From paul at ximz.com Mon Jan 2 10:00:22 2012 From: paul at ximz.com (Paul Jones Dayton) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Sent messages marked as unread Message-ID: <4F01F0B6.2030700@ximz.com> Is there a way to automatically mark messages that apline copies to my sent folder as read? It seems that by default sent messages appear as unread messages. From chappa at gmx.com Mon Jan 2 10:21:43 2012 From: chappa at gmx.com (Eduardo Chappa) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Sent messages marked as unread In-Reply-To: <4F01F0B6.2030700@ximz.com> References: <4F01F0B6.2030700@ximz.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Jan 2012, Paul Jones Dayton wrote: :) Is there a way to automatically mark messages that apline copies to my :) sent folder as read? It seems that by default sent messages appear as :) unread messages. Yes, press M S C and enable [X] Mark Fcc Seen Helpt text available at x-alpine-help:h_config_mark_fcc_seen -- Eduardo http://patches.freeiz.com/alpine/ From jyoung at lava.net Wed Jan 4 01:44:52 2012 From: jyoung at lava.net (Jackie M. Young) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Junk In Start Of Group Message-ID: Hi, I've been "talking" to Damion off-list about this issue (I'm a new subscriber), and he recommended that I ask the list because he wasn't sure about the solution. As a "lay" (but long-time) Pine/Alpine user, I've been having probs since my ISP went to a GMail/IMAP interface when Alpine starts up and I get a string "Junk in start of group", and then the beginning of what appears to be a bad sender name?? However, Damion doesn't think the prob is with the sender name, but with the GMail/IMAP interface (I'm using the only IMAP "lab" available through GMail). Any ideas on how I can get rid of this starting "Junk in start of group" string? It doesn't prevent me from using Alpine, but does delay the start-up and of course is rather irritating.....;/ Thanks! --Jackie From ruskie at codemages.net Wed Jan 4 04:26:48 2012 From: ruskie at codemages.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andra=C5=BE_'ruskie'_Levstik?=) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Junk In Start Of Group In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: :2012-01-04T04:44:Jackie M. Young: > Hi, I've been "talking" to Damion off-list about this issue (I'm a new > subscriber), and he recommended that I ask the list because he wasn't sure > about the solution. > > As a "lay" (but long-time) Pine/Alpine user, I've been having probs since my > ISP went to a GMail/IMAP interface when Alpine starts up and I get a string > "Junk in start of group", and then the beginning of what appears to be a bad > sender name?? > > However, Damion doesn't think the prob is with the sender name, but with the > GMail/IMAP interface (I'm using the only IMAP "lab" available through GMail). > > Any ideas on how I can get rid of this starting "Junk in start of group" > string? It doesn't prevent me from using Alpine, but does delay the start-up > and of course is rather irritating.....;/ Our company recently switched to gmail for mail needs and I've set it up in my alpine a few days ago. I must say I haven't gotten any issues at all with the interface other than some save operation once erroring out in the middle. Other than that I've been doing a lot of various things and haven't had any issues. -- Andra? 'ruskie' Levstik Source Mage GNU/Linux Games/Xorg grimoire guru Re-Alpine Coordinator http://sourceforge.net/projects/re-alpine/ Geek/Hacker/Tinker Show them the ropes and soon they've used that rope to build a bridge to their future. From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Wed Jan 4 06:57:52 2012 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Junk In Start Of Group In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Jan 2012, Jackie M. Young wrote: > As a "lay" (but long-time) Pine/Alpine user, I've been having probs > since my ISP went to a GMail/IMAP interface when Alpine starts up and I > get a string "Junk in start of group", and then the beginning of what > appears to be a bad sender name?? You literally see "Junk in start of group"? Where do you see that? Does it persist or does it just appear briefly? What do you mean by "a bad sender name"? Where does that appear? Mike From vi5u0-pineinfo at yahoo.co.uk Wed Jan 4 09:10:34 2012 From: vi5u0-pineinfo at yahoo.co.uk (Dan) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Junk In Start Of Group In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Jan 2012, Mike Miller wrote: > You literally see "Junk in start of group"? It may or may not help to know that this phrase appears in the alpine-2.00 source code, at line 4713 of . From jyoung at lava.net Wed Jan 4 12:04:16 2012 From: jyoung at lava.net (Jackie M. Young) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Junk In Start Of Group In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Jan 2012, Mike Miller wrote: > On Wed, 4 Jan 2012, Jackie M. Young wrote: > >> As a "lay" (but long-time) Pine/Alpine user, I've been having probs since >> my ISP went to a GMail/IMAP interface when Alpine starts up and I get a >> string "Junk in start of group", and then the beginning of what appears to >> be a bad sender name?? > > You literally see "Junk in start of group"? Where do you see that? Does it > persist or does it just appear briefly? What do you mean by "a bad sender > name"? Where does that appear? --Yes, the exact phrase, followed by the start of a seemingly "bad" header: [{imap.lava.net:143/imap/tls/novalidate-cert/user="jyoung"}inbox : Junk in start of group: pn= al=] This is after I've already entered "pine" and I've gone through a 2nd login, so it's right before Alpine finally starts up. It's temporary, but consistently there. Any help/ideas would be appreciated. ;=) Thanks, --Jackie From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Wed Jan 4 13:58:52 2012 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Junk In Start Of Group In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Jan 2012, Jackie M. Young wrote: > On Wed, 4 Jan 2012, Mike Miller wrote: > >> On Wed, 4 Jan 2012, Jackie M. Young wrote: >> >>> As a "lay" (but long-time) Pine/Alpine user, I've been having probs since >>> my ISP went to a GMail/IMAP interface when Alpine starts up and I get a >>> string "Junk in start of group", and then the beginning of what appears to >>> be a bad sender name?? >> >> You literally see "Junk in start of group"? Where do you see that? >> Does it persist or does it just appear briefly? What do you mean by "a >> bad sender name"? Where does that appear? > > --Yes, the exact phrase, followed by the start of a seemingly "bad" > header: > > [{imap.lava.net:143/imap/tls/novalidate-cert/user="jyoung"}inbox : Junk in start of group: pn= al=] > > This is after I've already entered "pine" and I've gone through a 2nd > login, so it's right before Alpine finally starts up. So it appears before the alpine screen appears and you don't see it again until you are done? If so, that is a pretty small problem, but you are wise to try to find out if it can be fixed or if it implies something more problematic at work. I remember the IMAP developer, previously on this list, telling us that Gmail doesn't use a proper IMAP protocol, or something to that effect, unlke Pine/Alpine. Maybe one of the developers will be interested in looking into this. Mike From jyoung at lava.net Wed Jan 4 17:18:19 2012 From: jyoung at lava.net (Jackie M. Young) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Junk In Start Of Group In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Jan 2012, Mike Miller wrote: > On Wed, 4 Jan 2012, Jackie M. Young wrote: > >> On Wed, 4 Jan 2012, Mike Miller wrote: >> >> > On Wed, 4 Jan 2012, Jackie M. Young wrote: >> > >> > > As a "lay" (but long-time) Pine/Alpine user, I've been having probs >> > > since >> > > my ISP went to a GMail/IMAP interface when Alpine starts up and I get >> > > a >> > > string "Junk in start of group", and then the beginning of what >> > > appears to >> > > be a bad sender name?? >> > >> > You literally see "Junk in start of group"? Where do you see that? Does >> > it persist or does it just appear briefly? What do you mean by "a bad >> > sender name"? Where does that appear? >> >> --Yes, the exact phrase, followed by the start of a seemingly "bad" >> header: >> >> [{imap.lava.net:143/imap/tls/novalidate-cert/user="jyoung"}inbox : Junk in >> start of group: pn= al=] >> >> This is after I've already entered "pine" and I've gone through a 2nd >> login, so it's right before Alpine finally starts up. > > > So it appears before the alpine screen appears and you don't see it again > until you are done? If so, that is a pretty small problem, but you are wise > to try to find out if it can be fixed or if it implies something more > problematic at work. > > I remember the IMAP developer, previously on this list, telling us that Gmail > doesn't use a proper IMAP protocol, or something to that effect, unlke > Pine/Alpine. Maybe one of the developers will be interested in looking into > this. --Hi Mike, yes, it's not a big problem, but there is a delay while all this "junk" is processing, and I'm not sure it's really necessary to see this while Alpine is loading.....;/ I wouldn't mind knowing the fix, if there is one out there..... Are there any developers still on the list, or how would I contact them? Thanks, --Jackie From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Wed Jan 4 18:48:39 2012 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Junk In Start Of Group In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Jan 2012, Jackie M. Young wrote: > Are there any developers still on the list, or how would I contact them? I think Alpine is not really under development but there is a new project called re-Alpine and they are working on it. You can probably report it somewhere here: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=re-alpine-bugs Dan (no last name given) wrote that the phrase "Junk in start of group" appears in the alpine-2.00 source code, at line 4713 of imap/src/c-client/imap4r1.c That should give them a good start. Mike From jyoung at lava.net Thu Jan 5 11:16:25 2012 From: jyoung at lava.net (Jackie M. Young) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Junk In Start Of Group In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Jan 2012, Mike Miller wrote: > On Wed, 4 Jan 2012, Jackie M. Young wrote: > >> Are there any developers still on the list, or how would I contact them? > > > I think Alpine is not really under development but there is a new project > called re-Alpine and they are working on it. You can probably report it > somewhere here: > > http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=re-alpine-bugs > > Dan (no last name given) wrote that the phrase "Junk in start of group" > appears in the alpine-2.00 source code, at line 4713 of > imap/src/c-client/imap4r1.c > > That should give them a good start. --Thanks!! ;) --Jackie From hubert at uw.edu Thu Jan 5 11:47:10 2012 From: hubert at uw.edu (Steve Hubert) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Junk In Start Of Group In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >>> --Yes, the exact phrase, followed by the start of a seemingly "bad" >>> header: >>> >>> [{imap.lava.net:143/imap/tls/novalidate-cert/user="jyoung"}inbox : Junk >>> in >>> start of group: pn= al=] >>> >>> This is after I've already entered "pine" and I've gone through a 2nd >>> login, so it's right before Alpine finally starts up. It means that it had trouble parsing an address in the header of some message in the mailbox you just opened. No doubt a message that contains ManilowHotline_manilow in a header. If you delete that message the warning will go away. Otherwise, the warning isn't harmful and isn't taking any extra time. Steve From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Thu Jan 5 15:22:51 2012 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Junk In Start Of Group In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Jan 2012, Steve Hubert wrote: >>>> --Yes, the exact phrase, followed by the start of a seemingly "bad" >>>> header: >>>> >>>> [{imap.lava.net:143/imap/tls/novalidate-cert/user="jyoung"}inbox : Junk >>>> in >>>> start of group: pn= al=] >>>> >>>> This is after I've already entered "pine" and I've gone through a 2nd >>>> login, so it's right before Alpine finally starts up. > > It means that it had trouble parsing an address in the header of some > message in the mailbox you just opened. No doubt a message that contains > ManilowHotline_manilow in a header. If you delete that message the > warning will go away. Otherwise, the warning isn't harmful and isn't > taking any extra time. Thanks for the info. Maybe you don't consider it to be a bug, then, but it might be preferrable to have it either print a usable warning or nothing at all instead of this stuff. I don't know why it is printing "Junk in start of group" to the screen. I also don't think that this is an invalid email address... ManilowHotline_manilow.com@bmsend.com ...so if Alpine cannot parse it, maybe there is a bug. I don't like seeing ".com" on the left of the "@", but I don't think there's anything really wrong with it. Mike From mattack at apple.com Thu Jan 5 15:43:10 2012 From: mattack at apple.com (Matt Ackeret) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Junk In Start Of Group In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Jan 2012, Mike Miller wrote: > I also don't think that this is an invalid email address... > > ManilowHotline_manilow.com@bmsend.com > > ...so if Alpine cannot parse it, maybe there is a bug. I don't like seeing > ".com" on the left of the "@", but I don't think there's anything really wrong > with it. Is it maybe too long (from the RFCs)? Or is it really the .com in the name? I don't think anybody's said specifically what the actual reason for the complaint by the code is (yes, I know someone gave the source line where it's happening). From vi5u0-pineinfo at yahoo.co.uk Thu Jan 5 16:22:38 2012 From: vi5u0-pineinfo at yahoo.co.uk (Dan) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Junk In Start Of Group In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Jan 2012, Matt Ackeret wrote: > Is it maybe too long (from the RFCs)? Or is it really the .com in > the name? I don't think anybody's said specifically what the actual > reason for the complaint by the code is (yes, I know someone gave > the source line where it's happening). There's a comp.mail.pine thread from May 2003, entitled '"Junk in start of group" warnings from Pine 4.55?', which gives some clues to this: . From b.j.casavant at ieee.org Thu Jan 5 16:24:41 2012 From: b.j.casavant at ieee.org (Brent Casavant) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Junk In Start Of Group In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Jan 2012, Matt Ackeret wrote: > On Thu, 5 Jan 2012, Mike Miller wrote: > > I also don't think that this is an invalid email address... > > > > ManilowHotline_manilow.com@bmsend.com > > > > ...so if Alpine cannot parse it, maybe there is a bug. I don't like seeing > > ".com" on the left of the "@", but I don't think there's anything really wrong > > with it. > > Is it maybe too long (from the RFCs)? Or is it really the .com in the name? I > don't think anybody's said specifically what the actual reason for the > complaint by the code is (yes, I know someone gave the source line where it's > happening). I'm no expert on these things, but I looked at a different version of imap4r1.c. It looks to me like the routines that tried to extract an email address failed to find the host part. There are a number of reasons the parser could fail (e.g. 8-bit characters in the string, an absurd string length coming back from the server, etc). It looks like the code tries to log a particular reason, but only the last "Junk in start of group" part of the error log is what is being seen. I wonder if Jackie looks at the .pine-debug* files if there would be greater detail about what is going wrong in there -- just prior to any log line about the "Junk in start of group". I have two barely-educated guesses as to what's happening: The first theory is that the less-than/greater-than delimiters around the address are causing problems. As far as I know those should only appear in To/From/Cc headers when a real name is present, like this: From: Joe Smith Notably they should never appear without real name text like this: From: I suspect that the message Junk in start of group: pn= might be indicating that the header is malformed, and thus parsing of the address is failing. My other theory is that by some quirk, either a bug in an MTA, IMAP server, MUA, etc., or maybe even malicious intent on the part of the sender (the address Jackie specified looks suspicious enough to be the output of some sort of spammer) there was introduced into the email address a non-printable character that the parser is failing on. The non-printable character isn't showing up in the alpine status line, but behind the scenes it's buggering things up. It would be interesting to see if .pine-debug* shows anything relevant. Barring that, unless the re-alpine folks are interested in fixing this, the easiest workaround is to just delete the offending message. Brent -- Brent Casavant If you had nothing to fear, www.angeltread.org how then could you be brave? KD5EMB, EN34lv -- Queen Dama, Source Wars From mattack at apple.com Thu Jan 5 16:26:13 2012 From: mattack at apple.com (Matt Ackeret) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Junk In Start Of Group In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Jan 2012, Dan wrote: > On Thu, 5 Jan 2012, Matt Ackeret wrote: >> Is it maybe too long (from the RFCs)? Or is it really the .com in >> the name? I don't think anybody's said specifically what the actual >> reason for the complaint by the code is (yes, I know someone gave >> the source line where it's happening). > > There's a comp.mail.pine thread from May 2003, entitled '"Junk in > start of group" warnings from Pine 4.55?', which gives some clues to > this: > > . ARGH, so yet another gmail IMAP-but-not-really-IMAP issue.. So presumably they won't fix it.. But is the google person still on this list? If you can use your internal contacts to report this to the gmail IMAP person/people, that'd be good. >From Mark Crispin from that thread: Which IMAP server implementation are you using? This message indicates that the IMAP server sent an envelope address of the form: ("\"Der Quaffen List\"" "\"Der Quaffen List\"" NIL NIL) or possibly: ("\"Der Quaffen List\"" "Der Quaffen List" NIL NIL) instead of the correct: (NIL "Der Quaffen List" NIL NIL) This indicates a bug in the IMAP server. Pine is specifically checking for this, since this is reserved IMAP syntax which is likely to be assigned for a purpose in the future. Any server using this reserved syntax is broken, and must be fixed. From vi5u0-pineinfo at yahoo.co.uk Thu Jan 5 16:35:46 2012 From: vi5u0-pineinfo at yahoo.co.uk (Dan) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Junk In Start Of Group In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The personal name (pn=) is supposed to be an RFC-2822 phrase, so I've got a feeling this, in section 4.1 of RFC-2822, might be relevant: Note: The "period" (or "full stop") character (".") in obs-phrase is not a form that was allowed in earlier versions of this or any other standard. Period (nor any other character from specials) was not allowed in phrase because it introduced a parsing difficulty distinguishing between phrases and portions of an addr-spec (see section 4.4). From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Thu Jan 5 16:36:55 2012 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Junk In Start Of Group In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Jan 2012, Matt Ackeret wrote: > On Thu, 5 Jan 2012, Mike Miller wrote: > >> I also don't think that this is an invalid email address... >> >> ManilowHotline_manilow.com@bmsend.com >> >> ...so if Alpine cannot parse it, maybe there is a bug. I don't like >> seeing ".com" on the left of the "@", but I don't think there's >> anything really wrong with it. > > Is it maybe too long (from the RFCs)? Or is it really the .com in the > name? I don't think anybody's said specifically what the actual reason > for the complaint by the code is (yes, I know someone gave the source > line where it's happening). You are right. He didn't say that it was definitely because of the address. It might not be, but if it is because of the address, I think that is not an improper address. Here is some info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Email_address#Local_part I looked at RFC822 and it seemed to be saying that just about anything can be to the left of "@", even spaces, if quoted. I wasn't finding it in RFC5322. Now that a few more messages have come in, this might be irrelevant. So it goes. Mike From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Thu Jan 5 16:39:50 2012 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Junk In Start Of Group In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Jan 2012, Dan wrote: > The personal name (pn=) is supposed to be an RFC-2822 phrase, so I've > got a feeling this, in section 4.1 of RFC-2822, might be relevant: > > Note: The "period" (or "full stop") character (".") in obs-phrase is > not a form that was allowed in earlier versions of this or any other > standard. Period (nor any other character from specials) was not > allowed in phrase because it introduced a parsing difficulty > distinguishing between phrases and portions of an addr-spec (see > section 4.4). Maybe that part of the code is doing some incorrect parsing, then. The period is used a lot these days. Mike From alpine at benizi.com Thu Jan 5 23:35:21 2012 From: alpine at benizi.com (Benjamin R. Haskell) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Junk In Start Of Group In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Jan 2012, Mike Miller wrote: > On Thu, 5 Jan 2012, Steve Hubert wrote: > >>>>> --Yes, the exact phrase, followed by the start of a seemingly >>>>> "bad" header: >>>>> >>>>> [{imap.lava.net:143/imap/tls/novalidate-cert/user="jyoung"}inbox : Junk in start of group: pn= al=] >>>>> [...] >>>>> This is after I've already entered "pine" and I've gone through a >>>>> 2nd login, so it's right before Alpine finally starts up. >> >> It means that it had trouble parsing an address in the header of some >> message in the mailbox you just opened. No doubt a message that >> contains ManilowHotline_manilow in a header. If you delete that >> message the warning will go away. Otherwise, the warning isn't >> harmful and isn't taking any extra time. > > Thanks for the info. Maybe you don't consider it to be a bug, then, > but it might be preferrable to have it either print a usable warning > or nothing at all instead of this stuff. I don't know why it is > printing "Junk in start of group" to the screen. > > I also don't think that this is an invalid email address... > > ManilowHotline_manilow.com@bmsend.com > > ...so if Alpine cannot parse it, maybe there is a bug. I don't like > seeing ".com" on the left of the "@", but I don't think there's > anything really wrong with it. Alpine isn't the one failing to parse something, Gmail's IMAP server is failing to parse a header (not just an address). I see this message all the time, and just chalked it up to Gmail's IMAP server's multiple quirks. Didn't bother to track it down until this thread. It's a pragmatically harmless error, and though it's clearly generating a weird entry in the ENVELOPE, I'm not sure it breaks any RFC's. One way to track the offending messages down is to go to the Main Menu in Alpine and press 'J' to get to the Journal(?) of log messages.) In my case I managed to find several messages that cause the error. One from fora.tv has this "Sender:" header: Sender: "FORA.tv" Using raw IMAP, running this: A FETCH 237 ALL Yields: * 237 FETCH (ENVELOPE ("Wed, 4 Jan 2012 07:35:37 -0500" "Viewer's Choice Award, Vatican's Sexual Abuse, and Natalie Portman's Bad Review" (("FORA.tv" NIL "info" "fora.tv")) (("" NIL "\"FORA.tv\"" NIL)) (("FORA.tv" NIL "info" "fora.tv")) (("FORA.tv Member" NIL "[redacted]" "benizi.com")) NIL NIL NIL "") FLAGS () INTERNALDATE "04-Jan-2012 12:35:39 +0000" RFC822.SIZE 75667) A OK Success The problematic portion is the sender tuple: (("" NIL "\"FORA.tv\"" NIL)) The four fields are: addr-name ( personal name ) = "" addr-adl ( at-domain-list ) = NIL addr-mailbox ( mailbox name ) = "\"FORA.tv\"" addr-host ( host name ) = NIL >From RFC 3501 (IMAP v4rev1) in the description of ENVELOPE: [RFC-2822] group syntax is indicated by a special form of address structure in which the host name field is NIL. If the mailbox name field is also NIL, this is an end of group marker (semi-colon in RFC 822 syntax). If the mailbox name field is non-NIL, this is a start of group marker, and the mailbox name field holds the group name phrase. RFC 2822 defines a group (imprecisely, I'm paraphrasing) as: A display name Then a colon (optionally:) addresses separated by commas Then a semicolon. A common example of a group with no addresses is (/was?): cc: undisclosed-recipients:; Given the same thing in a "From:" header (since Gmail returns NIL for the above "cc:" header), Gmail's IMAP server returns this: (("undisclosed-recipients" NIL "local" "example.com")) (where local@example.com is replacing my Gmail login) The same thing copied to my local Dovecot server returns: ((NIL NIL "undisclosed-recipients" NIL)(NIL NIL NIL NIL)) Where the first tuple is the start of group marker (since it has a NIL host name and non-NIL mailbox name), and the second tuple is the end of group marker (since the mailbox name is also NIL). So, the end result for the misparsed header is that Gmail's IMAP server emits something that appears to be a start of group marker (because the host name is NIL). But, the "junk" that Alpine complains about is the fact that the personal name is *not* NIL, as most servers set. (But, as mentioned at the outset -- I can't seem to see where addr-name is required to be NIL.) If no one else can identify such a section, it seems like the error message should be suppressed. Closest I can come is the fact that, in RFC 3501, the syntax states that addr-name "If non-NIL, holds phrase from [RFC-2822] mailbox after removing [RFC-2822] quoting", but for addr-host "NIL indicates [RFC-2822] group syntax". (Which implies that addr-name should be NIL, because "group" in RFC 2822 is: display-name ":" [mailbox-list / CFWS] ";" [CFWS] So, there can't be any mailbox name in the start of group special ENVELOPE address.) TL;DR: Gmail's behavior is slightly weird, but it's in a deep, dark corner case. The "Message to save shrank!" message (discussed elsewhere) is far more troublesome, IMO. -- Best, Ben From jtwdyp at ttlc.net Thu Jan 12 09:08:10 2012 From: jtwdyp at ttlc.net (Joe(theWordy)Philbrook) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Is alpine supposed to be able to use IMAP to move msg from spam to inbox Message-ID: It would appear that on Dec 10, James Freer did say: > On Sat, Dec 10, 2011 at 9:15 PM, Joe(theWordy)Philbrook wrote: > > I've been using (Al)pine for a long time. But until recently I didn't > > have an imap accessible account. (I've used pop (usually via fetchmail) to > > move it to a local folder. But since I now have an imap accessible gmx.com > > free mail account I've also learned to use alpine to directly work with > > my gmx inbox and spam folder. But if I find something in spam that > > I want to leave in the server inbox folder for downloading to more than one > > computer, I have to use their webmail access to do it. > > > > If I try to use alpine to save a message, and use ^t to select either of > > those imap folders from the incoming message folders list, It tells me the > > folder doesn't exist and wants to create it. Not having any idea what might > > happen to the mail already in such folders if alpine succeeded in creating > > the folder it doesn't think exists, I haven't dared say "yes"... > > > > So like I said, is Alpine supposed to be able to do this? And/Or what am I > > doing wrong? > > Joe - i'm not technical enough to answer completely but have you tried > imap with another email account other than gmx.com. I was using aol > and had a similar problem to yourself. I switched back to gmail and > everything worked fine. Well I chose gmx.com over gmail in part because of having seen many postings about gmail's imap interface not quite being standards compliant. As it happens I may have been slightly mistaken about part of the problem I was having as while I tried unsuccessfully several times to save messages to my gmx inbox folder via the imap interface, I only recall trying to save to the spam folder one time. And now I'm not so sure that that failure might have been a fluke of some kind... It recently occurred to me that there might be something non-standard about the default folders. So I used their webmail interface to create another folder which I named GMXhold. I was then able to use the imap interface to move messages to GMXhold from gmx's inbox or from gmx's spam folder, as well as from a local folder on my PC. Then subsequent testing showed that I could in fact also save to my spam folder. But any attempt to save to the inbox folder still fails. But that's ok, being able to save a message downloaded by fetchmail back onto the server so that it can be accessed from another computer, is the main thing I wanted anyway. -- | ~^~ ~^~ | <*> <*> Joe (theWordy) Philbrook | ^ J(tWdy)P | \___/ <> From jessejazza3.uk at gmail.com Thu Jan 12 14:42:58 2012 From: jessejazza3.uk at gmail.com (James Freer) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Is alpine supposed to be able to use IMAP to move msg from spam to inbox In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 5:08 PM, Joe(theWordy)Philbrook wrote: > > It would appear that on Dec 10, James Freer did say: > >> On Sat, Dec 10, 2011 at 9:15 PM, Joe(theWordy)Philbrook wrote: >> > I've been using (Al)pine for a long time. But until recently I didn't >> > have an imap accessible account. (I've used pop (usually via fetchmail) to >> > move it to a local folder. But since I now have an imap accessible gmx.com >> > free mail account I've also learned to use alpine to directly work with >> > my gmx inbox and spam folder. But if I find something in spam that >> > I want to leave in the server inbox folder for downloading to more than one >> > computer, I have to use their webmail access to do it. >> > >> > If I try to use alpine to save a message, and use ^t to select either of >> > those imap folders from the incoming message folders list, It tells me the >> > folder doesn't exist and wants to create it. Not having any idea what might >> > happen to the mail already in such folders if alpine succeeded in creating >> > the folder it doesn't think exists, I haven't dared say "yes"... >> > >> > So like I said, is Alpine supposed to be able to do this? And/Or what am I >> > doing wrong? >> >> Joe - i'm not technical enough to answer completely but have you tried >> imap with another email account other than gmx.com. I was using aol >> and had a similar problem to yourself. I switched back to gmail and >> everything worked fine. > > Well I chose gmx.com over gmail in part because of having seen many > postings about gmail's imap interface not quite being standards compliant. > > As it happens I may have been slightly mistaken about part of the problem I > was having as while I tried unsuccessfully several times to save messages to > my gmx inbox folder via the imap interface, I only recall trying to save to > the spam folder one time. And now I'm not so sure that that failure might > have been a fluke of some kind... > > It recently occurred to me that there might be something non-standard about > the default folders. So I used their webmail interface to create another > folder which I named GMXhold. I was then able to use the imap interface to > move messages to GMXhold from gmx's inbox or from gmx's spam folder, as > well as from a local folder on my PC. Then subsequent testing showed that I > could in fact also save to my spam folder. But any attempt to save to the > inbox folder still fails. But that's ok, being able to save a message > downloaded by fetchmail back onto the server so that it can be accessed from > another computer, is the main thing I wanted anyway. Joe Glad you got sorted out. I only use the All Mail (bypass Inbox using a filter to archive immediately). You could well be better on GMX as the new Gmail doesn't filter all messages which for me is now a pain. I've got more experimenting to do. james From pierre.frenkiel at gmail.com Mon Jan 16 01:47:18 2012 From: pierre.frenkiel at gmail.com (Pierre Frenkiel) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] reply to all Message-ID: when receiving a post from a mailing-list, you have generally: - the From: field with the address of the poster - the To: field with the address of the mailing list When replying, if you choose "reply to all", the mail is sent to the poster, and the mailing list is in Cc: Obviously, the good choice would be to do the contrary: - mail to the list - Cc: to the poster With that setting, you would just need one to remove the useless Cc: I know that there is no chance now to get any modification in alpine, but is there any alpine setting that would give this behaviour? cheers, -- Pierre Frenkiel From ruskie at codemages.net Mon Jan 16 01:56:58 2012 From: ruskie at codemages.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andra=C5=BE_'ruskie'_Levstik?=) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] reply to all In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: :2012-01-16T10:47:Pierre Frenkiel: > when receiving a post from a mailing-list, you have generally: > - the From: field with the address of the poster > - the To: field with the address of the mailing list > > When replying, if you choose "reply to all", the mail is sent to the > poster, and the mailing list is in Cc: > Obviously, the good choice would be to do the contrary: > - mail to the list > - Cc: to the poster > With that setting, you would just need one to remove the useless Cc: > I know that there is no chance now to get any modification in alpine, but is > there any alpine setting that would give this behaviour? Patches welcome for such functionality. -- Andra? 'ruskie' Levstik Source Mage GNU/Linux Games/Xorg grimoire guru Re-Alpine Coordinator http://sourceforge.net/projects/re-alpine/ Geek/Hacker/Tinker Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? From geoff at QuiteLikely.com Mon Jan 16 04:11:27 2012 From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] reply to all In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Jan 2012, Pierre Frenkiel wrote: > When replying, if you choose "reply to all", the mail is sent to the > poster, and the mailing list is in Cc: > Obviously, the good choice would be to do the contrary: For mailing lists, yes, but probably not in other cases. I think you're trying to make a general rule fit your specific case. What would be better is for this sequence to be influenced by the value of the List_Post header. Exactly what the interface would be I'm not sure, but ALPINE already has code for detecting List_* headers, so it would be possible to make use of it. Geoff. From pierre.frenkiel at gmail.com Mon Jan 16 06:30:43 2012 From: pierre.frenkiel at gmail.com (Pierre Frenkiel) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] reply to all In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Jan 2012, Geoff Shang wrote: > For mailing lists, yes, but probably not in other cases. I think you're > trying to make a general rule fit your specific case. > What would be better is for this sequence to be influenced by the value of > the List_Post header. Exactly what the interface would be I'm not sure, but > ALPINE already has code for detecting List_* headers, so it would be possible > to make use of it. > I'm surprised to learn that replying to a list is so specific of my case !! Actually, my suggestion was only for mailing lists, as I thought that alpine has a way to find whether thw mail comes from a list or not. You confirm that (except that the header name is List-Id) When you say "it would be possible..", do you mean by the developpers (if any), or by the user? -- Pierre Frenkiel From pierre.frenkiel at gmail.com Mon Jan 16 06:52:42 2012 From: pierre.frenkiel at gmail.com (Pierre Frenkiel) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] reply to all In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Jan 2012, Pierre Frenkiel wrote: > (except that the header name is List-Id) and idem for all List headers: List-Post List-Help, ... It's important to note that if you use grep to find these headers. , -- Pierre Frenkiel From chappa at gmx.com Mon Jan 16 08:54:59 2012 From: chappa at gmx.com (Eduardo Chappa) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] reply to all In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Jan 2012, Pierre Frenkiel wrote: :) when receiving a post from a mailing-list, you have generally: :) - the From: field with the address of the poster :) - the To: field with the address of the mailing list :) :) When replying, if you choose "reply to all", the mail is sent to the :) poster, and the mailing list is in Cc: :) Obviously, the good choice would be to do the contrary: :) - mail to the list :) - Cc: to the poster Pierre, I actually think that the right thing is what Alpine does now. I normally think that when I reply, I reply to the person that sent the message, that I am not replying to a mailing list, but to a person, and that the Cc: field has the purpose to let others know that a reply was sent and what was said. For example, in this message I am replying to your message, so it is natural to me to think that the message should go to you (you be the primary recipient), and I am just copying others in this list so that they know what I told you, so they can reply if they wish so. I think your idea is one way to work, you just have to think that the primary recipient is always the list, and that is where we disagree. It makes me wonder if the Cc field is necessary at all in this case (yes in some cases, but it seems mostly redundant in most cases). Nevertheless, this is a matter of choice. The current behavior works well and does not *need* to be "fixed". -- Eduardo http://patches.freeiz.com/alpine/ From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Mon Jan 16 09:52:12 2012 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] reply to all In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Jan 2012, Eduardo Chappa wrote: > On Mon, 16 Jan 2012, Pierre Frenkiel wrote: > > :) when receiving a post from a mailing-list, you have generally: > :) - the From: field with the address of the poster > :) - the To: field with the address of the mailing list > :) > :) When replying, if you choose "reply to all", the mail is sent to the > :) poster, and the mailing list is in Cc: > :) Obviously, the good choice would be to do the contrary: > :) - mail to the list > :) - Cc: to the poster > > Pierre, > > I actually think that the right thing is what Alpine does now. I > normally think that when I reply, I reply to the person that sent the > message, that I am not replying to a mailing list, but to a person, and > that the Cc: field has the purpose to let others know that a reply was > sent and what was said. For example, in this message I am replying to > your message, so it is natural to me to think that the message should go > to you (you be the primary recipient), and I am just copying others in > this list so that they know what I told you, so they can reply if they > wish so. > > I think your idea is one way to work, you just have to think that the > primary recipient is always the list, and that is where we disagree. It > makes me wonder if the Cc field is necessary at all in this case (yes in > some cases, but it seems mostly redundant in most cases). > > Nevertheless, this is a matter of choice. The current behavior works > well and does not *need* to be "fixed". That makes sense to me -- reconceptualize what you are doing and it's actually better the Alpine way. The list is fine with distributing messages when the list is only in the CC field. Another issue that was not mentioned: In one of the lists I'm on, the CC field is used a lot because many recipients use daily digests and won't see messages until later if they are not cc'd. This means that we can end up with the list being one of several items in the To or Cc here are two real examples showing the number and order of addresses but changing the addresses themselves: From: thompson@gmail.com To: jones@yahoo.com, List , smith@usc.edu, brown@uic.edu From: thompson@ewu.edu To: abc@aol.com, ps@psychiatry.oxford.ac.uk, jp@brown.edu Cc: li@uk.edu, li@c.uk.edu, mb@mi.edu, rj@rd.edu, jm@nwu.edu, List It might be possible to change Re-Alpine so that it can figure out that one of those addresses is the list address and then put that in the To field. I'm not sure though that it can be done. For example, with this list we see all of this in the header... Cc: alpine-info@u.washington.edu Precedence: list List-Id: Alpine Discussion Forum List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: alpine-info-bounces@mailman13.u.washington.edu Errors-To: alpine-info-bounces@mailman13.u.washington.edu But the actual address of the list is not seen in the "List-*" fields. Mike From ruskie at codemages.net Mon Jan 16 10:00:21 2012 From: ruskie at codemages.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andra=C5=BE_'ruskie'_Levstik?=) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] reply to all In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: :2012-01-16T11:52:Mike Miller: > Cc: alpine-info@u.washington.edu > Precedence: list > List-Id: Alpine Discussion Forum > List-Unsubscribe: > , > > List-Archive: > List-Post: > List-Help: > List-Subscribe: > , > > Sender: alpine-info-bounces@mailman13.u.washington.edu > Errors-To: alpine-info-bounces@mailman13.u.washington.edu > > But the actual address of the list is not seen in the "List-*" fields. List-Post: And as you can see: Precedence: list means replies should go to list first. Similar if there is a Reply-to: header set. -- Andra? 'ruskie' Levstik Source Mage GNU/Linux Games/Xorg grimoire guru Re-Alpine Coordinator http://sourceforge.net/projects/re-alpine/ Geek/Hacker/Tinker The right to offend is more important than the right not to be offended. From pierre.frenkiel at gmail.com Mon Jan 16 10:15:04 2012 From: pierre.frenkiel at gmail.com (Pierre Frenkiel) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] reply to all In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Jan 2012, Mike Miller wrote: > . . . > It might be possible to change Re-Alpine so that it can figure out that one > of those addresses is the list address and then put that in the To field. > I'm not sure though that it can be done. For example, with this list we see > all of this in the header... > .. . . > List-Post: > ... > But the actual address of the list is not seen in the "List-*" fields. hi Mike, It can be done, because the actual address IS in List-Post did you miss it? -- Pierre Frenkiel From chappa at gmx.com Mon Jan 16 10:10:55 2012 From: chappa at gmx.com (Eduardo Chappa) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] reply to all In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Jan 2012, Andra? 'ruskie' Levstik wrote: :) :2012-01-16T11:52:Mike Miller: :) :) > Precedence: list :) :) And as you can see: Precedence: list means replies should go to list :) first. Similar if there is a Reply-to: header set. Where is the Precedence: list defined (meaning, in which RFC is it defined?). It is not defined in RFC 2369, so I do not see that Precedence should be interpreted the way you do. Could you please give us a reference (in a RFC) to the interpretation of that field? -- Eduardo http://patches.freeiz.com/alpine/ From pierre.frenkiel at gmail.com Mon Jan 16 12:01:58 2012 From: pierre.frenkiel at gmail.com (Pierre Frenkiel) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] reply to all In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Jan 2012, Eduardo Chappa wrote: > Where is the Precedence: list defined (meaning, in which RFC is it > defined?). , RFC 2076 gives several definitions, with "discouraged" as comment cf also http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3834 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Email https://www.vbulletin.com/forum/project.php?issueid=27687 -- Pierre Frenkiel From ruskie at codemages.net Mon Jan 16 12:09:55 2012 From: ruskie at codemages.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andra=C5=BE_'ruskie'_Levstik?=) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] reply to all In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: :2012-01-16T12:10:Eduardo Chappa: > Where is the Precedence: list defined (meaning, in which RFC is it > defined?). It is not defined in RFC 2369, so I do not see that Precedence > should be interpreted the way you do. Could you please give us a reference > (in a RFC) to the interpretation of that field? My mistake about the interpretation. http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2076 3.9 Quality information http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3834 2. When (not) to send automatic responses [Page 5] As far as my opinion on this matter. If the message is sent to a mailing list and there is no specific Reply-to set(either to list or to poster) then the default reply behaviour should be to the list. If there is a Reply-to set to the poster then it should be sent to the poster and if there is a Reply-to set to the mailing list then it should be sent to the mailing list. Just how I always considered from both practical point of view as well as politeness of not spamming someones INBOX with multiple copies of the same message. -- Andra? 'ruskie' Levstik Source Mage GNU/Linux Games/Xorg grimoire guru Re-Alpine Coordinator http://sourceforge.net/projects/re-alpine/ Geek/Hacker/Tinker Waiting for the computer to reboot. ? From mattack at apple.com Mon Jan 16 12:19:36 2012 From: mattack at apple.com (Matt Ackeret) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] reply to all In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Jan 2012, Pierre Frenkiel wrote: > Obviously, the good choice would be to do the contrary: > - mail to the list > - Cc: to the poster > With that setting, you would just need one to remove the useless Cc: > I know that there is no chance now to get any modification in alpine, but is > there any alpine setting that would give this behaviour? I SORT OF agree, but what I end up doing (the lazy way) is: ^K out the To field, and almost always copy the CC field (the mailing list) to the Reply-To field, so that when I am sending to a mailing list, I DO NOT GET MULTIPLE REPLIES BECAUSE OF OTHER MORONS WHO REPLY ALL. (Yes, "smart" mailing list programs do that automatically.. but I do the Reply-To trick EVEN on alpine, so that I don't erroneously get a "+" showing the email is TO ME, which may be more important than one to the list.) So basically.. I agree with the intent, but an argument for the current behavior makes it easier to NOT ACCIDENTALLY send to a mailing list. I think everybody has erroneously done that. The only "problem" with CCing the list and putting nothing in the To field is that you then get the annoying (IMHO) "undisclosed recipients" thing in the To field.. and someone else I know at Apple apparently automatically sends things without a To field (I'm being vague, I don't know exactly what he's checking for) to his spam folder. So I guess I'm being wishy-washy (rare for me). Maybe a better way would be to have a one-key toggle in the header editor to switch between sending to the list and sending to the person. (I *do* send private replies to just the person fairly often, for a tangential question, etc..) From mattack at apple.com Mon Jan 16 12:26:21 2012 From: mattack at apple.com (Matt Ackeret) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] reply to all In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Jan 2012, Eduardo Chappa wrote: >I actually think that the right thing is what Alpine does now. I normally >think that when I reply, I reply to the person that sent the message, that >I am not replying to a mailing list, but to a person, and that the Cc: Though I argue that the current behavior is acceptable to me (though there could be improvements), I definitely think I am replying TO THE LIST when I make a public statement, or respond JUST to the person... (and I semi-spaz at people when they quote my personal replies back to the list.. enough so that nowadays I usually try to make it really clear that this was a personal reply in the reply itself.) As well as my previous statement in the other reply (a way to after-the-fact switch betwen replying to the person & list in the header editor), another useful thing FOR ME would be a way to easily fill out the Reply-To field. Again, I don't want it filled out ALWAYS, since that could lead to goofs.. but some way, if I am sending to a list, to then with one keypress maybe fill in the Reply-To: field with the same list I'm To or CCing. From ruskie at codemages.net Mon Jan 16 12:29:22 2012 From: ruskie at codemages.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andra=C5=BE_'ruskie'_Levstik?=) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] reply to all In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: :2012-01-16T12:19:Matt Ackeret: > So I guess I'm being wishy-washy (rare for me). Maybe a better way would > be to have a one-key toggle in the header editor to switch between > sending to the list and sending to the person. (I *do* send private > replies to just the person fairly often, for a tangential question, etc..) If anyone wishes to produce a patch to support such behaviour I'd be willing to integrate it into re-alpine. I really ought to go and integrate the other patches as well. -- Andra? 'ruskie' Levstik Source Mage GNU/Linux Games/Xorg grimoire guru Re-Alpine Coordinator http://sourceforge.net/projects/re-alpine/ Geek/Hacker/Tinker Be advised: causing a disturbance may result in fines, detainment, bodily harm, or death. Enjoy your stay. From geoff at QuiteLikely.com Mon Jan 16 13:30:12 2012 From: geoff at QuiteLikely.com (Geoff Shang) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] reply to all In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Jan 2012, Andra? 'ruskie' Levstik wrote: > As far as my opinion on this matter. If the message is sent to a mailing > list and there is no specific Reply-to set(either to list or to poster) > then the default reply behaviour should be to the list. If there is a > Reply-to set to the poster then it should be sent to the poster and if > there is a Reply-to set to the mailing list then it should be sent to > the mailing list. There have been many heated debates on the Internet on this very subject, with no consensus. Personally I think the ideal situation is going to vary depending on the list and its purpose. But I also think that this is outside the scope of what ALPINE should be concerned with. What I do think is relevant is enabling the ALPINE user to easily do what they want. Therefore, a "reply to list" functionality would seem to be the missing link. Other Email programs have this and ALPINE can already use the List_Post header if you click on the "Note: This message contains email list management information" link at the bottom of the message, so this ought not to be too much of a stretch. Having this would allow a person to reply to the sender, reply to the list or reply to wherever a Reply To header points, as they please. Geoff. From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Mon Jan 16 13:39:40 2012 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] reply to all In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Jan 2012, Pierre Frenkiel wrote: > On Mon, 16 Jan 2012, Mike Miller wrote: > >> . . . >> It might be possible to change Re-Alpine so that it can figure out that one >> of those addresses is the list address and then put that in the To field. >> I'm not sure though that it can be done. For example, with this list we >> see all of this in the header... >> .. . . >> List-Post: >> ... >> But the actual address of the list is not seen in the "List-*" fields. > > hi Mike, > It can be done, because the actual address IS in List-Post > did you miss it? Sorry! Yes, I missed it. Thanks. Mike From chappa at gmx.com Mon Jan 16 13:37:59 2012 From: chappa at gmx.com (Eduardo Chappa) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] reply to all Message-ID: <20120116213759.109560@gmx.com> Pierre, ?It seems that your suggestion would make mailing list be treated as newsgroups. While I agree that everyone has their own ideas about how to treat e-mail and news, I think that we should treat e-mail as such and follow standard practices. I do not see an standard in this case saying that we should treat this situation in the way you suggest, nor do I see one that actually supports the way Alpine treats it. The only text that seems to support the current behavior appears in RFC 2822 and RFC 5322. Take a look at the Note below. ? When a message is a reply to another message, the mailboxes of the ? authors of the original message (the mailboxes in the "From:" field) ? or mailboxes specified in the "Reply-To:" field (if it exists) MAY ? appear in the "To:" field of the reply since these would normally be ? the primary recipients of the reply. ?If a reply is sent to a message ? that has destination fields, it is often desirable to send a copy of ? the reply to all of the recipients of the message, in addition to the ? author. ?When such a reply is formed, addresses in the "To:" and ? "Cc:" fields of the original message MAY appear in the "Cc:" field of ? the reply, since these are normally secondary recipients of the ? reply. ?If a "Bcc:" field is present in the original message, ? addresses in that field MAY appear in the "Bcc:" field of the reply, ? but they SHOULD NOT appear in the "To:" or "Cc:" fields. ? ? ?Note: Some mail applications have automatic reply commands that ? ? ?include the destination addresses of the original message in the ? ? ?destination addresses of the reply. ?How those reply commands ? ? ?behave is implementation dependent and is beyond the scope of this ? ? ?document. ?In particular, whether or not to include the original ? ? ?destination addresses when the original message had a "Reply-To:" ? ? ?field is not addressed here. I understand this text to mean that the way a reply command behaves is undefined. The normal behavior in Alpine is in line with the first paragraph of the text, and the Note: seems to be more on line with what you want. I still think that the first paragraph is more on line with my expectation on the behavior of Alpine, that is, I should reply to the address in the From, and not to the address in the To: regardless if that message was intended to be sent to a mailing list or not. Now, if I were replying to a message in a Newsgroup, and I wanted the message to also go to you, I would send a message with your address in the To: header and a Newsgroup: header for the newsgroup I wanted that message to be posted to. This means, that no matter what, I would reply to you with your address in the To: field. As of if the mailing list address should be in the To: field, to me at least it looks inappropriate, because the message was not really to the list in my mind, and I think Alpine interprets that correctly. -- Eduardo http://patches.freeiz.com/alpine/ From chappa at gmx.com Mon Jan 16 13:49:04 2012 From: chappa at gmx.com (Eduardo Chappa) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] reply to all Message-ID: <20120116214904.109550@gmx.com> Geoff, ?As much as I agree with your sentiment, the only problem I see is that the reply command is already a mess. When one replies, one already has to decide if one wants * to change the quote character (most times this is an invisible question), * include the original text * use a role and which one (if it is not automatic) * reply to all * use the reply-to value do we still need one more question before we can actually start to reply to a message? It seems that this makes Alpine more confusing. I do not think this is necessary, so I advise against it. -- Eduardo http://patches.freeiz.com/alpine/ From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Mon Jan 16 14:44:45 2012 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] reply to all In-Reply-To: <20120116214904.109550@gmx.com> References: <20120116214904.109550@gmx.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Jan 2012, Eduardo Chappa wrote: >?As much as I agree with your sentiment, the only problem I see is that > the reply command is already a mess. When one replies, one already has > to decide if one wants > > * to change the quote character (most times this is an invisible question), > * include the original text > * use a role and which one (if it is not automatic) > * reply to all > * use the reply-to value > > do we still need one more question before we can actually start to reply > to a message? It seems that this makes Alpine more confusing. I do not > think this is necessary, so I advise against it. But if you add an option that is disabled by default, it only gets more complicated for those who prefer complication. Also, the method I recommended would simplify things for me, if I could enable it. Mike From sm at resistor.net Mon Jan 16 15:08:08 2012 From: sm at resistor.net (SM) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] reply to all In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.2.20120116145950.0695dbf0@resistor.net> At 13:30 16-01-2012, Geoff Shang wrote: >There have been many heated debates on the Internet on this very >subject, with no Yes. >Therefore, a "reply to list" functionality would seem to be the >missing link. Other Email programs have this and ALPINE can already >use the List_Post header if you click on The List-Post header field can be used to email address to post to. It is generally the mailing list address. The Reply-To: header field can be used to indicate the email address to which replies should be sent. The above could be used to provide functionality which is catered to individual taste. Regards, -sm From book at kaapeli.fi Mon Jan 16 22:42:45 2012 From: book at kaapeli.fi (=?ISO-8859-15?Q?Mikael_B=F6=F6k?=) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] How to make Alpine recognize .doc, .odt,.docx again? Message-ID: Hi, when I receive a pdf-file, or a jpg-file, Alpine recognizes it and activates an external viewer application. I wish it did the same with .doc, .docx and .odt. As far as I remember, it actually did, as long as I used Open Office. But it no longer does, since I changed to Libre Office. How to make Alpine recognize .doc, .odt,.docx again? I use Ubuntu 10.04 and Gnome, and have installed Alpine locally. Cheers, Mikael Mikael Book * book@kaapeli.fi * gsm +358(0)-44 5511 324 * http://www.kaapeli.fi/book/ * http://blogi.kaapeli.fi/book/ * http://blog.spinellisfootsteps.info/ From nicolas.kowalski at gmail.com Mon Jan 16 22:50:26 2012 From: nicolas.kowalski at gmail.com (Nicolas KOWALSKI) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] reply to all In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Jan 2012, Pierre Frenkiel wrote: > I know that there is no chance now to get any modification in alpine, but is > there any alpine setting that would give this behaviour? I use a role for this. The important field to change is the Other headers, set with To: and Cc: with no value, like the following: Set Other Hdrs = To: alpine-info@u.washington.edu, Cc: -- Nicolas From mirkoh at upb.de Mon Jan 16 23:02:03 2012 From: mirkoh at upb.de (Mirko Hessel-von Molo) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] How to make Alpine recognize .doc, .odt,.docx again? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 17 Jan 2012, Mikael B??k wrote: > > Hi, > > when I receive a pdf-file, or a jpg-file, Alpine recognizes it and activates > an external viewer application. I wish it did the same with .doc, .docx and > .odt. As far as I remember, it actually did, as long as I used Open Office. > But it no longer does, since I changed to Libre Office. > > How to make Alpine recognize .doc, .odt,.docx again? Either in your /etc/mailcap or in ~/.mailcap you have lines that tell alpine to start openoffice for opening .doc .docx and so on. Change the paths to the ooo executable in those lines to the libreoffice executables, and it should work again. You can change the latter as yourself, to change the former (system-wide mailcap configuration) you need to act as root: eg. via sudo vim /etc/mailcap (sudo means "do this as superuser", vim is my favorite editor). Best, Mirko From lucio at lambrate.inaf.it Tue Jan 17 00:55:02 2012 From: lucio at lambrate.inaf.it (Lucio Chiappetti) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] reply to all In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Jan 2012, Eduardo Chappa wrote: > On Mon, 16 Jan 2012, Pierre Frenkiel wrote: > :) Obviously, the good choice would be to do the contrary: > :) - mail to the list > :) - Cc: to the poster > I actually think that the right thing is what Alpine does now. Alpine is formally (software-wise) right, as it obeys the List-* headers if present, and otherwise has no way to tell an address is a list. Alpine is not practically right in the thought of about 50% of the people. However most mailing list (e.g. mailman) are by default configured as "reply goes to poster", and even when this could be changed as "reply goes to the list" it is often difficult to agree between the co-moderators to change it. > I normally think that when I reply, I reply to the person that sent the > message, that I am not replying to a mailing list, but to a person, and > that the Cc: field has the purpose to let others know that a reply was > sent and what was said. I usually think exactly the other way. If something was sent to a DISCUSSION LIST it is to trigger discussion. Reply to poster (ONLY) should be the exception (e.g. to prevent flame wars, or to send "me too" messages uninteresting on the list. In the latter case only the poster should receive the reply, no Cc: to the list. Reply to poster and Cc: to the list has often the unwanted side effect that one receives two copies of the reply (eventually at different times if one is subscribed to the list in digest mode). I find that rather annoying. Specially when further discussion partners do not edit the header so I receive two copies even of the replies sent by other list members to the member who replied to me ... :-( Of all the mailing list I used, there was only one where reply to list was discouraged (actually forbidden) by the rules. This was the tru64-managers list, which was intended as a sort of distributed help line (and worked very nicely). One sent a request, all replies were sent to him, and he was formally obliged to post an edited summary at the end. But this was enforced not by software (or not totally by software ... I believe that Re: replies not containing a [SUMMARY] tag were filtered out by software), but by an human moderator. Therefore I'd second an Alpine patch to send the reply to the list (eventually customizable by list address ?), without fudging with Yes/No/Yes reply before composing or with ^k ^k ^u ^k header editing afterwards. From lucio at lambrate.inaf.it Tue Jan 17 01:08:24 2012 From: lucio at lambrate.inaf.it (Lucio Chiappetti) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] reply to all In-Reply-To: <20120116213759.109560@gmx.com> References: <20120116213759.109560@gmx.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Jan 2012, Eduardo Chappa wrote: > Pierre, > ??It seems that your suggestion would make mailing list be treated as > newsgroups. Exactly ! That is just what I think (in addition to the fact that I think Email and News should be handled by the same client, and that is one of the main reasons why I like alpiNE [note capitalization :-)]) ... it's a pity that: (a) many people I know never did the move to Usenet newsgroups in the past; (b) Usenet newsgroups with their uniform and user-chosen interface are unfortunately being replaced by a maze of little forums all different :-( Concerning the other remark that we do not want another Yes/No question to be replied before composing, that could be avoided if the additional customizable behaviour would be controlled by two keywords: Handle-mailing-lists-as-newsgroups = [yes] Recognised-mailing-lists = list of addresses From pierre.frenkiel at gmail.com Tue Jan 17 02:08:48 2012 From: pierre.frenkiel at gmail.com (Pierre Frenkiel) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] reply to all In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 17 Jan 2012, Lucio Chiappetti wrote: > . . . > If something was sent to a DISCUSSION LIST it is to trigger discussion. Reply > to poster (ONLY) should be the exception (e.g. to prevent flame wars, or to > send "me too" messages uninteresting on the list. In the latter case only the > poster should receive the reply, no Cc: to the list. > . . . hi Lucio, It's exactly what I planned to post. Thank you for making it very clear. That seemed obvious to me (even if it is not to everybody) Replying "n" or to the question "Reply to all recipients" is not so diffcult. For a reply to the list, the Cc; to the poster is actually useless, as the 1st line of the quoted text clearly identifies the poster you are replying to -- Pierre Frenkiel From mbmiller+l at gmail.com Tue Jan 17 08:18:52 2012 From: mbmiller+l at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] reply to all In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I thought I sent this earlier and I even wrote messages about this message. Oops. See below. To me that scheme makes sense. --Mike Usually I want to reply to the list alone. If I could configure Alpine so that ryy sent only to the list, that would be nice. I'm constantly using ryy to reply: r (Reply) Include original message in Reply (using "> ")? y Reply to all recipients? y If I could change settings so that when the message had been sent via a list, then the second prompt was this... Reply to list only? ...but that could work very well for me. Then ryy would almost always do for me what I want. To get the current behavior, I would type ryn, and that would then return to the ordinary series of prompts: Reply to all recipients? etc. We could have an option like this: [ ] enable reply to list only Mike From unrtst at gmail.com Tue Jan 17 09:04:27 2012 From: unrtst at gmail.com (Joshua Miller) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] reply to all In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 11:18 AM, Mike Miller wrote: > I thought I sent this earlier and I even wrote messages about this > message. Oops. See below. To me that scheme makes sense. --Mike > > > Usually I want to reply to the list alone. If I could configure Alpine so > that ryy sent only to the list, that would be nice. I'm constantly using > ryy to reply: > > r (Reply) > Include original message in Reply (using "> ")? y > Reply to all recipients? y > > I'm surprised no one has mentioned Roles yet. It's not as simple of a solution (have to setup a role for each list instead of just a checkbox) but, once setup, it will just work. I tested one using the following, and the results are functionally what is being requested: MSRRA (main, setup, roles, rule, add) Nickname: alpine-info-replyall Add Extra Headers List-Id List-Id pattern = Alpine Discussion Forum Set Reply-To = Alpine Info List Set Other Hdrs = To: Alpine Info List , Cc: Reply Use = Without confirmation Forward Use = With confirmation Compose Use = Never In use, it's: ry^ty For reply, yes to all, to roles, select role, yes to use role. I have my config set to always prompt for confirmation of role use. If you turn that off, it should be: ryy Note, in the above, I also overrode the Reply-To. That's not needed nor what was requested, but seems like a good addition if you don't want to get direct replies to your own messages. It results in a compose screen of: Reply-To: Alpine Info List To : Alpine Info List Cc : Attchmnt: Subject : Re: [Alpine-info] reply to all ----- Message Text ----- The only downside I see is that you have to setup the above for each list you use. I don't see any way to set the "To:" to a value based on the original message, so the role isn't a generic fit for any list response. There may be a way to do that using templates or a filter though... I haven't messed with them much, so I can't say either way. That said, after you create one of those, it'd trivial to open up the .pinerc in an editor and cp/paste the role and modify it quickly for all the rest of your lists. Even if you have to do the ^T to choose the role, it's still less typing than ^k on to, move down, ^k on CC, move up, and ^u back into To, and would let you set any other odd stuff while you're at it (custom .sig, reply-to, other headers, etc). HTH, -- Josh I. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From book at kaapeli.fi Tue Jan 17 10:27:52 2012 From: book at kaapeli.fi (Mikael Book) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] How to make Alpine recognize .doc, .odt,.docx again? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks, Mirko, for your advice. My /etc/mailcap had no lines about .doc, .docx and .odt so I added the following three lines: application/MSWORD; /opt/libreoffice3.4/program/swriter '%s'; "$DISPLAY" application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document /opt/libreoffice3.4/program/swriter '%s';$ application/vnd.oasis.opendocument.text; /opt/libreoffice3.4/program/swriter '%s'; "$DISPLAY" It works for .doc and .odt, but not for .docx. But that's not Alpine's fault, I guess. Mikael Mikael B??k * book@kaapeli.fi * gsm +358(0)-44 5511 324 * http://www.kaapeli.fi/book/ * http://blogi.kaapeli.fi/book/ * http://blog.spinellisfootsteps.info/ On Tue, 17 Jan 2012, Mirko Hessel-von Molo wrote: > On Tue, 17 Jan 2012, Mikael B????k wrote: > > > > > Hi, > > > > when I receive a pdf-file, or a jpg-file, Alpine recognizes it and activates > > an external viewer application. I wish it did the same with .doc, .docx and > > .odt. As far as I remember, it actually did, as long as I used Open Office. > > But it no longer does, since I changed to Libre Office. > > > > How to make Alpine recognize .doc, .odt,.docx again? > > Either in your /etc/mailcap or in ~/.mailcap you have lines that tell > alpine to start openoffice for opening .doc .docx and so on. Change the > paths to the ooo executable in those lines to the libreoffice > executables, and it should work again. You can change the latter as > yourself, to change the former (system-wide mailcap configuration) you > need to act as root: eg. via > > sudo vim /etc/mailcap > > (sudo means "do this as superuser", vim is my favorite editor). > > Best, Mirko From ruskie at codemages.net Tue Jan 17 11:37:10 2012 From: ruskie at codemages.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andra=C5=BE_'ruskie'_Levstik?=) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] How to make Alpine recognize .doc, .odt,.docx again? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: :2012-01-17T20:27:Mikael Book: > It works for .doc and .odt, but not for .docx. But that's not Alpine's fault, > I guess. Use this: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document; or application/octet-stream; swriter %s; nametemplate=%s.docx; -- Andra? 'ruskie' Levstik Source Mage GNU/Linux Games/Xorg grimoire guru Re-Alpine Coordinator http://sourceforge.net/projects/re-alpine/ Geek/Hacker/Tinker Waiting for the computer to reboot. ? From mattack at apple.com Tue Jan 17 11:50:27 2012 From: mattack at apple.com (Matt Ackeret) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] How to make Alpine recognize .doc, .odt, .docx again? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Jan 2012, Mirko Hessel-von Molo wrote: >Either in your /etc/mailcap or in ~/.mailcap you have lines that tell >alpine to start openoffice for opening .doc .docx and so on. Change the I probably knew this in the past.. Currently my ~/.mailcap has: Image/*; open -a Preview %s Application/PDF; open -a Preview %s (which I guess I added in the past?) Mac OS X has had the 'open' command for a long time now (and you see those are actually using open, but telling it an app to use). It's essentially equivalent to double-clicking on the file in the Finder. So can I do: */*; open %s to hopefully solve everything? and if I put that at the end, would it be overridden by any others I had before (maybe one for URLs? I seem to have weird problems trying to open URLs from alpine, so end up copying/pasting most of the time, which is a pain, since most URLs are gigantic and I have to thus make the window huge, then small again)? Are there any safety concerns about this I'm not thinking of? I don't think so, since as I said, it's basically the same as me double-clicking on a file, and it asks me if I want to open it.. and e.g. a script won't be executable, so it won't run (I think). From ruskie at codemages.net Tue Jan 17 11:59:28 2012 From: ruskie at codemages.net (=?UTF-8?Q?Andra=C5=BE_'ruskie'_Levstik?=) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] How to make Alpine recognize .doc, .odt, .docx again? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: :2012-01-17T11:50:Matt Ackeret: > Are there any safety concerns about this I'm not thinking of? I don't > think so, since as I said, it's basically the same as me double-clicking on > a file, and it asks me if I want to open it.. and e.g. a script won't > be executable, so it won't run (I think). A script doesn't need to be executable. Just passed to the interpreter to run. ;) -- Andra? 'ruskie' Levstik Source Mage GNU/Linux Games/Xorg grimoire guru Re-Alpine Coordinator http://sourceforge.net/projects/re-alpine/ Geek/Hacker/Tinker Ryle hira. From mattack at apple.com Tue Jan 17 12:16:19 2012 From: mattack at apple.com (Matt Ackeret) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] How to make Alpine recognize .doc, .odt, .docx again? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 17 Jan 2012, Andra? 'ruskie' Levstik wrote: >A script doesn't need to be executable. Just passed to the interpreter >to run. ;) You're right, but I guess it looks like the default is to open these in Xcode, so I seem to be safe anyway: (ackema) /Network/Servers/harris/Volumes/haus/mattack % cd /tmp (ackema) /tmp % cat > blah #!/bin/tcsh echo blah (ackema) /tmp % ./blah ./blah: Permission denied. (ackema) /tmp % open blah -> it opened in Xcode (ackema) /tmp % mv blah blah.sh (ackema) /tmp % open blah.sh -> it opened in Xcode (yeah I know I said .sh, and it's a tcsh script.. I didn't remember offhand if there was a .csh or .tcsh standard extension..) From pierre.frenkiel at gmail.com Wed Jan 18 02:14:27 2012 From: pierre.frenkiel at gmail.com (Pierre Frenkiel) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] reply to all In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 17 Jan 2012, Joshua Miller wrote: > I'm surprised no one has mentioned Roles yet. It's not as simple of a > solution (have to setup a role for each list instead of just a checkbox) > but, once setup, it will just work. > hi Joshua, It's actually surprising, as with your very clear instructions for the role settings it works perfectly. I imagine that to add roles for other lists, editing the patterns-roles line in .pinerc is even easier. Thank you. -- Pierre Frenkiel From pierre.frenkiel at gmail.com Wed Jan 18 02:21:23 2012 From: pierre.frenkiel at gmail.com (Pierre Frenkiel) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] reply to all In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 17 Jan 2012, Joshua Miller wrote: > In use, it's: ry^ty > For reply, yes to all, to roles, select role, yes to use role. One problem remains: when typing rn, I still get the reply to the list, and not to the poster. -- Pierre Frenkiel From pierre.frenkiel at gmail.com Wed Jan 18 05:17:05 2012 From: pierre.frenkiel at gmail.com (Pierre Frenkiel) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] reply to all In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Jan 2012, Pierre Frenkiel wrote: > One problem remains: when typing rn, I still get the reply to the list, > and not to the poster. I found the explanation: I had: [x] Reply Always Uses Reply-To I removed this setting, and, for the role config, set: Reply use: With confirmation With these settings: ryy ==> To: the list rnnn ==> To: the poster rnyn ==> To: the poster / Cc: to the list -- Pierre Frenkiel From lucio at lambrate.inaf.it Tue Jan 24 03:23:18 2012 From: lucio at lambrate.inaf.it (Lucio Chiappetti) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] reply to all In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 17 Jan 2012, Joshua Miller wrote: > I'm surprised no one has mentioned Roles yet. ... > I tested one using the following, ... > > MSRRA (main, setup, roles, rule, add) > Nickname: alpine-info-replyall > Add Extra Headers > List-Id > List-Id pattern = Alpine Discussion Forum I tried that on some OLD messages of the alpine list, and with my original pinerc (Reply Always Uses Reply-To unticked and role with Reply Use = Without confirmation), and it works with the following sequences: ryy or rny ==> To: the list rynn or rnnn ==> To: the poster ryny or rnny ==> To: the poster / Cc: to the list So it SEEMS acceptable. I haven't tried to play with "Key Definition Rules" (I believe they are in one of Eduardo Chappa patches, I use them for other purposes) to see whether I can define a SINGLE key instead of ryy. BUT I have another problem. The rule testing on List-Id DOES NOT WORK on RECENT messages of the alpine list (and won't work on the majority of the mailing lists I am subscribed to) because I elected to receive the lists in MIME DIGEST MODE, Incidentally one of the way I use key definition rules is just to type a single D to automagically expand a mime digest into a "temporary" folder, where I can then access any Message/RFC822 part as an individual e-mail. But these messages do not have the List-Id keyword !!!! So they won't trigger the rule. I guess the solution would be to use the To field instead of List-Id -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Lucio Chiappetti - INAF/IASF - via Bassini 15 - I-20133 Milano (Italy) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mit der Dummheit kampfen Against stupidity the gods Gotter selbst vergebens. themselves contend in vain (F.Schiller, Die Jungfrau von Orleans, III, 6 & I.Asimov) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ For more info : http://www.iasf-milano.inaf.it/~lucio/personal.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From guziemic.spam at gmail.com Fri Jan 27 01:21:52 2012 From: guziemic.spam at gmail.com (Michal G.) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Compile Alpine as .so file with API for other GUI on ARM device Message-ID: Hi, I've been investigating a possibility of Alpine cross-compilation for Linux X-less device (ARM) and use it as dynamic library that will provide me possibility to expose API that could be utilize by HMI layer. 1) Is it possible to compile Alpine without any text user interface (pure ?headless)? Or how much work would that require? 2) Does Alpine architecture allows doing such split ? mail supporting functionality and GUI? 3) Is it possible to eliminate all unnecessary libs and resources? They?re using valuable device resources and may cause compilation problems. 4) If I?m about hacking the build process to my needs (removing dependencies) where should I start? Best regards, Michal Guzieniuk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mattack at apple.com Fri Jan 27 10:43:28 2012 From: mattack at apple.com (Matt Ackeret) Date: Tue Jun 12 15:14:52 2018 Subject: [Alpine-info] Compile Alpine as .so file with API for other GUI on ARM device In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Jan 2012, Michal G. wrote: >2) Does Alpine architecture allows doing such split ? mail supporting >functionality and GUI? There's a whole separate library (which I think may be licensed differently) that does the mail getting.. This I think is just mail server interaction, not at all any of the display/interpreting, but I could be wrong.