode, there is no > local ~/mail/ folder. ?Also, if you want all the folders to look seamless, > you can add your folders to the incoming-folders collection. ?This also lets > you use the key in Alpine to check each folder for new mail. For > example, I read all the mail in my INBOX, then I hit and it will open > the next incoming folder with new mail. > > ? ? ? ?Andy > Andy Thanks for your reply. I think i follow the logic of what you're saying (i'm an engineering graduate so IT knowledge is something i pick up and attempt to reason out). I removed the entries in Setup--Config (which is the same i think as what your saying in the pinerc). However, when one starts alpine it says "Incomplete Mail domain" - i suppose because it's looking for a Domain name which isn't entered. Is that expected! [or what you get?]. Of course it may be that i need to do a fresh install... starting from a 'clean slate' as i have the '/mail/ directory' appearing on one of the collection folders. I manually deleted the /mail/ folder which might have upset Alpine. Many thanks for the help i'll give it another go tomorrow. james From morgan at orst.edu Mon Oct 3 16:40:55 2011 From: morgan at orst.edu (Andrew Morgan) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:51 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Re: Alpine - multiple accounts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Oct 2011, James Freer wrote: > On 3 October 2011 17:30, Andrew Morgan wrote: >> On Sun, 2 Oct 2011, James Freer wrote: >> >>> On 1 October 2011 21:25, James Freer wrote: >>>> >>>> [Using Linux Xubuntu 10.04 - Alpine 2.0] >>>> >>>> I've been learning Alpine and am unsure on a few things. I've googled >>>> and read a load but still have a query or two. I wanted to use Alpine >>>> for the speed (as i belong to a lot of mailing lists) which i regard >>>> as it's strongpoint compared with graphical email clients >>>> [Thunderbird, Evolution i find almost impossible to use these days]. >>>> I've set up alpine with two AOL and two gmail email addresses >>>> (although i am shortly to cease using gmail). >>>> >>>> a] It seems to me that the first email address stores headers in >>>> 'mail' (directory in 'home') and the other accounts when accessed by >>>> 'Folder list' has the directories as on webmail. Is this correct? For >>>> the other accounts i was expecting the folders to be automatically >>>> listed like on Thunderbird etc which is the case but headers are not >>>> stored. Is the Collection in Alpine like one can collect using e.g. a >>>> gmail address collecting from another email address. I wanted to set >>>> up accounts independently storing headers as i'd used on Thunderbird. >>>> >>>> b] Roles. I've set up roles ok but when i send from the first email >>>> address the sent message goes to the Inbox not Sent box. Gmail is fine >>>> but probably because their labelling system is different i.e. 'All >>>> mail' contains inbox and sent mail. >>>> >>>> Thanks for your help... sorry if this seems common sense to most and >>>> i've just missed the point somehow. Managed to get sorting threads >>>> done this evening ok. >>>> >>>> james >>>> >>> >>> a] I think i've found what i'm looking for regarding the additional >>> accounts. >> >> I use Alpine for multiple remote IMAP servers. ?In .pinerc, I list them in >> the folder-collections setting. ?In this purely remote mode, there is no >> local ~/mail/ folder. ?Also, if you want all the folders to look seamless, >> you can add your folders to the incoming-folders collection. ?This also lets >> you use the key in Alpine to check each folder for new mail. For >> example, I read all the mail in my INBOX, then I hit and it will open >> the next incoming folder with new mail. >> >> ? ? ? ?Andy >> > > Andy > > Thanks for your reply. > > I think i follow the logic of what you're saying (i'm an engineering > graduate so IT knowledge is something i pick up and attempt to reason > out). I removed the entries in Setup--Config (which is the same i > think as what your saying in the pinerc). However, when one starts > alpine it says "Incomplete Mail domain" - i suppose because it's > looking for a Domain name which isn't entered. Is that expected! [or > what you get?]. Of course it may be that i need to do a fresh > install... starting from a 'clean slate' as i have the '/mail/ > directory' appearing on one of the collection folders. I manually > deleted the /mail/ folder which might have upset Alpine. > > Many thanks for the help i'll give it another go tomorrow. These are my settings in Main > Setup > Config: Personal Name = User Domain = SMTP Server (for sending) = NNTP Server (for news) = Inbox Path = {imap.onid.oregonstate.edu/tls}INBOX In Main > Setup > collectionLists, I have 2 collections defined for 2 different IMAP servers. To add various folders to the Incoming-Folders, go to Main > FOLDER LIST > Incoming-Folders. Choose the Add option and select folders. You'll probably also want to set alternate addresses in Main > Setup > Config, and check out the Roles stuff to handle responding as a different >From address when using multiple accounts. I hope this helps! Andy From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Wed Oct 5 11:24:25 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:51 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Alpine - multiple accounts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, 1 Oct 2011, James Freer wrote: > [Using Linux Xubuntu 10.04 - Alpine 2.0] > > I've been learning Alpine and am unsure on a few things. I've googled > and read a load but still have a query or two. I wanted to use Alpine > for the speed (as i belong to a lot of mailing lists) which i regard as > it's strongpoint compared with graphical email clients [Thunderbird, > Evolution i find almost impossible to use these days]. I've set up > alpine with two AOL and two gmail email addresses (although i am shortly > to cease using gmail). I'm like you. I don't have a lot of time right now, but I'll just add to this discussion that fetchmail in combination with procmail has been working beautifully for me for the past couple of years. fetchmail sends incoming messages to procmail which filters them into a variety of inboxes based on whatever criteria I specify. Every list has its own inbox. You have to learn to write procmail recipies to do this. It isn't hard and I think it is well worth learning. I think this is a good place to learn about procmail: http://www.ii.com/internet/robots/procmail/qs/ Now that I look at it again, it seems exceedingly long, but it must be possible to skim through it to get to the good parts because I know that I made it work without reading all of that. Mike From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Wed Oct 5 11:31:58 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:51 2018 Subject: colour Re: [Alpine-info] Two Unresolved Issues: ... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 22 Sep 2011, Lucio Chiappetti wrote: > On Wed, 21 Sep 2011, Benjamin R. Haskell wrote: > >> Using alpine, I never enabled colors for more than a minute, though, as >> I find them visually distracting. > > Matter of taste and convenience. I felt like that for a long time, and > I'm still using a monochrome pine in the account I use to read Usenet. > But in my normal account it is quite a long time I set up a colour > arrangement which I like: > [snip] > > - in the message screen > > default colour for body > but different colours for indented replies I can't see why someone would want to live without that kind of coloring of replies. It makes a huge difference for me when tracking who wrote what I am reading. For example, for me, reading this message after sending, the stuff written above by Lucio would be in cyan and the part by Benjamin would be in green while my words would be in white. What's not to like about that? It makes a bigger difference with longer, more complex messages, especially those where the most recent reply is only a few lines embedded in a lot of earlier text. Mike From unrtst at gmail.com Wed Oct 5 12:41:53 2011 From: unrtst at gmail.com (Joshua Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: colour Re: [Alpine-info] Two Unresolved Issues: ... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 4:05 AM, Lucio Chiappetti wrote: > On Wed, 21 Sep 2011, Benjamin R. Haskell wrote: > > Using alpine, I never enabled colors for more than a minute, though, as I >> find them visually distracting. >> > > Matter of taste and convenience. I felt like that for a long time, and I'm > still using a monochrome pine in the account I use to read Usenet. But in my > normal account it is quite a long time I set up a colour arrangement which I > like: > Any chance you can post the parts of your config that have to do with color? It's been a long time since I played with it and didn't really like it, but your description sounds very very good. Thanks! -- Josh I. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mattack at apple.com Wed Oct 5 12:56:18 2011 From: mattack at apple.com (Matt Ackeret) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: colour Re: [Alpine-info] Two Unresolved Issues: ... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Oct 2011, Mike Miller wrote: > I can't see why someone would want to live without that kind of coloring of > replies. I can't see why someone would want to live without Microsoft Entourage (*) as their only mail client. (*) This is not meant to be anti-Microsoft in the least, I just picked the biggie. -- Answer: Because it makes conversations flow in a nonsensical order. Question: Why is top-posting wrong? [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netiquette] From jak at ucop.edu Thu Oct 6 11:52:01 2011 From: jak at ucop.edu (John A. Kunze) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] feature request: new command "maybe" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'd love to have a keystroke to invoke a command that does the following. Not sure what to call it -- for now it's the "maybe" command. It would 1. Mark a message with a new flag: "maybe" 2. Advance to the next message, similar in this regard to "delete" 3. Upon exiting, those messages are saved in a "maybe" folder What I find is that there's a small amount of my constantly overflowing inbox that (a) I know I need to save and (b) I know I can delete now. But the vast majority of my inbox is stuff that I _might_ need, and that I'd like to be able to dig out of one big bucket (not lots of little folders managed by lots of rules) on an as-needed basis. An important property of this "maybe" bucket is that I can chop off stuff older than a couple years without looking anything but the timestamp. This would address a very important use case for me, which is that I currently end up saving huge amounts of mail that is a mixture of important things I knew I wanted to save and a very large amount of things that turned out to be very unimportant, but I didn't know that at the time of saving. What I do know at the time of saving/flagging is whether thing is (a) important, (b) trash, or (c) maybe. Because it's a common use case for me (anyone else?), it would be great to have single keystroke for it. -John From schamane at fam.tuwien.ac.at Thu Oct 6 13:00:09 2011 From: schamane at fam.tuwien.ac.at (Andreas Schamanek) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] feature request: new command "maybe" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi John, On Thu, 6 Oct 2011, at 11:52, John A. Kunze wrote: > I'd love to have a keystroke to ... > 1. Mark a message with a new flag: "maybe" > 2. Advance to the next message, similar in this regard to "delete" > 3. Upon exiting, those messages are saved in a "maybe" folder Two quick answers: 1) I have a folder called "q" (for queue) and Alpine has "Save Will Advance" set. So, I press "s" and "q" and "Enter", and that's it. 2) Guessing from your Message-ID you are on Debian. Have a look at AutoKey [ http://code.google.com/p/autokey/ ] HTH, -- -- Andreas From geoff at QuiteLikely.com Thu Oct 6 13:56:12 2011 From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] feature request: new command "maybe" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 6 Oct 2011, John A. Kunze wrote: > I'd love to have a keystroke to invoke a command that does the following. > Not sure what to call it -- for now it's the "maybe" command. It would > > 1. Mark a message with a new flag: "maybe" > 2. Advance to the next message, similar in this regard to "delete" > 3. Upon exiting, those messages are saved in a "maybe" folder Couldn't you use a read messages folder for this? Just hit "next" for any messages you want to put in this "maybe" folder and flag up all the rest. Geoff. From jak at ucop.edu Thu Oct 6 14:23:06 2011 From: jak at ucop.edu (John A. Kunze) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] feature request: new command "maybe" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: --- On Thu, 6 Oct 2011, Geoff Shang wrote: >> I'd love to have a keystroke to invoke a command that does the following. >> Not sure what to call it -- for now it's the "maybe" command. It would >> >> 1. Mark a message with a new flag: "maybe" >> 2. Advance to the next message, similar in this regard to "delete" >> 3. Upon exiting, those messages are saved in a "maybe" folder > > Couldn't you use a read messages folder for this? Just hit "next" for any > messages you want to put in this "maybe" folder and flag up all the rest. No, and I forgot to mention that I don't read most messages, but just want to mark them as "maybe" as I whiz by them in the "message index". More importantly, I didn't mention that for me "save" is passive -- it really means "leave in my inbox". I definitely do not want to manually save messages one at a time. Instead, the only way I can seem to manage my inbox is to let large amounts of mail (currently over 22,000 messages) age until it becomes unwieldy and every so often save everything found in the first (oldest) 1-10,000 messages. Currently that saves lots of junk. In summary, I see 3 broad classes of message (the 3rd doesn't exist yet): - important (stays in inbox; every so often I save a range of oldest), - trash (manually marked for deletion, vanishing on exit), - maybe (manually marked for a folder I'll need occasionally; if one of them turns out to be a gem, I'll save it manually; every so often I'll delete a range of oldest messages) -John From alpine at benizi.com Thu Oct 6 14:36:10 2011 From: alpine at benizi.com (Benjamin R. Haskell) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] feature request: new command "maybe" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 6 Oct 2011, John A. Kunze wrote: > I'd love to have a keystroke to invoke a command that does the > following. Not sure what to call it -- for now it's the "maybe" > command. It would > > 1. Mark a message with a new flag: "maybe" > 2. Advance to the next message, similar in this regard to "delete" > 3. Upon exiting, those messages are saved in a "maybe" folder > > What I find is that there's a small amount of my constantly > overflowing inbox that (a) I know I need to save and (b) I know I can > delete now. > > But the vast majority of my inbox is stuff that I _might_ need, and > that I'd like to be able to dig out of one big bucket (not lots of > little folders managed by lots of rules) on an as-needed basis. An > important property of this "maybe" bucket is that I can chop off stuff > older than a couple years without looking anything but the timestamp. > > This would address a very important use case for me, which is that I > currently end up saving huge amounts of mail that is a mixture of > important things I knew I wanted to save and a very large amount of > things that turned out to be very unimportant, but I didn't know that > at the time of saving. > > What I do know at the time of saving/flagging is whether thing is (a) > important, (b) trash, or (c) maybe. Because it's a common use case > for me (anyone else?), it would be great to have single keystroke for > it. It doesn't get it down to a single keystroke (rather, two) but the following seems pretty close to what you want: 1. Create an IMAP keyword called "maybe": In your INBOX (presumably): * a * = flag ^T = to details a = add keyword 2. That allows you to flag things with two keys: * m * = flag m = keyword initial (make the name start with something easier to type, if you prefer -- *m spans four rows and a pinkie for me -- maybe "zzz" or "undecided") 3. Create a filter Create it: M S R F A M = main menu S = setup R = rules F = filters A = add Nickname: "maybe" cleaner Comment: moves things to the "maybe" folder Current Folder Type = (choose either INBOX or 'Email' or 'Any') Keyword pattern = maybe Under: ACTIONS BEGIN HERE Filter Action = (*) Move Folder List = maybe Clear These Keywords = maybe Then, things that you mark as maybe will be moved whenever filters are processed (which, IIRC, depends on your settings, but happens at a minimum when you open and close a folder) -- Best, Ben From robin.listas at telefonica.net Thu Oct 6 14:53:36 2011 From: robin.listas at telefonica.net (Carlos E. R.) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] feature request: new command "maybe" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Thursday, 2011-10-06 at 14:23 -0700, John A. Kunze wrote: > In summary, I see 3 broad classes of message (the 3rd doesn't exist yet): > > - important (stays in inbox; every so often I save a range of oldest), > > - trash (manually marked for deletion, vanishing on exit), > > - maybe (manually marked for a folder I'll need occasionally; if > one of them turns out to be a gem, I'll save it manually; > every so often I'll delete a range of oldest messages) Mark with ":". At the end of the session, before leaving the inbox, use "apply/save" to move the msgs to another folder. The colon key can be used while you read or without reading. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 11.4 x86_64 "Celadon" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAk6OI2AACgkQtTMYHG2NR9Vr1gCeMwFAd6tpD0hvgF1f292JKInp WiUAnROK0fv6WTjuvWjPnzdsaPnUyZcO =68tW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From alpine at benizi.com Thu Oct 6 15:20:18 2011 From: alpine at benizi.com (Benjamin R. Haskell) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: colour Re: [Alpine-info] Two Unresolved Issues: ... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 22 Sep 2011, Lucio Chiappetti wrote: > On Wed, 21 Sep 2011, Benjamin R. Haskell wrote: > >> Using alpine, I never enabled colors for more than a minute, though, >> as I find them visually distracting. > > Matter of taste and convenience. I felt like that for a long time, and > I'm still using a monochrome pine in the account I use to read Usenet. > But in my normal account it is quite a long time I set up a colour > arrangement which I like: Responses to specifics inlined. But first an overview of how I use Alpine: When I'm at home I use Alpine very infrequently for reading mail, but I use it for the majority of my mail composition. I do most of my browsing and sorting through Gmail's web interface (Apps for Domains). The reasons I still use it even though I don't use it for most of my reading: 1. When wading through the ocean of crap that is my Spam folder, I can sort by sender. 2. I can specify the From: address when composing mail. 3. I can use an external editor for composing. (I use Vim, in which I've got a whole lot of colorization.) With Gmail, I find myself using the tagging system... a looot. Which doesn't play well with the fact that it's poorly translated to IMAP (tags are really Keywords, but Gmail represents tags as folders). So, that makes using IMAP for browsing less pleasant. At work, without Gmail, I've stuck with my "everything in INBOX" mode of operation. (currently 21,000+ messages for the past two years.) I use the search functions (;TS), (;TP), (etc.) allll the time. I'm pretty quick at (;F)iltering. I generally use tHreaded sort, and don't have to often deal with excessively long threads but when I do, I generally fold ({) them to get them out of the way. I use my Index Format to solve a lot of the things you seem to do with colors, so I'll mention it up front: KEYINIT(1) FULLSTATUS MSGNO SHORTDATEISO TIME24 SUBJECT FROMORTO TO(12) SIZE > - on all screens > top line "in evidence" (white on blue) I find "reverse" to be fine. No need for color. > bulk with default color (coral on black) With KEYINIT(1), bulk is indicated with a 'B' in the first column. > bottom lines with key reminder in dim magenta I have the keymenu disabled. > - on (most) folder index screens > > default colour for messages to me > different colour for messages from me FROMORTO in my index format. Then messages that are From me have a conspicuous 'To:' right after the Subject. > green for NEW messages Fourth char of FULLSTATUS is 'N'. > red for messages in inbox saved to other folder but still to be answered Don't use folders much. I have a Todo keyword for this, or '*' for Important, if it's warranted. > cyan for important messages '*' as the first char of FULLSTATUS. > yellow on blue for messages marked by particular keyword This was actually the thing that bugged me most about the colors. I'd much prefer that the colors apply to the entire index line. I really like the use of horizontal space that my Index Format provides (most of the subject line usually visible), but the fact that only things in the first 7 or 10(?) characters of my line is what I found most distracting, and makes it seem half-assed. > (the same colour arrangement may be used with slightly different > meaning in particular folders) > > - in the message screen > > default colour for body > but different colours for indented replies > signature in white N/A for my home use of Alpine. At work, I get by without message coloring because everyone top-posts, rather than inline-responses (which I prefer for technical work). > default colour for most header kwds but > from and subject are brighter (white yellow) > to and cc are different (green and dimmer green) > message id is dark (blue) I don't normally enable full header mode, so I find the headers pretty quick to parse. > (and actually I spent a bit of time when I insalled webalpine to make > it "traditional" view look like the above) (Still amazed that you got webalpine working and use it. Nice writeups, BTW.) > I like the extreme flexibility of .pinerc in configuring things like > this to one's taste. Absolutely. I also like the fact that I've not had to hand-edit .pinerc in years. Especially because I use a remote-pinerc, so I share it between multiple servers (or create a similar one when necessary, but started from the same base). -- Best, Ben From alpine at benizi.com Thu Oct 6 15:25:45 2011 From: alpine at benizi.com (Benjamin R. Haskell) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: colour Re: [Alpine-info] Two Unresolved Issues: ... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Oct 2011, Mike Miller wrote: > On Thu, 22 Sep 2011, Lucio Chiappetti wrote: > >> On Wed, 21 Sep 2011, Benjamin R. Haskell wrote: >> >>> Using alpine, I never enabled colors for more than a minute, though, >>> as I find them visually distracting. >> >> Matter of taste and convenience. I felt like that for a long time, >> and I'm still using a monochrome pine in the account I use to read >> Usenet. But in my normal account it is quite a long time I set up a >> colour arrangement which I like: >> > [snip] >> >> - in the message screen >> >> default colour for body >> but different colours for indented replies > > > I can't see why someone would want to live without that kind of > coloring of replies. It makes a huge difference for me when tracking > who wrote what I am reading. As mentioned in my response to Lucio, my use case for Alpine is pretty weird. When at work, I don't find that kind of highlighting particularly useful (most coworkers use stupid Outlook, so the formatting is... interesting). When at home, I use Gmail's web interface. > For example, for me, reading this message after sending, the stuff > written above by Lucio would be in cyan and the part by Benjamin would > be in green while my words would be in white. What's not to like > about that? It makes a bigger difference with longer, more complex > messages, especially those where the most recent reply is only a few > lines embedded in a lot of earlier text. When composing messages, I get that kind of highlighting through Vim. When reading, though: 1. If it's complex, I'm probably viewing it via Gmail's web interface. 2. If the nesting levels aren't complex, I don't find it useful enough to get it working consistently across a range of terminal emulators. -- Best, Ben From alpine at benizi.com Thu Oct 6 15:27:43 2011 From: alpine at benizi.com (Benjamin R. Haskell) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: colour Re: [Alpine-info] Two Unresolved Issues: ... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 5 Oct 2011, Joshua Miller wrote: > On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 4:05 AM, Lucio Chiappetti wrote: > >> On Wed, 21 Sep 2011, Benjamin R. Haskell wrote: >> >>> Using alpine, I never enabled colors for more than a minute, though, >>> as I find them visually distracting. >> >> Matter of taste and convenience. I felt like that for a long time, >> and I'm still using a monochrome pine in the account I use to read >> Usenet. But in my normal account it is quite a long time I set up a >> colour arrangement which I like: >> > > > Any chance you can post the parts of your config that have to do with > color? It's been a long time since I played with it and didn't really > like it, but your description sounds very very good. +1. I'd also be interested to know whether it's some setting that I long ago forgot that causes my colors to only apply to the keywords and keyword symbols. -- Best, Ben From jak at ucop.edu Thu Oct 6 17:09:10 2011 From: jak at ucop.edu (John A. Kunze) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] feature request: new command "maybe" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: --- On Thu, 6 Oct 2011, Carlos E. R. wrote: > On Thursday, 2011-10-06 at 14:23 -0700, John A. Kunze wrote: >> In summary, I see 3 broad classes of message (the 3rd doesn't exist yet): >> - important (stays in inbox; every so often I save a range of oldest), >> - trash (manually marked for deletion, vanishing on exit), >> - maybe (manually marked for a folder I'll need occasionally; if >> one of them turns out to be a gem, I'll save it manually; >> every so often I'll delete a range of oldest messages) > Mark with ":". At the end of the session, before leaving the inbox, use > "apply/save" to move the msgs to another folder. The colon key can be used > while you read or without reading. Thanks, but using standard message selection won't work as I frequently disturb the selection in the course of reading and responding to messages as I process them. -John From jak at ucop.edu Thu Oct 6 17:16:05 2011 From: jak at ucop.edu (John A. Kunze) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] feature request: new command "maybe" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Cool. I'll give it a whirl. Thanks, -John --- On Thu, 6 Oct 2011, Benjamin R. Haskell wrote: >> I'd love to have a keystroke to invoke a command that does the following. >> Not sure what to call it -- for now it's the "maybe" command. It would >> >> 1. Mark a message with a new flag: "maybe" >> 2. Advance to the next message, similar in this regard to "delete" >> 3. Upon exiting, those messages are saved in a "maybe" folder >> >> What I find is that there's a small amount of my constantly overflowing >> inbox that (a) I know I need to save and (b) I know I can delete now. >> >> But the vast majority of my inbox is stuff that I _might_ need, and that >> I'd like to be able to dig out of one big bucket (not lots of little >> folders managed by lots of rules) on an as-needed basis. An important >> property of this "maybe" bucket is that I can chop off stuff older than a >> couple years without looking anything but the timestamp. >> >> This would address a very important use case for me, which is that I >> currently end up saving huge amounts of mail that is a mixture of important >> things I knew I wanted to save and a very large amount of things that >> turned out to be very unimportant, but I didn't know that at the time of >> saving. >> >> What I do know at the time of saving/flagging is whether thing is (a) >> important, (b) trash, or (c) maybe. Because it's a common use case for me >> (anyone else?), it would be great to have single keystroke for it. > > It doesn't get it down to a single keystroke (rather, two) but the following > seems pretty close to what you want: > > 1. Create an IMAP keyword called "maybe": > > In your INBOX (presumably): * a > * = flag > ^T = to details > a = add keyword > > 2. That allows you to flag things with two keys: * m > > * = flag > m = keyword initial > > (make the name start with something easier to type, if you prefer -- *m spans > four rows and a pinkie for me -- maybe "zzz" or "undecided") > > > 3. Create a filter > > Create it: M S R F A > M = main menu > S = setup > R = rules > F = filters > A = add > > Nickname: "maybe" cleaner > Comment: moves things to the "maybe" folder > > Current Folder Type = > (choose either INBOX or 'Email' or 'Any') > > Keyword pattern = maybe > > Under: ACTIONS BEGIN HERE > > Filter Action = > (*) Move > Folder List = maybe > > Clear These Keywords = maybe > > Then, things that you mark as maybe will be moved whenever filters are > processed (which, IIRC, depends on your settings, but happens at a minimum > when you open and close a folder) > > -- > Best, > Ben > From unrtst at gmail.com Thu Oct 6 21:22:27 2011 From: unrtst at gmail.com (Joshua Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] feature request: new command "maybe" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 5:36 PM, Benjamin R. Haskell wrote: > On Thu, 6 Oct 2011, John A. Kunze wrote: > > I'd love to have a keystroke to invoke a command that does the following. >> Not sure what to call it -- for now it's the "maybe" command. It would >> >> 1. Mark a message with a new flag: "maybe" >> 2. Advance to the next message, similar in this regard to "delete" >> 3. Upon exiting, those messages are saved in a "maybe" folder >> >> What I find is that there's a small amount of my constantly overflowing >> inbox that (a) I know I need to save and (b) I know I can delete now. >> >> But the vast majority of my inbox is stuff that I _might_ need, and that >> I'd like to be able to dig out of one big bucket (not lots of little folders >> managed by lots of rules) on an as-needed basis. An important property of >> this "maybe" bucket is that I can chop off stuff older than a couple years >> without looking anything but the timestamp. >> >> This would address a very important use case for me, which is that I >> currently end up saving huge amounts of mail that is a mixture of important >> things I knew I wanted to save and a very large amount of things that turned >> out to be very unimportant, but I didn't know that at the time of saving. >> >> What I do know at the time of saving/flagging is whether thing is (a) >> important, (b) trash, or (c) maybe. Because it's a common use case for me >> (anyone else?), it would be great to have single keystroke for it. >> > > It doesn't get it down to a single keystroke (rather, two) but the > following seems pretty close to what you want: > > 1. Create an IMAP keyword called "maybe": > > In your INBOX (presumably): * a > * = flag > ^T = to details > a = add keyword > > 2. That allows you to flag things with two keys: * m > > * = flag > m = keyword initial > > (make the name start with something easier to type, if you prefer -- *m > spans four rows and a pinkie for me -- maybe "zzz" or "undecided") > > > 3. Create a filter > > Create it: M S R F A > M = main menu > S = setup > R = rules > F = filters > A = add > > Nickname: "maybe" cleaner > Comment: moves things to the "maybe" folder > > Current Folder Type = > (choose either INBOX or 'Email' or 'Any') > > Keyword pattern = maybe > > Under: ACTIONS BEGIN HERE > > Filter Action = > (*) Move > Folder List = maybe > > Clear These Keywords = maybe > > Then, things that you mark as maybe will be moved whenever filters are > processed (which, IIRC, depends on your settings, but happens at a minimum > when you open and close a folder) I was going to suggest basically the same thing. I run similar to parent (one very large inbox) and, through a good use of keywords, it's been extremely manageable. I think it's also worth noting that selecting messages by keyword is extremely fast if you're using an IMAP server that indexes stuff (dovecot does). On my inbox with 46000+ messages, selecting a few hundred that have one of my flags and zooming to them is near instantaneous (less than half a second). This also let's you select and zoom to selection, which I use in practice like a virtual folder. Four keystrokes and I have a view of everything with my "@" flag (which I use for todo): ;k@ The filter idea is also good, and you could have it be one that doesn't run automatically if you like, or just do it manually: ;k@s I also get a lot of junk. When I first open my inboxes in the morning, rather than scanning through the new messages and using delete, I use select on those that I want to delete (and try to abstain from reading any maybe's etc). Once through them, hit "z" to zoom, review the set real quick, then "adx" (apply, delete, expunge). That's sped up my day-to-day email grind quite a bit, and makes it a heck of a lot easier to then find the messages I want to read. Since both keywords and filters were mentioned, I'll throw out my favorite... I use the pine filters to apply a keyword to all messages whose from address matches an address from my address book, and a custom index-format of: index-format=STATUS MSGNO DATEISO TIME24 FROMORTO(33%) SIZE KEYINIT SUBJECT(67%) ...so the keyword initial is displayed in the message list. This makes it VERY easy to quickly spot the emails I'm more likely to want to read. Here's my filter, in case you want to do something like this (the keyword I used is "AddressBook" - you can use whatever you want though): patterns-filters2=LIT:pattern="/NICK=inaddressbook/COMM=flag these as from a person\\n/FLDTYPE=SPEC/FOLDER=INBOX/AFROM=SYES/ABOOKS=.addressbook/STATR=YES" action="/FILTER=2/NOKILL=1/KEYSET=AddressBook" The only thing this doesn't address is your desire for a single keystroke to do this stuff. As a feature request goes, I'd love to be able to define custom keyboard shortcuts that get added to the help at the bottom of the screen. There are loads of letters that aren't used, so it'd be great if one could make their one single keystroke shortcuts that would expand to something like "*@n" (Flag, as "@", enter, next). I think that could find some really valuable uses for many people in all kinds of odd ways :-) -- Josh I. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jrjfreer at gmail.com Fri Oct 7 15:04:24 2011 From: jrjfreer at gmail.com (James Freer) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Alpine - multiple accounts: Age Interval syntax, retaining flagged messages, sending with AOL? Message-ID: Having spent a few days experimenting i certainly like Alpine. However there are still a couple of things i'd like to do and sort out. a] In Thunderbird and Seamonkey for 'lists' it is useful to be able to set an auto delete i.e. delete messages after say 90 days. Reading on the UW website the command for Alpine is Age Interval (min, max) - i'd assume to enter in the .pinerc under patterns... about line 500 patterns-other ? i'm not sure on the syntax required. Together with auto delete it is useful to be able to flag messages for retaining. I'm sure both are possible but i'm not sure how. b] I've set my 4 email imap accounts up [2 gmail and 2 aol] and so far all works as it should do but with AOL a copy isn't put in the Sent folder. Obviously Alpine is working fine but somehow aol? Is aol a bit buggy? I've checked the settings - the gmail accounts seem fine. thanks james From mattack at apple.com Fri Oct 7 15:15:12 2011 From: mattack at apple.com (Matt Ackeret) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Alpine - multiple accounts: Age Interval syntax, retaining flagged messages, sending with AOL? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Oct 2011, James Freer wrote: >a] In Thunderbird and Seamonkey for 'lists' it is useful to be able to >set an auto delete i.e. delete messages after say 90 days. Reading on >the UW website the command for Alpine is Age Interval (min, max) - i'd >assume to enter in the .pinerc under patterns... about line 500 >patterns-other ? i'm not sure on the syntax required. Together with >auto delete it is useful to be able to flag messages for retaining. >I'm sure both are possible but i'm not sure how. I'd guess that you'd set a filter to mark as deleted if older than 90 days.. but do not do it if ther is ALSO a keyword.. and you'd add that keyword to the ones you wanted to save. From pierre.frenkiel at gmail.com Wed Oct 12 11:42:39 2011 From: pierre.frenkiel at gmail.com (Pierre Frenkiel) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] log file Message-ID: hi everybody, Up to now, I used a MTA (masqmail) to send my mails, and it had a log file showing for for each sent mail the time and the destination. Now that I use the smtp-server setting, I would like to have an equivalent information. Is it possible with pine? I tried the -d flag, but even with -d 1, there is too much information, and not the one I want. best regards -- Pierre Frenkiel From jrjfreer at gmail.com Wed Oct 12 14:11:47 2011 From: jrjfreer at gmail.com (James Freer) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Alpine - multiple accounts: Age Interval syntax, retaining flagged messages, sending with AOL? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 7 October 2011 23:15, Matt Ackeret wrote: > On Fri, 7 Oct 2011, James Freer wrote: >>a] In Thunderbird and Seamonkey for 'lists' it is useful to be able to >>set an auto delete i.e. delete messages after say 90 days. Reading on >>the UW website the command for Alpine is Age Interval (min, max) - i'd >>assume to enter in the .pinerc under patterns... about line 500 >>patterns-other ? i'm not sure on the syntax required. Together with >>auto delete it is useful to be able to flag messages for retaining. >>I'm sure both are possible but i'm not sure how. > > I'd guess that you'd set a filter to mark as deleted if older than 90 days.. > but do not do it if ther is ALSO a keyword.. and you'd add that keyword > to the ones you wanted to save. Thanks for the reply. I've done it but it was a little disappointing on the speed side. I realised there would be a delay with sorting but it is so slow it's barely worth trying. In the past i've flagged [starred] important messages and then selected unflagged and deleted manually - that seems the best way all things considered. unless anyone has any bright ideas! thanks james From pierre.frenkiel at gmail.com Thu Oct 13 03:31:42 2011 From: pierre.frenkiel at gmail.com (Pierre Frenkiel) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] using dma with alpine Message-ID: hi, I would like to use the dma MTA (Dragonfly Mail Agent) with pine. Can anybody tell me how I can do that? NB: sendmail is now a link to /usr/sbin/dma, and there is a -t flag (like the real sendmail) to tell dma to take the recipient list from the To:, Cc:, Bcc: headers in the file. I wrote then a 1 line script named sendmail: /usr/sbin/dma -t and that doesn't work.(there is nothing on stdin) It seems that pine doesn't put the mail in stdin when calling sendmail. So, how does it send the file? best regards, -- Pierre Frenkiel From D.H.Davis at bath.ac.uk Thu Oct 13 03:59:28 2011 From: D.H.Davis at bath.ac.uk (Dennis Davis) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] using dma with alpine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Oct 2011, Pierre Frenkiel wrote: > From: Pierre Frenkiel > To: alpine-info@u.washington.edu > Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2011 11:31:42 > Subject: [Alpine-info] using dma with alpine > > I would like to use the dma MTA (Dragonfly Mail Agent) with pine. > Can anybody tell me how I can do that? You haven't said how pine is configured. What happens if you configure pine with: smtp-server= sendmail-path=/usr/sbin/dma -t in your .pinerc file. Make sure these settings aren't overridden in a global /etc/pine.conf.fixed file. Ie you tell pine it doesn't have doesn't have a real SMTP server to play with but needs to invoke dma. I'm not familiar with dma, but this works for me using exim as a replacement for sendmail. > NB: sendmail is now a link to /usr/sbin/dma, and there is a -t flag > (like the real sendmail) to tell dma to take the recipient list from > the To:, Cc:, Bcc: headers in the file. > > I wrote then a 1 line script named sendmail: > /usr/sbin/dma -t > and that doesn't work.(there is nothing on stdin) > It seems that pine doesn't put the mail in stdin when calling sendmail. > So, how does it send the file? -- Dennis Davis, BUCS, University of Bath, Bath, BA2 7AY, UK D.H.Davis@bath.ac.uk Phone: +44 1225 386101 From schamane at fam.tuwien.ac.at Thu Oct 13 04:02:48 2011 From: schamane at fam.tuwien.ac.at (Andreas Schamanek) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] using dma with alpine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Pierre, On Thu, 13 Oct 2011, at 12:31, Pierre Frenkiel wrote: > I wrote then a 1 line script named sendmail: /usr/sbin/dma -t > and that doesn't work.(there is nothing on stdin) I am using a script, too, and it works since ages. Of course, the message is on stdin. Try "cat >> mail.tmp". Make sure the script is executable, that it actually works (on the command line), and that it is in the Alpine config (sendmail-path). HTH, -- -- Andreas From pierre.frenkiel at gmail.com Thu Oct 13 06:50:28 2011 From: pierre.frenkiel at gmail.com (Pierre Frenkiel) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] using dma with alpine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Oct 2011, Dennis Davis wrote: > smtp-server= > sendmail-path=/usr/sbin/dma -t I also found that in the pine doc, and that works. but I'm still curious to understand how the mail is passed to sendmail without this setting. Thnaks for your reply best regards, -- Pierre Frenkiel From pierre.frenkiel at gmail.com Thu Oct 13 07:44:46 2011 From: pierre.frenkiel at gmail.com (Pierre Frenkiel) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] using dma with alpine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Oct 2011, Andreas Schamanek wrote: > I am using a script, too, and it works since ages. Of course, the > message is on stdin. Try "cat >> mail.tmp". I did that, and got nothing in mail.tmp, until I discovered that it works when setting sendmail-path. Without that, pine also uses sendmail, but how does it give the file to sendmail? best regards, -- Pierre Frenkiel From D.H.Davis at bath.ac.uk Thu Oct 13 08:12:47 2011 From: D.H.Davis at bath.ac.uk (Dennis Davis) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] log file In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Oct 2011, Pierre Frenkiel wrote: > From: Pierre Frenkiel > To: alpine-info@u.washington.edu > Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2011 19:42:39 > Subject: [Alpine-info] log file > > Up to now, I used a MTA (masqmail) to send my mails, and it > had a log file showing for for each sent mail the time and the > destination. Now that I use the smtp-server setting, I would > like to have an equivalent information. Is it possible with > pine? I tried the -d flag, but even with -d 1, there is too much > information, and not the one I want. Don't think you can do this directly with pine/alpine. As the manual page implies, the -d argument is there to provide debugging information and not long-term logging information. What you should be able to do is have your MTA (masqmail, exim, postfix etc) just listen on the loopback address. Configure your MTA to handle email from your machine, eg forward it to your ISP's smarthost. Then setup pine/alpine's configuration file and set: smtp-server=localhost so it sends mail via your MTA. Your MTA's logs will then include the information you require. I'm not familiar with masqmail, but a quick read of the manual page indicates that this should be possible. This email is being sent with them exim MTA configured as above. Look at the expanded headers and you'll see a lines of the form: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (port=20865 helo=localhost) by ancho.bath.ac.uk with esmtp (envelope-from ) id 1REMhP-000608-0Y ... indicating this. The lines immediately above these lines will be of the form: Received: from ancho.bath.ac.uk ([138.38.56.202]) by prost.bath.ac.uk with esmtps (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4) (envelope-from ) id 1REMhP-0000JP-A2 ... Indicating relaying through one of our smarthosts: prost.bath.ac.uk mansell.bath.ac.uk senna.bath.ac.uk piquet.bath.ac.uk (No, I didn't name these machines. I'd have named them after Tour de France cyclists :-) -- Dennis Davis, BUCS, University of Bath, Bath, BA2 7AY, UK D.H.Davis@bath.ac.uk Phone: +44 1225 386101 From pierre.frenkiel at gmail.com Thu Oct 13 08:22:19 2011 From: pierre.frenkiel at gmail.com (Pierre Frenkiel) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] log file In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Oct 2011, Dennis Davis wrote: > What you should be able to do is have your MTA (masqmail, exim, > postfix etc) just listen on the loopback address. Configure your > MTA to handle email from your machine, eg forward it to your ISP's > smarthost. hi Dennis, It's exactly what I did, as I said in an other thread, using the dma MTA, which is perfect for that: it doesn't need any smarthost, but only to set the sendmail-path variable. best regards, -- Pierre Frenkiel From rick+alpine at helix.nih.gov Thu Oct 13 08:29:24 2011 From: rick+alpine at helix.nih.gov (Rick Troxel) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] using dma with alpine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Today (10/13/11) at 15:50 +0200, Pierre Frenkiel wrote: > but I'm still curious to understand how the mail is passed to > sendmail without this setting. To pipe to sendmail is the built-in default when alpine's smtp-server configuration variable is unset. Best regards, -- Rick Troxel, Helix Systems Staff From pierre.frenkiel at gmail.com Thu Oct 13 09:57:05 2011 From: pierre.frenkiel at gmail.com (Pierre Frenkiel) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] using dma with alpine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Oct 2011, Rick Troxel wrote: > To pipe to sendmail is the built-in default when alpine's smtp-server > configuration variable is unset. I would expect that, but according all the tests I made, that's not true: I did them once again before replying, and that gave, as before, with the following script for sendmail: date >> /tmp/sm.log cat >> /tmp/sm.log and the result was: 1/ with smtp-server and sendmail-path unset only the date is written in the log file, which proves that sendmail is actually called, but with nothing in stdin 2/ with smtp-server unset and sendmail-path=/usr/sbin/sendmail the log shows the date AND the complete mail (headers and body) How do you explain that? Can you reproduce these tests? best regards, -- Pierre Frenkiel From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Thu Oct 13 23:47:26 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Alpine - multiple accounts: Age Interval syntax, retaining flagged messages, sending with AOL? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 12 Oct 2011, James Freer wrote: > Thanks for the reply. I've done it but it was a little disappointing on > the speed side. I realised there would be a delay with sorting but it is > so slow it's barely worth trying. In the past i've flagged [starred] > important messages and then selected unflagged and deleted manually - > that seems the best way all things considered. > > unless anyone has any bright ideas! Have we discussed "keywords?" I just found that feature. Read on... -------begin text I wrote about a feature I didn't think existed------- Does anyone else think it would be worthwhile to have an alphanumeric flagging system? Instead of just "Important" (*) or "not Important" (not *), we could allow use of single character. People could develop their own schemes using A, B, C or 1, 2, 3. It seems like right now we have a status field in our indexes and a separate importance field. The importance can be * or empty. How much work would it be to add an option to "enable importance codes" -- single byte codes -- and make it possible to search the importance field for any selected code? -------end text I wrote about a feature I didn't think existed------- Oops. I just figured out that this feature already exists in Alpine. It allows us to define keywords which are stored in the X-Keywords field of the mail header. I can see that "Forwarded" is considered a "status" in my Alpine even though the data about forwarding is stored in the X-Keywords header field. Maybe that is because I selected [x]Enable Flag Screen Keyword Shortcut. You really should look at that -- I think it is what you need. From an index do this to get to configuration: MSC Then use ctrl-W to search for "keyword" without the quotes. For each item you land on, hit the question mark to get help and read it. Maybe that does what you need. It's amazing how much there is hidden away behind the scenes in Alpine. Mike From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Sat Oct 15 09:03:59 2011 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Two Unresolved Issues: Character Set and 'X' in Quoted Response [RESOLVED] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 21 Sep 2011, Lucio Chiappetti wrote: > I also have the following resources in .Xdefaults > > URxvt.font: -misc-fixed-medium-r-normal--20-200-75-75-c-100-iso10646-1 > URxvt.boldFont: -misc-fixed-medium-r-normal--20-200-75-75-c-100-iso10646-1 Lucio, Those two lines appear to do the trick. I downloaded the UTF-8 demo text file and it displays properly in a virtual terminal. So I assume it will also work in alpine. Thanks very much, Rich From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Sat Oct 15 11:43:20 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Two Unresolved Issues: Character Set and 'X' in Quoted Response [RESOLVED] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, 15 Oct 2011, Rich Shepard wrote: > On Wed, 21 Sep 2011, Lucio Chiappetti wrote: > >> I also have the following resources in .Xdefaults >> >> URxvt.font: -misc-fixed-medium-r-normal--20-200-75-75-c-100-iso10646-1 >> URxvt.boldFont: -misc-fixed-medium-r-normal--20-200-75-75-c-100-iso10646-1 > > Those two lines appear to do the trick. > > I downloaded the UTF-8 demo text file and it displays properly in a > virtual terminal. So I assume it will also work in alpine. I think we need a FAQ page, or do we already have one? There was a pretty extensive discussion of this issue a couple of years ago, or so. It took me forever to figure out my problems. It turned out that I needed the right Alpine settings, the right system settings, the right terminal and the right fonts. One of my first big mistakes was using rxvt instead of urxvt -- I could never succeed with rxvt no matter what I changed on the system, but I had no idea about that until someone here told me. The benefit of rxvt was supposed to be that it used less memory than xterm, but I did some comparisons and wasn't finding a difference, or maybe xterm was actually doing better on memory than urxvt. Anyway, I've been using xterm on Ubuntu and it has been fine. Mike From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Sat Oct 15 11:57:48 2011 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Two Unresolved Issues: Character Set and 'X' in Quoted Response [RESOLVED] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, 15 Oct 2011, Mike Miller wrote: > One of my first big mistakes was using rxvt instead of urxvt -- I could never > succeed with rxvt no matter what I changed on the system, but I had no idea > about that until someone here told me. Mike, I've been using rxvt for years and only recently had the need to change the locale to UTF-8. Now urxvt is working well for me in alpine (although it presents differently when I finish editing a reply and go to send it). But, now I have a non-alpine issue: getting urxvt to use the color settings in /etc/DIR_COLORS for directories, tarballs, images and other file types when I issue the 'ls' command. I'm working on resolving that. Thanks for your thoughts, Rich From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Sat Oct 15 12:24:15 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Two Unresolved Issues: Character Set and 'X' in Quoted Response [RESOLVED] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, 15 Oct 2011, Rich Shepard wrote: > I've been using rxvt for years and only recently had the need to change > the locale to UTF-8. Now urxvt is working well for me in alpine > (although it presents differently when I finish editing a reply and go > to send it). But, now I have a non-alpine issue: getting urxvt to use > the color settings in /etc/DIR_COLORS for directories, tarballs, images > and other file types when I issue the 'ls' command. I'm working on > resolving that. Does urxvt work better for you than xterm? I'm using Ubuntu. And you? If you didn't change anything else on your system, I'm not sure what the problem is with colors. I assume you have an appropriate alias for ls that adds the desired --color=[something] option. Check this command: type ls Are you using the bash shell? I'm still seeing a lot lower memory usage for xterm than for urxvt on Ubuntu for some reason, completely invalidating the only reason I have heard for preferring urxvt. Mike From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Sat Oct 15 13:37:53 2011 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Two Unresolved Issues: Character Set and 'X' in Quoted Response [RESOLVED] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, 15 Oct 2011, Mike Miller wrote: > Does urxvt work better for you than xterm? I'm using Ubuntu. And you? It provides me the options I want so I switched to it quite a while ago. I run Slackware. > If you didn't change anything else on your system, I'm not sure what the > problem is with colors. I assume you have an appropriate alias for ls > that adds the desired --color=[something] option. Check this command: > type ls ls --color=tty -F This is an alias. Perhaps a different value for color? > Are you using the bash shell? Sure. > I'm still seeing a lot lower memory usage for xterm than for urxvt on > Ubuntu for some reason, completely invalidating the only reason I have > heard for preferring urxvt. I don't check the memory usage because I ordinarily don't stress the system. Rich From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Sun Oct 16 09:28:02 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Two Unresolved Issues: Character Set and 'X' in Quoted Response [RESOLVED] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, 15 Oct 2011, Rich Shepard wrote: > On Sat, 15 Oct 2011, Mike Miller wrote: > >> If you didn't change anything else on your system, I'm not sure what >> the problem is with colors. I assume you have an appropriate alias for >> ls that adds the desired --color=[something] option. Check this >> command: > >> type ls > > ls --color=tty -F > > This is an alias. Perhaps a different value for color? That's probably your problem. According to the less man page on my system, there is no "tty" option, so it probably reverts to the default, which is no color. From the man page: --color[=WHEN] control whether color is used to distinguish file types. WHEN may be `never', `always', or `auto' I suspect that people mostly like "auto" but I prefer "always". The reason is that I often pipe ls output to less and I want to see the colors in less. So I have these lines in my ~/.bashrc: alias ls='ls -F --color=always --show-control-chars' alias less='less -R' # raw control characters export LESSCHARSET=utf-8 When I need to pipe a directory listing without the colors, I turn off the ls aliases using a backslash. For example: \ls -1 These are my locale settings: $ locale LANG=en_US.UTF-8 LC_CTYPE="en_US.UTF-8" LC_NUMERIC="en_US.UTF-8" LC_TIME="en_US.UTF-8" LC_COLLATE=C LC_MONETARY="en_US.UTF-8" LC_MESSAGES="en_US.UTF-8" LC_PAPER="en_US.UTF-8" LC_NAME="en_US.UTF-8" LC_ADDRESS="en_US.UTF-8" LC_TELEPHONE="en_US.UTF-8" LC_MEASUREMENT="en_US.UTF-8" LC_IDENTIFICATION="en_US.UTF-8" LC_ALL= The truth is that I don't put my aliases in the ~/.bashrc but I put them in a ~/.bash_aliases file and I have this in ~/.bashrc instead: # Alias definitions. # You may want to put all your additions into a separate file like # ~/.bash_aliases, instead of adding them here directly. # See /usr/share/doc/bash-doc/examples in the bash-doc package. if [ -f ~/.bash_aliases ]; then . ~/.bash_aliases fi HTH, Mike From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Sun Oct 16 10:31:38 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Two Unresolved Issues: Character Set and 'X' in Quoted Response [RESOLVED] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Oct 2011, Mike Miller wrote: > According to the less man page on my system, there is no "tty" option, > so it probably reverts to the default, which is no color. From the man > page: > > --color[=WHEN] > control whether color is used to distinguish file types. WHEN > may be `never', `always', or `auto' It turns out that wasn't your problem. The 'tty' option is equivalent to 'auto' but this is not well-documented: $ \ls --color=baz /etc/ ls: invalid argument `baz' for `--color' Valid arguments are: - `always', `yes', `force' - `never', `no', `none' - `auto', `tty', `if-tty' Try `ls --help' for more information. Another thing I'm doing that I didn't mention is setting LS_COLORS in the bash environment. Are you doing that? This is definitely *not* the best way to go, but it is what I am doing in .bash_profile (which might not be the best place to put it): LS_COLORS="$(dircolors -b | grep ^LS_COLORS | perl -pe 's/^LS_COLORS=\047(.+)\047;$/$1/ ; s/(\*\.jpg=([^:]+:))/$1*.JPG=$2/g ; s/(\*\.jpeg=([^:]+:))/$1*.JPEG=$2/g ; s/(\*\.gif=([^:]+:))/$1*.GIF=$2/g ; s/(\*\\.bmp=([^:]+:))/$1*.BMP=$2/g ; s/(\*\.png=([^:]+:))/$1*.PNG=$2/g ; s/(\*\.mp3=([^:]+:))/$1*.MP3=$2/g ; s/(\*\.wav=([^:]+:))/$1*.WAV=$2/g')" export LS_COLORS I've been doing that because I didn't know where dircolors was getting the colors, so I just modified the LS_COLORS directly using perl. A shorter version that doesn't make any changes would look like this: LS_COLORS="$(dircolors -b | grep ^LS_COLORS)" export LS_COLORS That is working, but I don't know if it is necessary to set LS_COLORS in the ~/.bash* config files. More here: man dircolors info coreutils 'dircolors invocation' man dir_colors Mike From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Sun Oct 16 10:35:00 2011 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Two Unresolved Issues: Character Set and 'X' in Quoted Response [RESOLVED] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Oct 2011, Rich Shepard wrote: > On Sun, 16 Oct 2011, Mike Miller wrote: > >> That's probably your problem. According to the less man page on my >> system, there is no "tty" option, so it probably reverts to the >> default, > > It had been 'tty' for years and displayed color quite well. The problem > was having 'TERM urxvt' in /etc/DIR_COLORS rather than 'TERM > rxvt-unicode.' As soon as I made the change the colors displayed as they > had before. Excellent. Good to know. (I sent my last message before seeing yours.) I guess we're doing to much non-Alpine stuff on the Alpine list. Sorry. Mike From rshepard at appl-ecosys.com Sun Oct 16 10:49:08 2011 From: rshepard at appl-ecosys.com (Rich Shepard) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Two Unresolved Issues: Character Set and 'X' in Quoted Response [RESOLVED] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 16 Oct 2011, Mike Miller wrote: > Another thing I'm doing that I didn't mention is setting LS_COLORS in the > bash environment. Are you doing that? Nope. I have /etc/DIR_COLORS set and that works for me. Rich From unrtst at gmail.com Mon Oct 17 09:36:44 2011 From: unrtst at gmail.com (Joshua Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Sending multipart/alternative messages from pine? Message-ID: This is going to sound like a silly request/question, but is there a way (even if a bit complex) to send multipart/alternative messages from alpine (with one part text/plain, and one text/html). I've got to deal with a stupid recipient mail server that rejects text/plain emails with "invalid body type". I've pointed it out, had managers there request me to be whitelisted, etc, etc, and it still rejects my emails from alpine. If it weren't work related, I would simply stop dealing with that recipient and tell them they need to provide an address that works if they want to hear from me, but I'm stuck with it for the time being. Luckily, it's only one small group in our company. I did find a thread mentioning that one can setup a filter to apply that'll change the mime type using a small script and: sending-filters=/full/path/to/change_mime _TMPFILE_ _MIMETYPE_ http://groups.google.com/group/comp.mail.headers/browse_thread/thread/a59f4ad6937feb8/60cc79f8b586ecb0?lnk=gst&q=html#60cc79f8b586ecb0 Could some sort of sending filter take the plain text body, and jack it into a multipart/alternative message (adding minor html formatting to the text/html part - just

tags really)? I've tried building one, using perl and MIME::Lite to make the multipart body, but it just comes through as though it was a text/plain body (displaying the message boundary and both parts raw). I'm guessing the easiest way is just for me to use a different mail client for those specific cases, but I'm stubborn. I've looked at the FAQ's and searched the group archive and the web, and haven't ran into an answer either way. It wouldn't surprise me if this is a rare case (who the hell rejects text/plain messages!?!). I'm fluent in perl, and willing to put together a filter to do stuff, but I want to still work from within alpine, and I'm not sure how to hook something in. Sorry if this message is a huge waste of your time - but if you've got any ideas, please let me know :-) -- Josh I. From alpine-info at monkeybutt.com Mon Oct 17 16:40:02 2011 From: alpine-info at monkeybutt.com (Baron Fujimoto) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Preserve passwords setting? Message-ID: I've installed Alpine using MacPorts on two different machines. On one, I answered [n] when prompted to preserve the password used to connect to IMAP/SMTP servers. Preserve password for next login? [y]: I can't find the setting or option that will reset or change this to [y] though. Can somone point it out to me? Where are the passwords saved? Are they encrypted? From mattack at apple.com Mon Oct 17 17:29:42 2011 From: mattack at apple.com (Matt Ackeret) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Preserve passwords setting? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Oct 2011, Baron Fujimoto wrote: > I've installed Alpine using MacPorts on two different machines. On one, > I answered [n] when prompted to preserve the password used to connect to > IMAP/SMTP servers. > > Preserve password for next login? [y]: > > I can't find the setting or option that will reset or change this to [y] > though. Can somone point it out to me? Where are the passwords saved? > Are they encrypted? I'm not positive, but I think this is referring to using the keychain on Mac OS X. I'm not positive, since maybe this is a compile time option (for security reasons). (IIRC, there's also an INSECURE "passfile" option people dissuade people from using whenever it's mentioned.) If it *IS* the keychain saving I'm referring to, then it's saved in the same keychain database that all Mac OS X keychain items are saved in. You can use /Applications/Utilities/Keychain Access.app to look at what's in your keychain. If the keychain is locked, then it's as secure as the keychain is. Unfortunately, I don't know the answer to your main question.. Though maybe they store an item in the keychain specifically with a value indicating don't save passwords. (I see a many years old "UWash_Alpine_Prompt_For_Password" item, with the "password" of 1.) So if you open Keychain Access, and search for 'alpine', you may be able to figure this out. From chappa at gmx.com Mon Oct 17 18:47:36 2011 From: chappa at gmx.com (Eduardo Chappa) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Sending multipart/alternative messages from pine? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Oct 2011, Joshua Miller wrote: :) This is going to sound like a silly request/question, but is there a :) way (even if a bit complex) to send multipart/alternative messages from :) alpine (with one part text/plain, and one text/html). Dear Joshua, No, this is not possible from within Alpine. What you would have to do is to fake a sendmail command to pass the message to it, transform it and pass it to your real sendmail or an SMTP server. -- Eduardo http://patches.freeiz.com/alpine/ From lucio at lambrate.inaf.it Tue Oct 18 01:08:11 2011 From: lucio at lambrate.inaf.it (Lucio Chiappetti) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Sending multipart/alternative messages from pine? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Oct 2011, Joshua Miller wrote: > This is going to sound like a silly request/question, but is there a > way (even if a bit complex) to send multipart/alternative messages > from alpine (with one part text/plain, and one text/html). The question is not silly ... it's the reason :-) > I've got to deal with a stupid recipient mail server that rejects > text/plain emails with "invalid body type". That's actually the *silliest behaviour* I've ever seen !! Forcing people to use a stupid and redundant e-mail format :-( Consider that I generally FILTER e-mail I receive in multipart/alternative, scrubbing out the html part and replacing it with a one-line placeholder (but I do not delete the original, I store it offline for a week). All this is done via procmail http://sax.iasf-milano.inaf.it/~lucio/Procmail/noquotenohtml.html Anyhow are you really sure they want a full-fledged multipart-alternative, and not just a body tagged as text/html ? Or the presence of a text/html attachment ? In the first case, I'd play with the "Customized Header" in .pinerc adding a Content-Type (you could even define a Role according to the recipient address, which generates a customized header pre-filled with Content-Type: text/html). Then it's up to you whether to write the mail body in plain text, inserting

tags, or just wrapping it all in 

.

In the second case just write your normal e-mail and attach (control-J 
from main header) ANY html file (my inclination would be to add a 
"stupid.html" file which tells them how stupid they are :-) ).

I just tried that, apparently it generates a multipart/mixed message.
I do not believe it is much different from a multipart/alternative (I read 
the RFCs long ago, but I was interested in decoding such messages to get 
rid of the HTML part, not in encoding them).

I have no idea how easy it would be to generate a real 
multipart/alternative. I'm pretty sure I could do it writing the 
appropriate stuff (headers, separators and bodies) to a file and sending 
it straight with sendmail, but I'm not sure if pine will send a 
pre-composed attachment of the correct format without other modifications.

Good luck.

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lucio Chiappetti - INAF/IASF - via Bassini 15 - I-20133 Milano (Italy)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Citizens entrusted of public functions have the duty to accomplish them
with discipline and honour
                           [Art. 54 Constitution of the Italian Republic]
------------------------------------------------------------------------
For more info : http://www.iasf-milano.inaf.it/~lucio/personal.html
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From pierre.frenkiel at gmail.com  Wed Oct 19 08:37:58 2011
From: pierre.frenkiel at gmail.com (Pierre Frenkiel)
Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018
Subject: [Alpine-info] Preserve passwords setting?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Mon, 17 Oct 2011, Baron Fujimoto wrote:

> I've installed Alpine using MacPorts on two different machines.  On one,
> I answered [n] when prompted to preserve the password used to connect to
> IMAP/SMTP servers.
>
>   Preserve password for next login? [y]:
>
> I can't find the setting or option that will reset or change this to [y]
> though.  Can somone point it out to me?  Where are the passwords saved?

   By default, passwords are not saved, but if you do

      touch ~/.pine-passfile

    The next time you send a mail, after asking for your password,
    it asks whether you want to save it, and if you answer y,
    the password is saved, encrypted, in .pine-passfile.

    What is not so normal is that this feature can't be found in the pina doc
    I found it some days ago, googling for :alpine password", on the
    .u.washington.edu site

-- 
Pierre Frenkiel

From mattack at apple.com  Wed Oct 19 12:22:10 2011
From: mattack at apple.com (Matt Ackeret)
Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018
Subject: [Alpine-info] Preserve passwords setting?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 19 Oct 2011, Pierre Frenkiel wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Oct 2011, Baron Fujimoto wrote:
>
>> I've installed Alpine using MacPorts on two different machines.  On one,
>> I answered [n] when prompted to preserve the password used to connect to
>> IMAP/SMTP servers.
>>
>>  Preserve password for next login? [y]:
>>
>> I can't find the setting or option that will reset or change this to [y]
>> though.  Can somone point it out to me?  Where are the passwords saved?
>
>  By default, passwords are not saved, but if you do
>
>     touch ~/.pine-passfile
>
>   The next time you send a mail, after asking for your password,
>   it asks whether you want to save it, and if you answer y,
>   the password is saved, encrypted, in .pine-passfile.

But again, it's not encrypted well (right?  I'm just passing on what others
have said, so I may be spreading an urban legend)...

and on the Mac, which he's using, at least if it's compiled the right way,
it has built in Keychain support so it's at least theoretically more secure.

From alpine at benizi.com  Wed Oct 19 13:01:20 2011
From: alpine at benizi.com (Benjamin R. Haskell)
Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018
Subject: [Alpine-info] Preserve passwords setting?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 19 Oct 2011, Matt Ackeret wrote:

> On Wed, 19 Oct 2011, Pierre Frenkiel wrote:
>> On Mon, 17 Oct 2011, Baron Fujimoto wrote:
>>
>>> I've installed Alpine using MacPorts on two different machines.  On 
>>> one, I answered [n] when prompted to preserve the password used to 
>>> connect to IMAP/SMTP servers.
>>>
>>>  Preserve password for next login? [y]:
>>>
>>> I can't find the setting or option that will reset or change this to 
>>> [y] though.  Can somone point it out to me?  Where are the passwords 
>>> saved?
>>
>> By default, passwords are not saved, but if you do
>>
>>     touch ~/.pine-passfile
>>
>> The next time you send a mail, after asking for your password, it 
>> asks whether you want to save it, and if you answer y, the password 
>> is saved, encrypted, in .pine-passfile.
>
> But again, it's not encrypted well (right?  I'm just passing on what 
> others have said, so I may be spreading an urban legend)...

Correct, it's not encrypted well at all.  It's only safe from 
"accidental" decryption.  (`cat`ing the file won't show the password.) 
Given that the source code's freely available, the passfile can be 
"decrypted" at will.


> and on the Mac, which he's using, at least if it's compiled the right 
> way, it has built in Keychain support so it's at least theoretically 
> more secure.

Based on the re-alpine sources, yes, it should use keychain, if it's 
compiled to do so.  I think that requires:

 	--with-local-password-cache-method=OSX

passed to ./configure when building.  It's not quite clear, but in order 
for that to work, you may also have to pass:

 	--without-passfile

-- 
Best,
Ben

From alpine-info at monkeybutt.com  Wed Oct 19 13:32:58 2011
From: alpine-info at monkeybutt.com (Baron Fujimoto)
Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018
Subject: [Alpine-info] Preserve passwords setting?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

On Mon, 17 Oct 2011, Matt Ackeret wrote:

: On Mon, 17 Oct 2011, Baron Fujimoto wrote:
: > I've installed Alpine using MacPorts on two different machines.  On one,
: > I answered [n] when prompted to preserve the password used to connect to
: > IMAP/SMTP servers.
: >
: >   Preserve password for next login? [y]:
: >
: > I can't find the setting or option that will reset or change this to [y]
: > though.  Can somone point it out to me?  Where are the passwords saved?
: > Are they encrypted?
: 
: I'm not positive, but I think this is referring to using the keychain on
: Mac OS X.  I'm not positive, since maybe this is a compile time option (for
: security reasons).  (IIRC, there's also an INSECURE "passfile" option people
: dissuade people from using whenever it's mentioned.)
: 
: If it *IS* the keychain saving I'm referring to, then it's saved in the same
: keychain database that all Mac OS X keychain items are saved in.  You can
: use /Applications/Utilities/Keychain Access.app to look at what's in your
: keychain. If the keychain is locked, then it's as secure as the keychain is.
: 
: Unfortunately, I don't know the answer to your main question.. Though maybe
: they store an item in the keychain specifically with a value indicating don't
: save passwords.  (I see a many years old "UWash_Alpine_Prompt_For_Password"
: item, with the "password" of 1.)
: 
: So if you open Keychain Access, and search for 'alpine', you may be able
: to figure this out.

Ah, that was it.  The entry is indeed called "UWash_Alpine_Prompt_For_Password"
and if you delete it, you will be prompted to preserve the password next time
around.  Mahalo!

From hansstam at kpnplanet.nl  Wed Oct 19 13:54:18 2011
From: hansstam at kpnplanet.nl (Hans Stam)
Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018
Subject: [Alpine-info] installing Alpine..
Message-ID: <4E9F38FA.3010202@kpnplanet.nl>

Hello All..

I have just installed Joli OS in the cloud, Joli OS is based on Linux.
And I have no experience how to install Alpine in this Linux system.
I have downloaded the program, how must I install this program?
Any help is welcome!

Thanks

Hans



From unrtst at gmail.com  Wed Oct 19 17:14:16 2011
From: unrtst at gmail.com (Joshua Miller)
Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018
Subject: [Alpine-info] installing Alpine..
In-Reply-To: <4E9F38FA.3010202@kpnplanet.nl>
References: <4E9F38FA.3010202@kpnplanet.nl>
Message-ID: 

I'm not familliar with joli but, if you get the neccessary dev packages
installed, it's just: ./configure && make && make install

...from the shell, after untaring the source and cd'ing into the re-alpine
directory.

There are likely easier ways (using some pre-built binary package), but
that'll work. If you're missing some stuff, configure should tell you.

Sorry if that's not awfully helpful. You might want to reach out to the joli
support channels for distribution-specific help.
--
Josh I.
On Oct 19, 2011 4:54 PM, "Hans Stam"  wrote:

> Hello All..
>
> I have just installed Joli OS in the cloud, Joli OS is based on Linux.
> And I have no experience how to install Alpine in this Linux system.
> I have downloaded the program, how must I install this program?
> Any help is welcome!
>
> Thanks
>
> Hans
>
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> Alpine-info mailing list
> Alpine-info@u.washington.edu
> http://mailman13.u.washington.**edu/mailman/listinfo/alpine-**info
>
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From chappa at gmx.com  Wed Oct 19 17:48:17 2011
From: chappa at gmx.com (Eduardo Chappa)
Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018
Subject: [Alpine-info] Preserve passwords setting?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

On Mon, 17 Oct 2011, Matt Ackeret wrote:

:)  (IIRC, there's also an INSECURE "passfile" option people dissuade 
:) people from using whenever it's mentioned.)

I agree and not.

The password file has a weak encryption. If anyone gets its hand into it, 
it does not take much to decrypt it. Of course, someone has to get a hold 
of it for that to happen. For example, Alpine sets protection 0600 for it 
upon creation, and checks that it does not have a more permissive 
protection than this, so Alpine protects you as best as possible from 
yourself. Read the source code to see hot it is decrypted, etc.

Because of this, I encrypt my password file using a personal private 
certificate, so if anyone gets a hold of it they will need to know how to 
unlock my private certificate (the one used to sign S/MIME encrypted 
messages). There is no need to fear using a password file anymore, unless 
your hacker has the power of the cloud.

-- 
Eduardo
http://patches.freeiz.com/alpine/

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Wed Oct 19 21:55:48 2011
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018
Subject: [Alpine-info] Preserve passwords setting?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 19 Oct 2011, Benjamin R. Haskell wrote:

> On Wed, 19 Oct 2011, Matt Ackeret wrote:
>
>> But again, it's not encrypted well (right?  I'm just passing on what 
>> others have said, so I may be spreading an urban legend)...
>
> Correct, it's not encrypted well at all.  It's only safe from 
> "accidental" decryption.  (`cat`ing the file won't show the password.) 
> Given that the source code's freely available, the passfile can be 
> "decrypted" at will.

I think a lot of programs in UNIX/Linux environments use weak encryption 
of passwords and store them in a file that can only be read by the user. 
VNC is another example.  It doesn't bother me because someone will need to 
have my level of permissions to read the password file, so I'm about 99% 
screwed at that point anyway.  Strong encryption might make it seem like 
I'm more protected than I really am -- if someone had access to that file, 
they could have downloaded it to another system and run a decryption tool 
for days on end.

Mike

From malte.dik at web.de  Wed Oct 19 23:41:13 2011
From: malte.dik at web.de (malte.dik@web.de)
Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018
Subject: [Alpine-info] Connection timeouts blocking the interface
Message-ID: 

Hi,

by setting different timeout intervals for differnent timeout-settings 
and subsequent googling for the results I found out that, wether by my 
or the servers setting I get connection timeouts related to 
tcp-read-warning-timeout, which impacts can be dampened by setting 
former and tcp-query-timeout to the minimum of 5 seconds.

But it is just one server resulting in the block and the others should 
be accessible just fine, so is there a setting to show the connection 
timeout warning without blocking the _whole_ interface (even writing 
mails gets blocked)?

It would be so nice.


Sincerely,

Malte

From ole at cisco.com  Thu Oct 20 01:00:56 2011
From: ole at cisco.com (Ole Jacobsen)
Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018
Subject: [Alpine-info] How do I forward a message as an attachment with FULL
	headers?
Message-ID: 


I am trying to report some spam issues so I need to forward the entire 
message with all headers intact. I do the following:

1. H to get the full headers

2. F to forward

3. alpine asks "forward as an attachment?"

4. Y yes

Yet the attachment shows up WITHOUT the full headers.

What am I doing wrong?


Ole J. Jacobsen
Editor and Publisher,  The Internet Protocol Journal
Cisco Systems
Tel: +1 408-527-8972   Mobile: +1 415-370-4628
E-mail: ole@cisco.com  URL: http://www.cisco.com/ipj
Skype: organdemo


From ifettich at netsoft.ro  Thu Oct 20 01:12:37 2011
From: ifettich at netsoft.ro (Iosif Fettich)
Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018
Subject: [Alpine-info] How do I forward a message as an attachment with
	FULL headers?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

Hi Ole,

> I am trying to report some spam issues so I need to forward the entire
> message with all headers intact. I do the following:
>
> 1. H to get the full headers
>
> 2. F to forward
>
> 3. alpine asks "forward as an attachment?"
>
> 4. Y yes
>
> Yet the attachment shows up WITHOUT the full headers.
>
> What am I doing wrong?

Nothing - it's ok what you're doing, or at least it works for me.

Just don't forget to re-enable H (full headers) when you're checking the 
sent attachment :)

Best regards,

Iosif Fettich

From alpine at nephros.org  Thu Oct 20 01:40:32 2011
From: alpine at nephros.org (Peter Gantner)
Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018
Subject: [Alpine-info] How do I forward a message as an attachment with
	FULL headers?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: <4E9FDE80.7080609@nephros.org>

On 2011-10-20 10:12, Iosif Fettich wrote:
> Hi Ole,
> 
>> I am trying to report some spam issues so I need to forward the entire
>> message with all headers intact. I do the following:
>>
>> 1. H to get the full headers
>>
>> 2. F to forward
>>
>> 3. alpine asks "forward as an attachment?"
>>
>> 4. Y yes
>>
>> Yet the attachment shows up WITHOUT the full headers.
>>
>> What am I doing wrong?
> 
> Nothing - it's ok what you're doing, or at least it works for me.
> 
> Just don't forget to re-enable H (full headers) when you're checking the
> sent attachment :)

Another possibility is to [B]ounce the whole message but then you won't
be able to comment on it.

If the recipient is a machine (automated bayes-learning etc) than this
is what you went.

I have a spamassassin script learning from messages to spam@mydomain and
hamnotspam@mydomain, and bouncing is the right way to send messages there.

HTH,
  Peter G.

From david at post.tau.ac.il  Thu Oct 20 03:01:55 2011
From: david at post.tau.ac.il (David Sitman)
Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018
Subject: [Alpine-info] How do I forward a message as an attachment with
	FULL headers?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 20 Oct 2011, Ole Jacobsen wrote:

> I am trying to report some spam issues so I need to forward the entire
> message with all headers intact. I do the following:
>
> 1. H to get the full headers
>
> 2. F to forward
>
> 3. alpine asks "forward as an attachment?"
>
> 4. Y yes

For spam reporting, I use:

4. N no

and then the full headers appear in the body of the forwarded message.

David Sitman
Tel Aviv University

From ifettich at netsoft.ro  Thu Oct 20 03:16:45 2011
From: ifettich at netsoft.ro (Iosif Fettich)
Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018
Subject: [Alpine-info] How do I forward a message as an attachment with
	FULL headers?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 20 Oct 2011, David Sitman wrote:

> On Thu, 20 Oct 2011, Ole Jacobsen wrote:
>
>> I am trying to report some spam issues so I need to forward the entire
>> message with all headers intact. I do the following:
>> 
>> 1. H to get the full headers
>> 
>> 2. F to forward
>> 
>> 3. alpine asks "forward as an attachment?"
>> 
>> 4. Y yes
>
> For spam reporting, I use:
>
> 4. N no
>
> and then the full headers appear in the body of the forwarded message.

That's OK for just the headers - but if the forwarded message has some 
attachments, those will be lost/bad built.

Did you never run against this ?

Thanks,

Iosif Fettich

From david at post.tau.ac.il  Thu Oct 20 03:46:07 2011
From: david at post.tau.ac.il (David Sitman)
Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018
Subject: [Alpine-info] How do I forward a message as an attachment with
	FULL headers?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 20 Oct 2011, Iosif Fettich wrote:

> On Thu, 20 Oct 2011, David Sitman wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 20 Oct 2011, Ole Jacobsen wrote:
>> 
>>> I am trying to report some spam issues so I need to forward the entire
>>> message with all headers intact. I do the following:
>>> 
>>> 1. H to get the full headers
>>> 
>>> 2. F to forward
>>> 
>>> 3. alpine asks "forward as an attachment?"
>>> 
>>> 4. Y yes
>> 
>> For spam reporting, I use:
>> 
>> 4. N no
>> 
>> and then the full headers appear in the body of the forwarded message.
>
> That's OK for just the headers - but if the forwarded message has some 
> attachments, those will be lost/bad built.
>
> Did you never run against this ?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Iosif Fettich

For our spam reporting, only the full headers are of interest. _David

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Thu Oct 20 08:26:57 2011
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018
Subject: [Alpine-info] How do I forward a message as an attachment with
	FULL headers?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 20 Oct 2011, Iosif  Fettich wrote:

> On Thu, 20 Oct 2011, David Sitman wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 20 Oct 2011, Ole Jacobsen wrote:
>> 
>>> I am trying to report some spam issues so I need to forward the entire
>>> message with all headers intact. I do the following:
>>> 
>>> 1. H to get the full headers
>>> 
>>> 2. F to forward
>>> 
>>> 3. alpine asks "forward as an attachment?"
>>> 
>>> 4. Y yes
>> 
>> For spam reporting, I use:
>> 
>> 4. N no
>> 
>> and then the full headers appear in the body of the forwarded message.
>
> That's OK for just the headers - but if the forwarded message has some 
> attachments, those will be lost/bad built.
>
> Did you never run against this ?


Another tactic I have used is to save the message in a new folder.  You 
might call the folder spam.txt.  Then use ctrl-R to insert that folder 
(mail/spam.txt on my system) into your message.  It will have an initial 
14 lines or so of Alpine folder management info on top that you can delete 
out before sending.  After sending, you can delete that spam.txt folder.

That should provide the attachments, too.

Mike

From b.j.casavant at ieee.org  Thu Oct 20 12:25:42 2011
From: b.j.casavant at ieee.org (Brent Casavant)
Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018
Subject: [Alpine-info] Index colors for participant outside domain
Message-ID: 

Hello,

For my work I email almost exclusively with other people within my
company, though there are exceptions.  I'm interested in having
Alpine use a unique (and highly visible) index color whenever *any*
participant in an email exchange is from outside my company, so
that I can be more careful about things like not divulging proprietary
information or phrasing my thoughts a little more diplomatically.

I haven't been able to figure out a way to get the index coloring
to do this.  The participant pattern normally ends up meaning
"Match if any participant matches this pattern".  If inverted with
a "!", the particpant pattern ends up meaning "Match if no
participants match this pattern".  Neither of these really does
what I need, which is "Match if any participant does not match
this pattern".

Example: Participants are alice@mycompany.com, brent@mycompany.com
(that'd be me), and carol@customer.com.  I'd like the unique
index color to occur when Carol is a participant.  I could set up
a rule to catch "customer.com", but I'd also like the unique index
color to occur when dave@client.com, ella@consumer.com, or
frank@supplier.com is a participant, some of whom I've never heard
from before so I certainly don't have a rule for their specific
domain.

Any ideas on how to solve this would be appreciated.

Brent

-- 
Brent Casavant				If you had nothing to fear,
www.angeltread.org			how then could you be brave?
KD5EMB, EN34lv				  -- Queen Dama, Source Wars

From schamane at fam.tuwien.ac.at  Thu Oct 20 12:38:47 2011
From: schamane at fam.tuwien.ac.at (Andreas Schamanek)
Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018
Subject: [Alpine-info] Sending multipart/alternative messages from  pine?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 


Hi Josh,

On Mon, 17 Oct 2011, at 12:36, Joshua Miller wrote:

> sending-filters=/full/path/to/change_mime _TMPFILE_ _MIMETYPE_
...
> Could some sort of sending filter take the plain text body, and jack
> it into a multipart/alternative message (adding minor html formatting
> to the text/html part - just 
 tags really)?

I never used sending-filters before and I wanted to see what it does. 
So, thanks for the incentive. What you found was very helpful, and I 
think it might do what you need.

I created a simple shell script htmlme.sh to be used as "sending 
filter" which -- in Alpine's config -- is set to be run as

  /home/schamane/htmlme.sh _MIMETYPE_ _RESULTFILE_

The script simply reads (what you might want to adjust of course):

#!/bin/bash
# Tell Alpine about the new MIME type
echo "Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-15" >"$1"
# Print out the message wrapped in HTML tags
echo "
"
# Read from stdin, convert to HTML, write to stdout
recode ..html
echo "
"
# Tell Alpine that we are done
echo "htmlme.sh done" >"$2"

This converts the message to text/html. Obviously, it depends on 
"recode" (or any other program) to do the conversion. One might also 
use "cat" if the text is already valid HTML.

This approach does not include a text/plain alternative!
Use at your own risk ;)

-- 
-- Andreas


From chappa at gmx.com  Thu Oct 20 15:08:48 2011
From: chappa at gmx.com (Eduardo Chappa)
Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018
Subject: [Alpine-info] Index colors for participant outside domain
Message-ID: <20111020220848.53170@gmx.com>

> For my work I email almost exclusively with other people within my
> company, though there are exceptions. I'm interested in having
> Alpine use a unique (and highly visible) index color whenever *any*
> participant in an email exchange is from outside my company, so
> that I can be more careful about things like not divulging proprietary
> information or phrasing my thoughts a little more diplomatically.

Dear Brent,

 ?Have you tried using three different rules? (one for ! From, 
another for ! To, and another for ! Cc). I would see if that does 
what you want.

 ?If you want to centralize your rule (so that in case you want to modify
the colors you only do it once), then use scores and write three different 
rules for scores, and make the index color rule depend on scores. In this
case, you would assign a score rule that assigns a score, say 10, to every
message that is ! From your company, then in the index color rules you
define it to be active if the score is in the interval (5, INF).

 ?That would do what you want, I think.

-- 
Eduardo
http://patches.freeiz.com/alpine/



From b.j.casavant at ieee.org  Thu Oct 20 16:14:55 2011
From: b.j.casavant at ieee.org (Brent Casavant)
Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018
Subject: [Alpine-info] Index colors for participant outside domain
In-Reply-To: <20111020220848.53170@gmx.com>
References: <20111020220848.53170@gmx.com>
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 20 Oct 2011, Eduardo Chappa wrote:

> > For my work I email almost exclusively with other people within my
> > company, though there are exceptions. I'm interested in having
> > Alpine use a unique (and highly visible) index color whenever *any*
> > participant in an email exchange is from outside my company, so
> > that I can be more careful about things like not divulging proprietary
> > information or phrasing my thoughts a little more diplomatically.
> 
> Dear Brent,
> 
>  ?Have you tried using three different rules? (one for ! From, 
> another for ! To, and another for ! Cc). I would see if that does 
> what you want.
> 
>  ?If you want to centralize your rule (so that in case you want to modify
> the colors you only do it once), then use scores and write three different 
> rules for scores, and make the index color rule depend on scores. In this
> case, you would assign a score rule that assigns a score, say 10, to every
> message that is ! From your company, then in the index color rules you
> define it to be active if the score is in the interval (5, INF).

I'll give the scoring a try, because I'm fairly certain the
!From !To !Cc won't work (I can't think of a combination that
will trigger appropriately under a mix of in-domain and out-domain
addresses which could appear in any of those fields).

Centralizing the rule isn't a big deal, but this scoring method sounds
like it might be just what the doctor ordered.  I'll give it a try!

Brent

-- 
Brent Casavant				If you had nothing to fear,
www.angeltread.org			how then could you be brave?
KD5EMB, EN34lv				  -- Queen Dama, Source Wars
From whitesp at wustl.edu  Wed Oct 26 08:18:14 2011
From: whitesp at wustl.edu (White, Stephen)
Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018
Subject: [Alpine-info] Requiring a password for sending 
Message-ID: <62D26B7528CCFC4F9F717853E4CE12743115657396@WUSMEXMBX3.medpriv.wucon.wustl.edu>

Hello,

We have alpine set up such that it uses the localhost for sending e-mails and a password is not required.

If you send an e-mail to any e-mail address not on the local domain, no username and password are requested.

If you send an e-mail to a valid account on the local domain, no username and password are requested.

If you try to send an e-mail to an invalid account on the local domain, alpine asks for a username and password:

HOST: localhost  ENTER LOGIN NAME [anyuser] :

This should not be happening, they should be able to send to an invalid account without authenticating, does anyone have any idea why this might be happening? Google and mailing list archive searches have not been fruitful or I wouldn't be bothering you guys.

Thanks so much,

Stephen White
Washington University St. Louis
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From jessejazza3.uk at gmail.com  Wed Oct 26 12:57:58 2011
From: jessejazza3.uk at gmail.com (James Freer)
Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018
Subject: [Alpine-info] Pico
Message-ID: 

[using xubuntu 10.04] - the question is regarding the use of Pico for
text 'word' editing rather than programming lines.

I hope it's alright to ask a quick question about Pico on here. It's
quite basic.

Whilst using Alpine having got used to Pico i've decided to use it for
editing. Until now i've been using Leafpad for basic editing. It seems
the graphical editors automatically wordwrap any file if the option
wordwrap is ticked in Options > wordrap.

In Pico if one does ^J and saves the file the wordwrap is set next
time the file is opened. If i use Leafpad and uncheck the wordrap
option the opened file is wordwrapped.

So how is the text file altered by Pico [i've compared with nano and
so it appears this is the case with most text editors]. I was
wondering if there was an option for opening all files with wordwrap
set like there is with nano [according to man pico there isn't unless
i missed it!].

thanks
james

From unrtst at gmail.com  Wed Oct 26 13:29:47 2011
From: unrtst at gmail.com (Joshua Miller)
Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018
Subject: [Alpine-info] Pico
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 3:57 PM, James Freer wrote:

> [using xubuntu 10.04] - the question is regarding the use of Pico for
> text 'word' editing rather than programming lines.
>
> I hope it's alright to ask a quick question about Pico on here. It's
> quite basic.
>
> Whilst using Alpine having got used to Pico i've decided to use it for
> editing. Until now i've been using Leafpad for basic editing. It seems
> the graphical editors automatically wordwrap any file if the option
> wordwrap is ticked in Options > wordrap.
>
> In Pico if one does ^J and saves the file the wordwrap is set next
> time the file is opened. If i use Leafpad and uncheck the wordrap
> option the opened file is wordwrapped.
>
> So how is the text file altered by Pico [i've compared with nano and
> so it appears this is the case with most text editors]. I was
> wondering if there was an option for opening all files with wordwrap
> set like there is with nano [according to man pico there isn't unless
> i missed it!].
>
>
I use vim almost exclusively, so take my advice with a grain of salt :-)

nano --softwrap 
this will do a softwrap, and I think it's what you're talking about.

The ^J in pico/nano performs a hard wrap / justification, entering new lines
at the "--fill" width (defaults to -8 in nano, which is 8 characters before
the max width of your current terminal... you can set it to "80" to fix it
at that width).

I don't know of an option to do the ^J on the file by default at startup.
And I don't know of any --softwrap option for pico (though I imagine it has
to have something like that in the code somewhere... none of the help
options seem to do the trick)

pico, as it ships with alpine, is supposed to recognize the ~/.nanorc files.
For some reason, my copy of nano doesn't even appear to listen to that file
(set softwrap didn't do anything for me, and I had to use the command line
option --softwrap).

HTH
--
Josh I.
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From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Wed Oct 26 13:39:38 2011
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018
Subject: [Alpine-info] Pico
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 26 Oct 2011, James Freer wrote:

> [using xubuntu 10.04] - the question is regarding the use of Pico for 
> text 'word' editing rather than programming lines.
>
> I hope it's alright to ask a quick question about Pico on here. It's 
> quite basic.
>
> Whilst using Alpine having got used to Pico i've decided to use it for 
> editing. Until now i've been using Leafpad for basic editing. It seems 
> the graphical editors automatically wordwrap any file if the option 
> wordwrap is ticked in Options > wordrap.
>
> In Pico if one does ^J and saves the file the wordwrap is set next time 
> the file is opened. If i use Leafpad and uncheck the wordrap option the 
> opened file is wordwrapped.
>
> So how is the text file altered by Pico [i've compared with nano and so 
> it appears this is the case with most text editors]. I was wondering if 
> there was an option for opening all files with wordwrap set like there 
> is with nano [according to man pico there isn't unless i missed it!].


I was going to say this...

If you really want to use Pico instead of someothing more powerful like 
emacs, I recommend that you use Nano instead of Pico.  Nano clones Pico 
but improves on it.  It does syntax highlighting.  Look for good .nanorc 
files on the web.

...but then I realize that you've seen Nano.  I wonder if you realize that 
Nano is a Pico clone.  It's not really an independent product that you can 
use for comparison purposes to get an idea of what different editors are 
like.

I still recommend Nano instead of Pico.  What would be the advantage of 
using Pico instead of Nano?

There are two kinds of wrapping -- one is just an appearance of wrapping 
on the screen so that long lines don't go off the screen to the right. 
The other is adding newlines (or carriage-return/newlines in Windows) to 
actually change the file by making long lines into multiple shorter lines.

There is an option to control where lines wrap, and another to turn off 
automatic wrapping.  I don't think it is possible to turn off the ^J wrap 
feature, but it would be nice if it were possible.  Here are the options I 
use with nano:

nano -BFHRScikmwz -T8 -r74

-w turns off auto wrapping and -r makes it wrap at 74 columns if I use ^J. 
If you don't want it to wrap, but you hit ^J by mistake, hit ^U right away 
before moving your cursor and that will undo the accidental wrap.

Mike

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Wed Oct 26 13:57:13 2011
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018
Subject: [Alpine-info] Pico
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 26 Oct 2011, Joshua Miller wrote:

> On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 3:57 PM, James Freer wrote:
>
>> [using xubuntu 10.04] - the question is regarding the use of Pico for 
>> text 'word' editing rather than programming lines.
>>
>> I hope it's alright to ask a quick question about Pico on here. It's 
>> quite basic.
>>
>> Whilst using Alpine having got used to Pico i've decided to use it for 
>> editing. Until now i've been using Leafpad for basic editing. It seems 
>> the graphical editors automatically wordwrap any file if the option 
>> wordwrap is ticked in Options > wordrap.
>>
>> In Pico if one does ^J and saves the file the wordwrap is set next time 
>> the file is opened. If i use Leafpad and uncheck the wordrap option the 
>> opened file is wordwrapped.
>>
>> So how is the text file altered by Pico [i've compared with nano and so 
>> it appears this is the case with most text editors]. I was wondering if 
>> there was an option for opening all files with wordwrap set like there 
>> is with nano [according to man pico there isn't unless i missed it!].
>>
>>
> I use vim almost exclusively, so take my advice with a grain of salt :-)
>
> nano --softwrap 
> this will do a softwrap, and I think it's what you're talking about.


I sent my last message before seeing the one above.  Joshua makes a good 
point:  The --softwrap (-$) option was not available in my old nano 
(2.0.4, March 2009), so I didn't even know about it until now.  Looking at 
the newer version of Nano, I also see that there is an M-$ (Alt-$) toggle 
for that feature so that you can turn it on and off during an editing 
session.  When a long line is not soft-wrapped, you'll see a $ on the far 
right, but when it is soft-wrapped there will be no $.  That is not a 
perfect approach to the problem because a line might exactly fit the 
screen width and then you might think it is wrapped.

So, again, I think Nano is a better choice than Pico.

Mike

From chappa at gmx.com  Wed Oct 26 18:31:28 2011
From: chappa at gmx.com (Eduardo Chappa)
Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018
Subject: [Alpine-info] Requiring a password for sending 
In-Reply-To: <62D26B7528CCFC4F9F717853E4CE12743115657396@WUSMEXMBX3.medpriv.wucon.wustl.edu>
References: <62D26B7528CCFC4F9F717853E4CE12743115657396@WUSMEXMBX3.medpriv.wucon.wustl.edu>
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 26 Oct 2011, White, Stephen wrote:

:) If you try to send an e-mail to an invalid account on the local domain, 
:) alpine asks for a username and password:
:) 
:) HOST: localhost ENTER LOGIN NAME [anyuser] :
:) 
:) This should not be happening, they should be able to send to an invalid 
:) account without authenticating, does anyone have any idea why this 
:) might be happening?

Dear Stephen,

  I had a problem like the one you mention, when Alpine was Pine. At that 
time, I was in a system where teh server was accesible through rsh. In my 
case, I made a modification to the .cshrc file which resulted in Pine 
asking me for the password to access the server, when in fact, before I 
made those modifications I did not need to enter my password.

  In my case, the problem was that the rsh command would return an error 
code, which made Pine ask me for my password. As you see, the error was 
not that I could not login, but that the .cshrc file has an error. The 
problem went away when I fixed the .cshrc file.

  So my hunch is that what you are seeing is that localhost is returning 
an error code (there is an error after all), which Alpine interprets as 
"login failed", so it asks you to log in.

  I hope this makes sense.

-- 
Eduardo
http://patches.freeiz.com/alpine/

From chappa at gmx.com  Wed Oct 26 18:50:26 2011
From: chappa at gmx.com (Eduardo Chappa)
Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018
Subject: [Alpine-info] Pico
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 26 Oct 2011, James Freer wrote:

:) In Pico if one does ^J and saves the file the wordwrap is set next time 
:) the file is opened. If i use Leafpad and uncheck the wordrap option the 
:) opened file is wordwrapped.

Dear James,

  In Pico the last character of any line is always an end of line 
character. What this means is that if you see 3 lines in the screen, then 
there are three end of line characters, that is Pico edits "fixed text", 
or does not edit in "flowed text" mode, where long lines would be 
*displayed* across several lines. 

  The ^J command is used to reflow text found in the same paragraph, and 
this is altered to add end of line characters in each line, so you can use 
the ^J command at any time to place these characters in your file. You can 
reflow a full file with the ^W ^U command. There is no command to unflow a 
paragraph into one line.

-- 
Eduardo
http://patches.freeiz.com/alpine/

From mbmiller+l at gmail.com  Wed Oct 26 21:23:39 2011
From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018
Subject: [Alpine-info] Pico
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 26 Oct 2011, Eduardo Chappa wrote:

> On Wed, 26 Oct 2011, James Freer wrote:
>
> :) In Pico if one does ^J and saves the file the wordwrap is set next time
> :) the file is opened. If i use Leafpad and uncheck the wordrap option the
> :) opened file is wordwrapped.
>
> Dear James,
>
>  In Pico the last character of any line is always an end of line 
> character. What this means is that if you see 3 lines in the screen, 
> then there are three end of line characters, that is Pico edits "fixed 
> text", or does not edit in "flowed text" mode, where long lines would be 
> *displayed* across several lines.
>
>  The ^J command is used to reflow text found in the same paragraph, and 
> this is altered to add end of line characters in each line, so you can 
> use the ^J command at any time to place these characters in your file. 
> You can reflow a full file with the ^W ^U command. There is no command 
> to unflow a paragraph into one line.


If you are editing a long line and you hit ^J, that will "flow the line" 
producing multiple lines, but if you hit ^U right away, that will unflow 
the paragraph back into a single line.

It's slightly more complicated than that, but the ^U always undoes the ^J 
that immediately preceded it.

Regarding end-of-line characters -- I don't know if there is a Pico for 
Windows, but I'll bet if there is one it uses the 
carriage-return/line-feed double-character end-of-line "character."  In 
UNIX/Linux/OSX, there is a single end-of-line character, but in Windows it 
is a pair of characters.

Mike

From chappa at gmx.com  Wed Oct 26 21:35:30 2011
From: chappa at gmx.com (Eduardo Chappa)
Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018
Subject: [Alpine-info] Pico
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Wed, 26 Oct 2011, Mike Miller wrote:

:) If you are editing a long line and you hit ^J, that will "flow the 
:) line" producing multiple lines, but if you hit ^U right away, that will 
:) unflow the paragraph back into a single line.

Yes, but that is not what I was talking about. I was referring to the fact 
that the current paragraph that you are reading can not be transformed 
into one line by just pushing a button. You can do the opposite, as you 
point out, but not transform a random paragraph into a line at will.

:) It's slightly more complicated than that, but the ^U always undoes the ^J
:) that immediately preceded it.

Yes, that is correct.

:) Regarding end-of-line characters -- I don't know if there is a Pico for 
:) Windows, but I'll bet if there is one it uses the 
:) carriage-return/line-feed double-character end-of-line "character."  
:) In UNIX/Linux/OSX, there is a single end-of-line character, but in 
:) Windows it is a pair of characters.

Sure, but that is not the point. The point is that justification is the 
insertion of those characters in the text for the purpose of flwing 
correctly in the screen.

-- 
Eduardo
http://patches.freeiz.com/alpine/

From jessejazza3.uk at gmail.com  Thu Oct 27 16:36:30 2011
From: jessejazza3.uk at gmail.com (James Freer)
Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018
Subject: [Alpine-info] Pico
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

Thank you all for your replies.

Why use Pico instead of Nano?

Fair point - i'm an old fogey who did an engineering degree in the 80s
and used wordstar... still think their keybindings were the best for
typing. The wordstar clones Joe and e3 are ok but not in places so i'd
rather not use them. Perhaps i'm just a fussy so-and-so i like things
to work. To some extent i've gone over the graphical editors and quite
happy with Leafpad (particularly for fast loading uses like ItsAllText
in browser to post on forums) and gedit for more complicated things.
These of course wordwrap straight away.

Nano is supposed to be the #1 console editor after Vim and emacs [with
many linux distros]. I wasn't impressed at all by vim and emacs for
editing word text (compared with programmers code which is what they
were intended for primarily). I may be wrong on that point but that's
as i see it. With nano if you have your browser open and press Meta
key with left arrow or right arrow - the browser will close which i
discovered by accident as this is a common way of moving a word in
almost any graphical editor or word processor. M-? should take you to
last line (it does) but the alternative keystroke M-\ opens up the
search same with M-/. M-} indent and M-{ unindent - umm no. ^-space
and M-space excellent work as intended. Perhaps i'd be more at home
with Jove or mg which i'll have a look at and see how they work in
Alpine as the editor. For word text editing i just want something
simple which is rather different to your requirements in programming -
but i'm old fashioned i don't like glitches and like simplicity.

As i've started using alpine (although i've still got one or two
things to sort out on configuring as i'd like it) - thought i'd see
how i found Pico for doing text editing as i'm using it in Alpine.
Eduardo has sorted me out on this minor thing which i'm grateful for.
With text email no mouse speeds up editing - i've found ^k being my
favourite keystroke for all those signatures and trailers you have to
delete before replying... bottom posting seems to becoming the
standard.

thanks
james

From unrtst at gmail.com  Thu Oct 27 17:42:58 2011
From: unrtst at gmail.com (Joshua Miller)
Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018
Subject: [Alpine-info] Pico
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	
	
	
	
Message-ID: 

On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 7:36 PM, James Freer wrote:

> Thank you all for your replies.
>
> Why use Pico instead of Nano?
> ...

as i see it. With nano if you have your browser open and press Meta
> key with left arrow or right arrow - the browser will close which i
> discovered by accident as this is a common way of moving a word in
> almost any graphical editor or word processor. M-? should take you to
> last line (it does) but the alternative keystroke M-\ opens up the
> search same with M-/. M-} indent and M-{ unindent - umm no. ^-space
> and M-space excellent work as intended. Perhaps i'd be more at home
> ...


Hope I'm not beating a dead horse, but have you seen this:

 http://www.nano-editor.org/dist/v2.2/nanorc.5.html#KEY BINDINGS

Might cost you a little time to make it do what you want, but it seems
completely within the capabilities of nano to do your keybindings however
you like.

Good luck,
--
Josh i.
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From malte.dik at web.de  Mon Oct 31 08:58:24 2011
From: malte.dik at web.de (malte.dik@web.de)
Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018
Subject: [Alpine-info] Misspelled password
Message-ID: 

Hi,

I accidentally misspelled a password for one of the accounts. Is there a 
way to try again besides quitting alpine and starting again?


Kind regards,

Malte

From chappa at gmx.com  Mon Oct 31 11:18:21 2011
From: chappa at gmx.com (Eduardo Chappa)
Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018
Subject: [Alpine-info] Misspelled password
Message-ID: <20111031181822.53150@gmx.com>

> I accidentally misspelled a password for one of the accounts. Is there a 
> way to try again besides quitting alpine and starting again?

Malte,

 ?If your server disconnects you because of your failed attempt, there is nothing
you can do, except restart Alpine. Alpine keeps in memory the attempted password,
and will attempt it the next time you try to open that mailbox, which will result
in a never ending loop that you will not be able to break without restarting Alpine. 
Alpine was designed to work with a server that disconnects after the first attempt. 
If you want the password to be cleared from memory after it failed, you need to 
patch Alpine. Below is a link to a patch that does that, so you do not have to 
restart Alpine.

http://patches.freeiz.com/alpine/info/delpassword.html

I hope this helps you.

-- 
Eduardo
http://patches.freeiz.com/alpine/